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Growingforfun
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Anyone want to offer advice
#24182740 - 03/22/17 10:02 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Hello all, a friend is playin around and while I used to know some stuff I forgot most of it He made 30 1/2 pint pf tek jars, and put them in a clean dark area, fast forward 20 days and he takes a peak, only half done. So he is getting impatient an worried, and then he decides that he put them in the coldest part of the whole house without thinking about it. 65 on average. So he moves them to about an 85-90 area. I started doing lots of reading here and saw that was actually a really bad move so i warned him about stressing out the mycelium and all the risks. So he checks the jars and they are 90% but the walls have beads of moisture on every single jar. Im assuming its motabiltes only, since he didnt mention any smell or off colors. He put every jar back upside down. The jars were moved to an area that is a steady 80f.
The plan had been to spawn to coir with gypsum, but im worried about bacterial infection from the high heat. I expect things should be colinized or very near it at this point but im telling him to wait till the end of the month to hope for 100% to the core mycelium.
Question is can a potential bacterial infection be fought off? Is spawning these cakes to coir a bad idea?
Thanks in advance, im happy to read up if someone has a good thread to link as well.
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van hatton
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-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said: Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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mushpunx
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Not fight off, no.
Why did you put your cakes upside down? I'm assuming that's what you mean, that you put them with the lids/dry vermiculite barrier down?
The room that stays close to 65 is the best place to keep colonizing jars, 80° is still pretty warm IMO . Fruiting at those temps are fine though.
As for spawning to coir, its up to you. I think cakes do well as cakes but they do work spawned to bulk substrates.
You can drop the "my friend" bit though it won't offer you any legal protection in the slightest. Everyone can see right thru that after school special routine
-------------------- Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushpunx]
#24182824 - 03/22/17 10:34 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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They were flipped so that the moisture would not settle to the bottom of the jars and make a soggy zone that wouldnt colonize. Im sure he wouldnt have done that if the moisture wasnt around.
So no way to help them out other than to do better next time? Fair enough
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mushpunx
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Well don't flip your jars back over.
The dry vermiculite barrier at the top (you did use one right?) Is there to act as a barrier against contamination. If you disturb it too much or flip the jars back over once they've been flipped upside down,it can knock the dirty verm down and possibly contaminate uncolonized portions.
-------------------- Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushpunx]
#24182999 - 03/22/17 11:39 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Yes a dry verm layer was used and the plan was to leave them upside down while opening them. And to open them in a as clean as easily possible area, lysol, then work inside a Still Air Box.
Assuming the primary goal is to spawn these jars to bulk, would it be a better plan to spawn each jar individually to lets say a quart worth of sub or would it be better to combine jars and go with closer to a 1:1 ratio spawn:bulk and count on faster colinization?
Any jars smelling funky would be tossed right off the bat before any transfer.
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stardune
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Quote:
Growingforfun said: Assuming the primary goal is to spawn these jars to bulk, would it be a better plan to spawn each jar individually to lets say a quart worth of sub or would it be better to combine jars and go with closer to a 1:1 ratio spawn:bulk and count on faster colinization?
A quart is WAYYY too much per jar.
Keep in mind that PFjars are already 2:1 Verm/brf. One pfjar to a quart of sub is like, a 1:12 brf/sub ratio. Super weak not gonna work. (I mean, it might work, but it will take a long time and be weak.)
1:1 PFcake/coir should be the weakest you go. You can do 1.5:1 and you that will be fine too.
Shoeboxes are what you should make. 6-8 jars per box.
Edited by stardune (03/22/17 01:20 PM)
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: stardune]
#24183307 - 03/22/17 01:25 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
stardune said:
Quote:
Growingforfun said: Assuming the primary goal is to spawn these jars to bulk, would it be a better plan to spawn each jar individually to lets say a quart worth of sub or would it be better to combine jars and go with closer to a 1:1 ratio spawn:bulk and count on faster colinization?
A quart is WAYYY too much per jar.
Keep in mind that PFjars are already 2:1 Verm/brf. One pfjar to a quart of sub is like, a 1:12 brf/sub ratio. Super weak not gonna work. (I mean, it might work, but it will take a long time and be weak.)
