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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: lovelaughlibs]
    #24212124 - 04/01/17 10:30 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Haha ok whatever dude. I couldn't care less about the popularity contest, I'm talking about
how you derailed somebody's thread with 5 pages of talking about how coir isn't used as a
casing layer and saying coir accounts for the majority of a tubs nutrition :lol:

I couldn't care less about someone else's feelings, which is why I felt confident calling you out in the first place.
You can defend all you want, I'm just callin it like I see it.

Your yield in that tub has way more to do with your culture
and its ability to perform than it does the nutrition of the coir. Ask any TC and they'll
tell you the same thing :shrug: It may like a coir substrate especially and that could be why it
performed so well, but the coir's actual nutrition means very little.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #24212149 - 04/01/17 10:44 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

derailed? i think ive been quite helpful to OP...

on the other hand, i dont see what you telling me you dont like me adds to the discussion...

funny how only the people misunderstanding/mischaractarizing what i said seem to think i said anything incorrect.... your cartoon bad guy doesnt exist

seems like everyone who understands the discussion has just expanded upon it and discussed how these ideas relate to one another... which is a lot more interesting than some strawman argument about something no one thinks


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24212181 - 04/01/17 11:07 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Uh I'm  the one that originally told op to scrape off the verm casing he had in a different
thread when it wasn't doing anything :shrug:

You can keep deflecting, I'm not mad about it :cheers:

There was no misunderstanding, I quoted your exact words :lol:

LLL, hope that coir casing does a little better than the verm


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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #24212209 - 04/01/17 11:23 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
LLL, hope that coir casing does a little better than the verm



Like I say, I'm a lot happier simply because it's doing something now. 8 days of stagnation had me concerned the mycelium had just died or something. It didn't want to colonise the verm, nor knot up, nor much of anything.


--------------------
Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #24212248 - 04/01/17 11:50 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

deflecting what? i dont understand your point, other than that you dont like me...  lets talk cultivation

anyone who even remotely understands this discussion knows that:

Quote:


1. spawn is the substrate which has been decomposing the longest and most thoroughly

2. per amount of each component, spawn will provide the most nutrition in EVERY case (a larger percentage of the mycs available nutrients will have come from spawn, compared to the percentage of the bulk sub consumed, whether coir/hpoo/straw/whatever)

3. cereals are VERY dense in nutrients; we can fruit straight grain

4. cubes are 90% water, and the bulk sub is primarily for supplying this water

5. the grain spawn alone provides sufficient nutrients to fruit, so a basic recipe for success is nutrients in spawn + water in sub = fruits

6. in addition to the nutrients absorbed from the grain spawn, the myc also takes in nutrients from the bulk sub

7. proportionately, the nutrients from the sub will be smaller than the proportion of the nutrients from grain spawn (especially by the first flush), but as a percentage of the total, this will vary from very little to a lot

8. ultimately, and this is important, whether most of the total nutrients come from grain or sub doesnt necessarily affect the quality/quantity of the fruits. this is PRECISELY why you dont NEED straw/hpoo/etc to grow lots of killer fruits, the grain nutes + sub water is all you NEED

9.in any grow, the percentage of nutrients from grain vs bulk sub will ALWAYS vary between grows, and is ultimately unknowable





and when i said, as you quoted:
Quote:


coir is a LOOOOOOOONG way from non-nutritive, lots of people (like bodhi) get massive crops out of CVG alone (with most of the nutrients coming from the coir)




i was simply saying coir is nutritious for cube myc, and pointing out that the coir provides at least some of the nutrients (and can provide a LOT of nutrients), and is therefore nutritious.

as i said, "most" was not the best word choice where "largely coming from coir" would have been more clear, but if you think that constitutes some kind of "gotcha" you are completely misunderstanding what i was talking about (whether or not coir is nutritious)

if you disagree with anything, please explain why, clearly, and we can discuss it... you might just teach me something (happens every day, all day)!  im more than happy being wrong if i learn something... but id certainly appreciate a discussion about the principles involved more than a discussion of who likes who though....

Edited by c10h12n2o (04/02/17 12:12 AM)

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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24212291 - 04/02/17 12:29 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

is the thing about the coir nutrition being "locked up" in lignin true? If so, how does the mycelium use it? Is it dependent on there being an already-active colony that can break down the lignin as opposed to the easier-access nutrients of say...grain spawn (which can allow spores to germinate on it from intruder cultures)?


--------------------
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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: lovelaughlibs]
    #24212313 - 04/02/17 12:51 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

of course there is a lot to be said for the nutrients mostly coming from the grains, but certainly not all, since grows can be light on spawn and still put out  huge crops.




