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Snazz
Polymath
Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#24685210 - 10/05/17 06:45 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think it's all about the mCΔt
Water has a far better coefficient for energy exchange (takes less joules per second to raise a degree). Air has a shit coefficient.
Pressure is just raising the boiling point of water by a little.
Thanks for the writeup. Pretty sure some of my early failures were due to improper venting
Edited by Snazz (10/05/17 07:06 AM)
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: Snazz]
#24685371 - 10/05/17 08:52 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I had an old tuttnauer autoclave that took just as long to go from 70-247 as it did from 247 to 250. And its half the volume of the presto 23q. It would sit there and pump in steam then the vacuum pump would run.
It could tell there was a discrepancy between the probe temp and the pressure reading.
That part was cut off of my post where i ended it with a random B
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#24685425 - 10/05/17 09:22 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#24685856 - 10/05/17 12:23 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Steam does have more energy per volume than air at the same temperature. But it is temperature that equalizes over time, and it is temperature, not steam, that sterilizes.
actually it's the steam that sterilizes. not the temperature. 250F steam is like getting punched by a linebacker 250F air is like getting hit with a feather. the steam carries dramatically more energy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_heat_sterilization you can't put something in an oven at 250 and sterilize it.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-air-mixture-d_427.html
Quote:
If air is 250 at 15 psi, and steam is 250 at 15 psi, then admixture of any proportion is 250 at 15 psi.
the problem is that if there's air and steam in the same chamber and you keep the pressure at a constant 15psi the water won't be able to reach 250F before turning into steam. and the steam won't be 250F either.
you could super heat the steam if you had a way to apply heat to the steam rather than the water in the bottom. like side burners. super heated steam doesn't transfer energy well either. most people find that surprising. super heated steam is used to transfer steam from one place to another. it's turned into saturated steam to be used by heat exchangers since saturated steam conveys so much energy.
our water on the bottom pressure cookers actually don't achieve totally saturated (dry) steam we instead work with
Quote:
Unsaturated Steam (Wet) This is the most common form of steam actually experienced. When steam is generated using a boiler, it usually contains wetness from non-vaporized water molecules that are carried over into the distributed steam. Even the best boilers may discharge steam containing 3% to 5% wetness. As the water approaches the saturation state and begins to vaporize, some water, usually in the form of mist or droplets, is entrained in the rising steam and distributed downstream. This is one of the key reasons why separation is used to dis-entrain condensate from distributed steam.
reason being that heat is only applied to the water in the bottom of the pressure cooker. our steam is probably 5% wet or higher.
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in_dot
Shake N' Bake
Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 719
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: phatty] 1
#24686089 - 10/05/17 02:20 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
phatty said:But it is temperature that equalizes over time, and it is temperature, not steam, that sterilizes.
temperature is not a physical entity. It's a measure of thermal equilibrium, assuming we're speaking about temperature from the perspective of thermodynamics. If speaking about it from the view of statistical mechanics, then it's still just a tool to measure kinetic energy of the molecules. A measurement cannot sterilize. That's like saying the volume of something is the reason for sterilization. It is indeed the steam that does the sterilization, as bod stated above.
-------------------- Loneliness is a term used by those that aren't comfortable with themselves Once one conquers loneliness, others are never needed to find happiness
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Pizza_Magician
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Re: BOD's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#24917353 - 01/16/18 01:18 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info, got my first batch of myceleum going ATM. I'm still a bit confused about a few things though.
When I took the jars out of the pressure cooker I thought Water had gotten into the jars, but maybe it was just a bit of condensation. I had drilled 1/4 holes in the lids and stuffed them with polyfill, then flipped the lids upside down, then tightened the rings. I placed a coffee filter and aluminum foil over the lids. The foil didn't seem to make a decent seal, and it seemed like the polyfill was a bit damp after I removed the jars, but perhaps I was just imagining that they were damp? There wasn't any water on the bottom of the jars so I guess that it worked ok?
Some of the grains almost looked like they were sprouting a day after they came out of the pressure cooker, but its just the endosperm being all jellified right?
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more4u2c
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Re: BOD's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: Pizza_Magician]
#24918448 - 01/16/18 02:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pizza_Magician said: Thanks for the info, got my first batch of myceleum going ATM. I'm still a bit confused about a few things though.
When I took the jars out of the pressure cooker I thought Water had gotten into the jars, but maybe it was just a bit of condensation. I had drilled 1/4 holes in the lids and stuffed them with polyfill, then flipped the lids upside down, then tightened the rings. I placed a coffee filter and aluminum foil over the lids. The foil didn't seem to make a decent seal, and it seemed like the polyfill was a bit damp after I removed the jars, but perhaps I was just imagining that they were damp? There wasn't any water on the bottom of the jars so I guess that it worked ok?