1:1 PFcake/coir should be the weakest you go. You can do 1.5:1 and you that will be fine too.
Shoeboxes are what you should make. 6-8 jars per box.
Whats others opinions on this? A half pint to a quart didnt seem crazy to me but if it is i def wont do it. Thanks. Whatcha mean by shoe boxes can you link me to a related thread.
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mushpunx
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: stardune]
#24183308 - 03/22/17 01:26 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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No need to spawn to bulk in a still air box its not sterile work
-------------------- Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushpunx]
#24183321 - 03/22/17 01:32 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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ive spawned in a SAB once. the tray went green anyway because the spawn was fucked.
i did more like a 1:3 when i did cakes to coco
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushpunx]
#24183339 - 03/22/17 01:36 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said: No need to spawn to bulk in a still air box its not sterile work
Thought everything up to pins should be kept as clean as possible. Maybe not sterile but def try to keep any airflow down an anything living in the air killed, up till pins. I mean.. wouldnt it be better to be as clean as possible for best odds?
If you have a link to a thread I can educate myself with that would be great.
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mushboy
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clean as possible and sterile are opposite ends of it.
you can be clean with your spawning but its not going to change the fact that the second you open the jars to spawn they are exposed to the horrible dirty world.
i do most my spawning in my living room because it has the most open floor space without carpets so clean up is easy. but i have 4 cats being noisy shit heads all the time so it would be impossible for me to grow if it needed to be sterile up to pins.
it needs to be sterile during colonizing of the grains. thats it.(and clean inoculate/agar but thats another topic)
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Growingforfun
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Maybe what your saying is, the coir/verm/gypson wont be the source of the contam if it happens, it will be my brf cakes.
Gotcha.
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Blag-oh-mox
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushboy]
#24183360 - 03/22/17 01:41 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Yes, you can fight off the bacteria infection like I did. I pierced the foil lid to make 'air holes', bacteria hates oxygen, so by allowing air into the jar, the virus will die. See pics below, the green blob is bacterillium dying off and the pink patch is last surviving bacteria which will be dead in 24 hours
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CapnZ
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Quote:
Growingforfun said: Maybe what your saying is, the coir/verm/gypson wont be the source of the contam if it happens, it will be my brf cakes.
Gotcha.
Exactamundo. That is highly more probable.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Blag-oh-mox]
#24183366 - 03/22/17 01:43 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said: Yes, you can fight off the bacteria infection like I did. I pierced the foil lid to make 'air holes', bacteria hates oxygen, so by allowing air into the jar, the virus will die. See pics below, the green blob is bacterillium dying off and the pink patch is last surviving bacteria which will be dead in 24 hours
bacteria and viruses are 2 different things you kno?
wtf is this nonsense. please never do this. ever.
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Blag-oh-mox]
#24183373 - 03/22/17 01:44 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said: Yes, you can fight off the bacteria infection like I did. I pierced the foil lid to make 'air holes', bacteria hates oxygen, so by allowing air into the jar, the virus will die. See pics below, the green blob is bacterillium dying off and the pink patch is last surviving bacteria which will be dead in 24 hours
Dude that shit looks like a bio-hazard. Your fuckin with ne right?
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Mycolorado
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Blag-oh-mox]
#24183381 - 03/22/17 01:47 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said: Yes, you can fight off the bacteria infection like I did. I pierced the foil lid to make 'air holes', bacteria hates oxygen, so by allowing air into the jar, the virus will die. See pics below, the green blob is bacterillium dying off and the pink patch is last surviving bacteria which will be dead in 24 hours
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stardune
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Quote:
Growingforfun said:
Quote:
stardune said:
Quote:
Growingforfun said: Assuming the primary goal is to spawn these jars to bulk, would it be a better plan to spawn each jar individually to lets say a quart worth of sub or would it be better to combine jars and go with closer to a 1:1 ratio spawn:bulk and count on faster colinization?
A quart is WAYYY too much per jar.
Keep in mind that PFjars are already 2:1 Verm/brf. One pfjar to a quart of sub is like, a 1:12 brf/sub ratio. Super weak not gonna work. (I mean, it might work, but it will take a long time and be weak.)