Light on spawn in cube cultivation is nowhere near the actual light on spawn mark. Edible
growers use a fraction of our spawn ratios, not always with supplementation, and still get
yields. We use an obscene amount of spawn in our grows.

Quote:

i dont understand why you are so upset, or sentimental about bad/outdated ideas



There is nothing bad or outdated about using coir as a casing. I case all my tubs in coir
and they come out just fine and so do a lot of cultivators here. You going around telling
people it doesn't work and has a better chance of contaminating because of acidity compared
to peat is crazy seeing as peat will contam real quick if not pasteurized correctly.

Quote:

OP cased with CVG because they completely misunderstood the difference between bulk sub and casing mix. rather than explain the difference, you confused them worse and got all pissed... you should know better V, these are the basics



Uh no OP cased with CVG because that is what they had on hand and it is perfectly fine as
a casing layer, I definitely think that if anyone is being confusing here, it's you

Quote:

if you put half as much energy into learning cultivation basics as you put into arguing with people about your feelings, youd probably have figured out how to do bulk by now



Perfect example, along with many others, of someone just jumping on the shroomery hive mind
band wagon.

I never made this a discussion about who likes who:lol:
I just said you were arguing a point that is pretty well accepted on this site to be false
and being a dick while doing it. I was just pointing that out:shrug:

Quote:

lovelaughlibs said:
is the thing about the coir nutrition being "locked up" in lignin true? If so, how does the mycelium use it? Is it dependent on there being an already-active colony that can break down the lignin as opposed to the easier-access nutrients of say...grain spawn (which can allow spores to germinate on it from intruder cultures)?



Supposedly, yes. This is why cooking it is supposed to make it more easily digestible.


--------------------

Edited by natedawgnow (04/02/17 12:53 AM)

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24212395 - 04/02/17 02:20 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

again, maybe all those logic classes fucked my head up and made me crazy but i dont see where there is an argument... if you want to try to "call someone out" as you put it, its important that you characterize what we are discussing correctly, otherwise its just a straw man... and totally not constructive

you are totally mischaracterizing what i said. i asked a question, and then discussed the various pros and cons of a highly nutritious casing vs a (comparatively) less nutritious casing... certainly never "went around telling people coir wouldnt work as a casing" :rolleyes:

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
why would you use a nutritive casing? (coir) vs a standard mix like 50/50+?

of course it might work, but please explain how it's not bad technique vs a non nutritive casing?

op needs to understand the purpose of a casing layer




discussing the pros and cons of various casing methods does not mean you cant case with coir or that it would not work.... 

you need to comprehend what you are reading before you try to "argue"

if youd read a little more slowly, and calm down a bit, i bet you could understand that the only "argument" was whether or not coir was nutritious... everything else seems to be consensus (besides proportion of nutrients from spawn vs sub, which is unknowable and variable, and seemingly not significant to yields or potency as best we can tell)

oh yeah, and whether or not a 294 gram fruit was "small", i think we disagreed about that as well :rofl:


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24212885 - 04/02/17 10:17 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

A "highly nutritious" casing would be casing with a layer of hydrated grass seed. Coir is not "highly nutritious".  We have all always known that, except apparently you.  It's why it can be pasteurized and used open-air - even "bucket tek"'d.

Frankly he's exactly right. You're acting innocent now, but you were being a massive, MASSIVE prick to me over a point you were indeed wrong to be pushing the way, and to the extent, you were, especially when the supposed experiential inferiority of using coir you keep yelling about has been confirmed not to exist by pros in this very thread.

For being so quick to pretend that the you we're responding to doesn't exist, you for one are pretending things happened that didn't, such as that I ever commented on the size of your toadstool which I did not.

It's surprising you're even trying so hard to save face now.  Just let it go man, quit while you're behind.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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Edited by Violet (04/02/17 11:39 AM)

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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24212901 - 04/02/17 10:30 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Don't bother, V.

I call this the cartman effect. Your brain literally convinces you that you are right when wrong or innocent when guilty.
Kind of like that south park episode about fish sticks when cartman
convinces jimmy that he wrote the joke even though jimmy wrote it. His ego wouldn't let him
accept that he didn't actually write it:lol:

Anyway I think that you and Bodhi are like the old married couple of cult and other members
just like to jump on the bandwagon of dogging on you.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #24213025 - 04/02/17 11:32 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

*sigh* you're, right, I shouldn't try.

Got a big kick out of the Cartman effect though! Gonna have to remember that one!

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Anyway I think that you and Bodhi are like the old married couple of cult and other members
just like to jump on the bandwagon of dogging on you.