Some of the grains almost looked like they were sprouting a day after they came out of the pressure cooker, but its just the endosperm being all jellified right?
Never heard of endosperm jellification lmfao sounds lile you just had too wet of grains inside your jars. It's not that water got I to your jars it's the water inside your grains that started to steam during the PC and some of that steam exits via your lids polyfil hole. We put the foil over so no extra water drips down and into the jars.
As for the making sure you remove all the air from the PC so that it's fully filled with steam. My little added way of doing this and Idk if this is correct or just fake news but after waiting the 10 min of steaming through weight hole I throw the weight on and let it build up to 5psi then tip the weight and let out air/steam. It actually will hiss for a few seconds before visual steam is seen so I'm assuming the hiss sound with no steam visuals is just pressurized air escaping. Once I see visual steam I let go of weight wait till it's at 5 psi then tip it over again I repeat this until the second i tip the weight over visual steam comes out immediately. My theory on this is any trapped air inside the PC will rise to the top and the steam stays at the bottom like oil/water separation old if this is true or not just my fake science thoughts but yeah do a few bleed offs of 5psi and see if it steams instantly or if u have some hissing before steam comes out
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w33dh4x
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Re: BOD's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: more4u2c] 1
#24950330 - 01/28/18 10:56 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank you for taking the time to put this together and helping me get up and running smoothly with my new PC.
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Pizza_Magician
Stranger
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Re: BOD's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: more4u2c]
#24951815 - 01/29/18 09:12 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think I will just eat the grains while I cook them to check if they are done before placing in the cooker, supposed to be somewhat soft and good?
And then I will just spread all the grains on sheet pans to get rid of the steam before placing in the PC.
I don't understand that air bleed off thing, isn't the PC bleeding off air the whole time? Or just water?
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: BOD's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: Pizza_Magician]
#24951831 - 01/29/18 09:18 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Read my pressure cooker tek
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fraufranfroufrou
Stranger
Registered: 02/01/18
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#24998154 - 02/16/18 06:44 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is there a jar prep (hole punching and tinfoil, and anything else) Tek you recommend? I didn't see one in your comprehensive list. I'm just staying this hobby and a little hazy on some details.
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JHOVA
Post whore
Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: fraufranfroufrou]
#24998160 - 02/16/18 06:53 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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fraufranfroufrou
Stranger
Registered: 02/01/18
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: JHOVA]
#24998164 - 02/16/18 06:56 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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So that is covered in foil and then PC with grains inside?
So far, my understanding of the basic process is like this:
Spore syringe to agar, agar to single PC grain jar, coir and colonized jar mixed with other PC grains in tub, grow.
Edited by fraufranfroufrou (02/16/18 07:05 AM)
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tryptkaloids
Learner
Registered: 02/08/15
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: fraufranfroufrou]
#24998167 - 02/16/18 07:00 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes. Do some reading, we aren't going to hold your hand
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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fraufranfroufrou
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: tryptkaloids]
#24998175 - 02/16/18 07:08 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: Yes. Do some reading, we aren't going to hold your hand
Obviously, that would lead to contaminants.
Edited by fraufranfroufrou (02/20/18 11:30 PM)
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tryptkaloids
Learner
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: fraufranfroufrou]
#24998261 - 02/16/18 08:32 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Once you start agar make a grow log thread so we can give more specialized advice.
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: fraufranfroufrou]
#24998268 - 02/16/18 08:33 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fraufranfroufrou said: So that is covered in foil and then PC with grains inside?
Use foil if you want to.
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fraufranfroufrou
Stranger
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#25002682 - 02/18/18 02:37 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rather not if I don't have to. I'm more into your minimalist style. Btw, been devouring your teks, great work. Very novice friendly.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: fraufranfroufrou]
#25005908 - 02/19/18 02:54 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Been working at this for 6 years now, but just started exhausting the air a few weeks ago after having read this. RTFM right... anyway I seem to have gone from nearly %100 failure to %100 success. Thanks, oh and doubly so for your oats tek,also just adopted that and it's the cheapest, fastest, and easiest grain I've tried.
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psilly the kid
Hedge wizard/ Cultist
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Re: Bod's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK [Re: Failboat]
#25006016 - 02/19/18 03:29 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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three cheers for oats
-------------------- CA weed @ all times unless specified currently this high pebbles suck its turtles all the way down
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