1:1 PFcake/coir should be the weakest you go. You can do 1.5:1 and you that will be fine too.
Shoeboxes are what you should make. 6-8 jars per box.
Whats others opinions on this? A half pint to a quart didnt seem crazy to me but if it is i def wont do it. Thanks. Whatcha mean by shoe boxes can you link me to a related thread.
It didn't seem crazy to you because you don't know what you're doing. It's not 'crazy' its just ignorant so don't do it. 1:1 is what you want to do. PFjars are not the same as grains. Grains are 100%ish nutrition. PFjars are 33%ish nutrition. Spawning ratios need to be adjusted accordingly. If people generally do 1:4, 1:3 or 1:2 with grains, then with PFjars you would do....(this is like, 6th grade math btw.) What you would NOT do is something that works out roughly to 1:12.
Just do 1:1. Make a few different colonies so that when something fails you aren't totally fucked.
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Germs
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Blag-oh-mox]
#24183458 - 03/22/17 02:10 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said: Yes, you can fight off the bacteria infection like I did. I pierced the foil lid to make 'air holes', bacteria hates oxygen, so by allowing air into the jar, the virus will die. See pics below, the green blob is bacterillium dying off and the pink patch is last surviving bacteria which will be dead in 24 hours
Looks like lung cancer waiting to happen
--------------------
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Germs]
#24183473 - 03/22/17 02:15 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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i have those same glasses in my cupboard.
they hold things like milk and juice really well.
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: stardune]
#24183513 - 03/22/17 02:26 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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So according to what you said above, that you have to adjust for the brf only being half the volume and to do 1:1 i take that as you saying it will take 2 pf cakes to do 1/2 pint of bulk sub. Can you confirm thats what you mean and a link to a thread? I admit I dont know much, and I know its not ideal to use pf cakes but it does seem pointless to do that ratio of 2 cakes per half pint of bulk sub. Would it be better in your opinion to spawn to wbs 1:1, then wbs to bulk?
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mushboy
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thats the draw back of pf to bulk.
its just not enough spawn to make it worth it.
if you have 6quarts of wbs thats 6 quarts of bulk to for 12 total. thats a shit load.
but whos going to grow 6 quarts worth of half pints for every monotub. the metrics would be insane.
doing 20 mono tubs at 4 pf cakes per quart so 4x6. thats 24 half pints per mono times 20 is 480 half pints??
480 pf cakes is fucking insane
Edited by mushboy (03/22/17 02:52 PM)
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushboy]
#24183568 - 03/22/17 02:44 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Just trying to be clear, your saying the next step should be to fruit the pf cakes as is, to to trasfer to WBS then bulk.
But not to go cakes to bulk. Period.
Is that right?
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mushboy
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Quote:
Growingforfun said: Just trying to be clear, your saying the next step should be to fruit the pf cakes as is, to to trasfer to WBS then bulk.
nooo. i said its not efficient to spawn cakes to bulk but you can.
never said to transfer to wbs. i mean you could and ive seen it done. but i wouldnt.
next step is either fruiting cakes as cakes or spawn to an equal amount of coco...which isnt much. hence the efficiency thing.
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushboy]
#24183625 - 03/22/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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And then that pf-> coir could be transfered to more coir at a more regular ratio?
The goal is to spawn to bulk sub.
Seems like I read about people knockin up quarts of WBS with a spore syringe an things going well often enough. Maybe thats the answer? And a quart is a shitton more than a half pint. Would take a whole transfer out of the equation. In theory at least.
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mushboy
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if you true goal is spawning to bulk you will learn pf wont cut it. thats what im telling you.
Quote:
Seems like I read about people knockin up quarts of WBS with a spore syringe an things going well often enough. Maybe thats the answer?
no not quite. syringes to grains is risky for tons of reasons. basically dont do it. spores to agar, make sure the inoclate is clean. do whatever you want with it after than. dropping clean agar in a wbss master jar would be what i do..
Quote:
And a quart is a shitton more than a half pint. Would take a whole transfer out of the equation. In theory at least.