:lol:
True as it may seem now, no matter how monstrous his post count gets, to me bodhisatta will always be the little noob who jumped on FrankHorrigan's vendetta's bandwagon, & held on for dear life!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24213039 - 04/02/17 11:43 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with Nate you guys argue like yur married :rofl: but it usually brings up decent discussion.


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: van hatton] * 1
    #24213065 - 04/02/17 11:58 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Some people are here for the right reasons. Im more focused on them :shrug:

People that state theories as facts to get noobs to coddle their egos piss me off, my problem has nothing to do with frank, you give me plenty of my own reasons to want to facepalm

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24213066 - 04/02/17 11:59 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

That would be all well and good if they made that kind of sense.

Bet let's not do this again right now.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24213074 - 04/02/17 12:02 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:



We can fine-tune materials/preparation, culture, and procedure to make the most of the mycelium's capability. This can have quite a positive effect on potency.
But is there anything we can do to straight-up boost power? Why yes, my friends, there is!

Aren't you excited?  That would be an incredible thing to implement!
Aren't you skeptical?  Many things have been tried in the name of this, and nothing has really seemed to do it.

Fortunately you don't have to stay skeptical for long! I felt that it was pointless to be skeptical, critical, hopeful, anything until I found out for myself.
An experiment is simple and easy. It may even come to feel like a magic trick once you understand it, but it is not magic at all. It is elegant in its simplicity and affords astounding results with the proper guidance.




:billymayshead:

:shamwow:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24213092 - 04/02/17 12:10 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Not everyone believes the correlation between consolidation and potency either.
(I say "either", but that's actually a part of my statement there)
That doesn't bother me either.


Want to actually discuss the biological precedents for my assertions? We can, if you want to. You're the one bringing up the topic, after all.
I've got plenty.  If you're gonna ridicule me on the topic, wouldn't I deserve a chance to defend it?


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24213097 - 04/02/17 12:12 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

It goes past that even down to style and intent

Ill let you have the last word.

Edited by bodhisatta (04/02/17 12:17 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24213098 - 04/02/17 12:13 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

So pretty much you don't like how I talk about it.

Big fuckin whoop.  Is it seriously worth all this to you?
How petty.


... and for the record this is EXACTLY FrankHorrigan's vendetta (setting aside the other part since he was shown wrong about my tek's yields potential)


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24213206 - 04/02/17 12:55 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Guys how about a new thread to discuss this? I would hate to have to lock this one for being off topic. Thanks.

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24213264 - 04/02/17 01:24 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

lol... alright, since neither of yall seem to be able to form a rational argument about mush cult, and you just keep reiterating that you dont like me.... you clearly dont read very well (but im sure you know this if youve ever taken a standardized test :lol:)

you keep talking about "face" and ego, which are not really important or interesting to those of us who came to discuss cult principles...

funny how this happens in nearly every one of Vs thread (read her back posts for a belly laugh)

she states madeup theories as if they were facts, confuses noobs to where they dont even know the difference between bulk sub and casing (PURPOSE, not MATERIAL), and then cries foul, takes it personally, and says people are being mean when people who know what they are talking about come in to try to tie up the loose ends

if frankhorrigan says youre talking out of your ass, you probably are... if bodhi has to fix nearly every post you make on the forum, you are definitely talkin out your ass... if mods have to delete your teks because they are so full of bad info, you are definitely talking out your ass... or maybe everyone is just mean and biased

dunno why you cant talk about whether or not you think coir is nutritious without being so emotional, and so emotionally invested in a discussion, callin names, callin foul every 2 seconds, calling people mean/dicks, etc... some of us are actually interested in learning, and have no emotional attachment to the discussion... it just makes you seem underage (which is even worse since you probably arent)...

i will say it again, just like i told v when she first started flippin the fuck out, "CALM DOWN" , read slower, and you can probably have this discussion like an adult... maybe....

:rofl: this reminds me so much of the people who make threads going from spores to LC, then some kind gentleman comes in and says "remember spores are filthy, LI > LC for your purposes", and then they go "YOURE FUCKIN WRONG YOU MEAN ASSHOLE!! THE LEGENDARY PASTY SAYS LCs ARE FINE!!!!!" :rofl:

its like, well yeah, if you had actually READ and COMPREHENDED pastys LC tek, you would already know this; pasty did a phenomenal job explaining the pros and cons of LI (safer) vs LC (HUGE expansion potential), and when each was called for (when making LC, use clean tissue not spores, etc)

edit: re pasty: definitely seems to be getting there, no one wants to talk cultivation. OP wanted to talk cult, so we have been talking about it over PM... i had to +5 him for stayin on topic so bloody well in the midst of all these feelings haha


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited by c10h12n2o (04/02/17 01:28 PM)

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