??? not sure what you mean but.. what? you mean a quart of pf cake? it wont colonize.
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushboy]
#24183702 - 03/22/17 03:26 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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What I ment was that a quart of WBS os a ton more than a 1/2 pint pf jar. I just take pf jars as 1/2 pints only cuz thats the tek.
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mushboy
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doing pf is larger jars besides half pints can lead to issues. you can do pints(i have) but doing larger pf jars just wont work.
anyone even have a pic of a colonized quart sized pf jar? i dont think ive ever seen it.
still not sure what you mean, but yes. a quart of wbs is way more than a pint of pf.
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: mushboy]
#24183739 - 03/22/17 03:39 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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First, thanks for taking the time.
Heres what I mean. What Im hearing from you is that pf jars arnt much good for anything exept to fruit as is. If the goal is to is to spawn to bulk, is it better to just start over with WBS in a quart jar? Granted its closer to a pint of wbs. Or, would it be fine to spawm the pf jars to a small amount of coir, then from there to more coir.
If its best just to fruit the cakes and start over with wbs then that would seem like the next step.
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stardune
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If you've already made PFjars and they are clean and strong the best thing to do is:
Make some Bucket Tek sub. Let it cool.
Thoroughly mix bucket tek sub with well crumbled cakes.
1:1. SIMPLE. Don't overthink it. For every cup of crumbled cake, add a cup of bulk sub.
Make several trays or shoeboxes. 6-8 cakes (and the appropriate amount of coir) works great in a sterilite shoebox. Add a 1/8-1/4 inch 'casing' layer to the top of your level substrate. Do not make a big monotub. Eggs and baskets and all.
By spawning your cakes to the coir you just doubled the mass of your grow. 1:1 might seem wimpy but its actually really awesome compared to 1 to nothing. You should more than double your weight compared to whole, unspawned cakes. Considering that bucket tekking some coir is way easier and cheaper than making the same amount of cakes, you're really getting a lot of 'bang' for your 'buck', and return for your effort!
I find that fruiting trays is super easy and takes less 'dialing in' than fruiting cakes whole. I'm honestly surprised that the notion still lingers that whole naked cakes is the 'easiest' way to grow mushrooms.
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: stardune]
#24183915 - 03/22/17 04:46 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
stardune said: If you've already made PFjars and they are clean and strong the best thing to do is:
Make some Bucket Tek sub. Let it cool.
Thoroughly mix bucket tek sub with well crumbled cakes.
1:1. SIMPLE. Don't overthink it. For every cup of crumbled cake, add a cup of bulk sub.
Make several trays or shoeboxes. 6-8 cakes (and the appropriate amount of coir) works great in a sterilite shoebox. Add a 1/8-1/4 inch 'casing' layer to the top of your level substrate. Do not make a big monotub. Eggs and baskets and all.
By spawning your cakes to the coir you just doubled the mass of your grow. 1:1 might seem wimpy but its actually really awesome compared to 1 to nothing. You should more than double your weight compared to whole, unspawned cakes. Considering that bucket tekking some coir is way easier and cheaper than making the same amount of cakes, you're really getting a lot of 'bang' for your 'buck', and return for your effort!
I find that fruiting trays is super easy and takes less 'dialing in' than fruiting cakes whole. I'm honestly surprised that the notion still lingers that whole naked cakes is the 'easiest' way to grow mushrooms.
Everything youve said here is pretty much what i had thought as well. So far the cakes look good besides for the beads on water on the sides, that i believe are metabolites from the stress of heat. Everything is white, and had seemed to have grown much faster in the heated area vs the cool area. If it wasnt for the moisture on the jars walls they wouldnt have been moved. They have been in the medium area for 3 days and they are being left alone for a couple more days.
Spawning one to one had seemed good enough, coir/verm+ using water cooler. Then taking that and spawning 1:1 or 1:4 to more coir/verm+ with the first to finish and fruit the rest.
However... mushboy gave me the impression that was a bad move, and fruiting the pf jar was pretty much the only option.
I know its important to have the best spawn possible and i believe thats the gist of the point muchboy is making.
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Growingforfun
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Wanted to post an update.
Had some time to read so I read up on the shoeboxes, and i think its a good way to go! Thanks mushboy! the bod bucket tek, with coir, verm an gypsom still for sub.
Every single 1/2 pint is looking really good, 19 were 100% today so they were moved from the others who were all 90%+ these have been set in another area to consolidate for 3 days.
When 3 day are up the idea is to use a ninga blender to turn these cakes into power and spawn to bulk at around a quart per cake, making a 1:4 ratio.
Every time anything was looked at lots of lysol spray the room and shower before then more lysol again then look, then spray lysol in the "incubator tote" (its just someplace to put them that stacks, not heated)
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Marmie
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Id just use the regular side of a cheesegrater , i do it often works great, always get 5 day spawn runs ,less if using more cakes, ive never used a ninja blender for it but i would think itd beat the myc up to much n cause a delay or unecesary energy spent repairing itself , i dno tho jst thinkin , good luck man, let us kno how it goes for ya
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Marmie]
#24190191 - 03/24/17 08:50 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Marmie said: Id just use the regular side of a cheesegrater , i do it often works great, always get 5 day spawn runs ,less if using more cakes, ive never used a ninja blender for it but i would think itd beat the myc up to much n cause a delay or unecesary energy spent repairing itself , i dno tho jst thinkin , good luck man, let us kno how it goes for ya
I am hoping for experianced feedback on the blender. I had read a jurnal/thread about someone doing it to really good results and fast colinization speed. I know some people like the ziplock bag or cheesegrater method but the idea is the more surface area the better. If I'm wrong on that and its too abusive lemme know TC's
There will also be a layer of PC'd verm added to the bottom and top. These will be thin substrates 8 assume if the plan is a bit over a qt of sub in a 6 qt shoebox. A bit of verm on bottom "should" help speed things along from what ive read.
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Marmie
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If you do 5 cakes to a quart of sub per shoebox grate or blend ull get a fast colonization either way , are you going to blend with water ? Or jst blend it dry,,
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Growingforfun
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Marmie]
#24190282 - 03/24/17 09:21 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Marmie said: If you do 5 cakes to a quart of sub per shoebox grate or blend ull get a fast colonization either way , are you going to blend with water ? Or jst blend it dry,,
But the goal its to only use one cake per qt of sub. It seems like it shouldnt be a big issue, because coir and verm seem had to contam. I assume.
No water just a quick buzz. I figure it can be cleaned easily beforhand and has to benefit of very quick work. It should be possible to prepare each shoebox with a qt of spawn, buzz a jar, add jar to shoebox, mix, and dump over a shoebox with a layer of verm. If done in a clean room i dont see issues. I hope.
Sure maybe some may not make it, but that's the reason to go shoeboxes right? Figure a 1:4 ratio will beat 1:1 even if half turn green.
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Josh.0
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Blag-oh-mox]
#24190505 - 03/24/17 11:19 PM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said:
It's a fukin contam rainbow in there
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Ziran
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Josh.0]
#24190571 - 03/24/17 11:53 PM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Josh.0 said:
Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said:
It's a fukin contam rainbow in there
Kill it with fire.
-------------------- Song Of Healing Updated Pf Tek Guide Ziran's Teks AMU Q&A Thread The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.
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Leftfield420
bong toker
Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 10,068
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Ziran]
#24190673 - 03/25/17 12:59 AM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Josh.0 said:
Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said:
It's a fukin contam rainbow in there
Quote:
Ziran said:
Quote:
Josh.0 said:
Quote:
Blag-oh-mox said:
It's a fukin contam rainbow in there
Kill it with fire.
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Growingforfun
Stranger
Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 84
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Blag-oh-mox wins thread derail award
Edited by Growingforfun (03/25/17 10:25 AM)
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Dyn-A-Mite
Awakened
Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 218
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: Anyone want to offer advice [Re: Blag-oh-mox]
#24191404 - 03/25/17 10:15 AM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Jesus man don't even worry about pressure cooking that jar to kill everything in it. Just toss the whole damn thing into the depths of hell!
I threw up in my mouth a little when I seen this .
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