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InvisibleFoamy
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Guilty of drug use until proven innocent
    #24171903 - 03/18/17 11:50 AM (3 months, 7 days ago)

http://ktla.com/2017/03/15/congress-votes-to-allow-states-to-drug-test-the-unemployed-tmwsp/

Quote:

Undoing an Obama-era regulation

President Donald Trump is expected to sign off on a new law that will likely subject more unemployed Americans to drug tests before they can claim jobless benefits.

The resolution — approved by the Senate on Tuesday after passing in the House in February — nixes a Labor Department regulation that limited how many unemployment-benefit applicants states could test for drugs. The old rule, implemented under former President Barack Obama, mandated that states could only test applicants if they were looking for work in jobs that require regular drug screenings.

The repeal measure narrowly passed the Senate, 51–48, under the Congressional Review Act, which allows Congress to undo some recently implemented federal regulations with a simple majority. The House used the same maneuver to get it through their chamber last month with a 236–189 majority.

The bill now heads to Trump’s office for final approval. The White House said that the president will sign it into law, although officials have not laid out a timetable for when that could happen.

Republicans argued that the Obama-era regulation gave the federal government too much oversight on an issue that should have been decided at the state level.

“As we saw too often, the Obama administration went beyond its legal authority in creating legislation that limits the role of state governments,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said.

But Democrats have warned that the new law essentially vilifies jobless Americans and plays into the often-false stereotype that unemployed people are more likely to use drugs. (Studies about the correlation between drug use and employment status are mixed).

“If you’re looking for work, you’re guilty of drug use until being proven innocent,” Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) said.

The little-used maneuver that got it through

The Department of Labor regulation went into effect in September and specified exactly how states could use a 2012 law that allowed them to drug-test certain unemployment benefit seekers.

While the 2012 law broadly stated that states could test applicants looking for work in fields that that require frequent drug screening, the 2016 regulation more narrowly defined what that meant, giving a specific list of eligible jobs, including commercial drivers, flight crew members, and anyone who carries a firearm at work.

But since the 2016 regulation went into effect less than 60 legislative days ago, it was eligible for repeal under the Congressional Review Act. The little-used maneuver allows Congress to overturn newly implemented federal regulations with a simple majority (instead of the standard three-fifths vote).

The regulation-busting resolutions still need to be signed into law by the president, who typically is the person who oversaw the regulations to begin with. That means that the maneuver is only effective during a regime change, when a new president aligned with Congress can undo the old party’s president’s rules. Before this year, it had only been used once before, when President George W. Bush nixed a Clinton-era labor safety regulation.

The drug test regulation is the eighth Obama-era regulation the current Congress has killed through the Congressional Review Act. Among the stifled regulations are a measure that blocked some disabled Americans with mental health conditions from buying guns.

Back to the states?

After Trump signs the anti-regulation resolution into law, the Department of Labor will have the chance to write a new regulation in its place — however, the Congressional Review Act does stipulate that new orders can’t be too much like the nixed ones. Labor officials have not indicated what the possible replacement could include.

Multiple states have expressed interest in drug-testing more of their benefits-seeking residents, and it’s possible that the deregulation may create room for them to proceed with more aggressive drug testing policies.

Florida enacted a law in 2011 that would have required that all welfare benefit recipients undergo drug screenings. Two federal courts deemed it unconstitutional, and Gov. Rick Scott announced he wouldn’t appeal to the Supreme Court. His failed legal battle left Florida taxpayers with a $1.5 million bill.

In 2015, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker preemptively sued the Obama administration for the right to drug-test recipients of the state’s public benefit programs, such as welfare and unemployment. The case was tossed in September, with a judge arguing that Walker had no grounds on which to sue, since the federal government had not actually rejected his request.

Democrats from states that have tried to enact mandatory drug testing said the new deregulation could open the door for more widespread screenings.

“Yesterday, congressional Republicans continued their attack on the poor by forcing drug testing as a prerequisite for receiving unemployment benefits. As a former recipient of such services, I am appalled by the Republican Party’s discriminatory policies and deeply-sown disdain against those battling poverty,” Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Wis.) said.




Edited by Mostly_Harmless (03/19/17 04:44 AM)


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OfflineCaddilac
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Foamy]
    #24172377 - 03/18/17 03:44 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

This sounds unconstitutional. I thought everyones proven innocent until proven guilty in a court of law .


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Caddilac]
    #24172440 - 03/18/17 04:20 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Getting drug tested before getting government assistance does not equal "guilty until proven innocent."


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InvisibleJohnny Dont
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Eminence]
    #24172445 - 03/18/17 04:26 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
Getting drug tested before getting government assistance does not equal "guilty until proven innocent."




Perhaps, but it is still a violation of people's 4th amendment. Also its ineffectual and expensive.


--------------------
Don't do what Johnny Dont does


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Johnny Dont]
    #24172498 - 03/18/17 04:49 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Johnny Dont said:
Perhaps, but it is still a violation of people's 4th amendment. Also its ineffectual and expensive.





All three points are true, but this is not about saving money or stopping drug use.  It is a political issue.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Johnny Dont] * 1
    #24172503 - 03/18/17 04:50 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Johnny Dont said:
Quote:

Eminence said:
Getting drug tested before getting government assistance does not equal "guilty until proven innocent."




Perhaps, but it is still a violation of people's 4th amendment. Also its ineffectual and expensive.




First we should start drug testing all politicians and cops, and I mean strict testing...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineKonyap
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: musiclover420]
    #24172868 - 03/18/17 07:18 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

they just don't want poor people having fun unless they're damaging themselves


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: musiclover420] * 2
    #24172875 - 03/18/17 07:20 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

I don't see anything wrong with this given the standard hiring process in the US workplace.  Here's why: 

If you're going to be collecting unemployment, you better be looking for a job and willing to accept a reasonable job offer in order to start supporting yourself and get OFF unemployment.  Since the vast majority of jobs have a pre-employment drug screening, if you are not able to pass a drug test while collecting unemployment, you are also not making choices that will allow you to accept a reasonable job offer within a timely manner. 

I think it would be best if pre-employment drug screenings were not standard practice.  In certain careers I can see the necessity.  And after workplace accident, for insurance purposes, yes it makes sense.  But just as standard operating procedure to get a job?  It definitely seems ridiculous.  However, as it stands now, chances are you're going to need to pass a drug test to accept a job and get off unemployment.  I see absolutely no reason why someone collecting unemployment should not be required to pass a drug test on the spot, given the high probability of that being a requirement to accepting an offer of  employment and getting off government assistance.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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InvisibleEminence
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Registered: 07/25/10
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Johnny Dont]
    #24172902 - 03/18/17 07:32 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Johnny Dont said:
Quote:

Eminence said:
Getting drug tested before getting government assistance does not equal "guilty until proven innocent."




Perhaps, but it is still a violation of people's 4th amendment.




How is it any different from getting drug tested for certain jobs? Or are you implying that's also a violation?


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OfflineKonyap
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Eminence]
    #24172921 - 03/18/17 07:37 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

yes

it's done because insurance comapanies want to save money or whatever


Edited by Konyap (03/18/17 07:39 PM)


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InvisibleNoodle473

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 3,735
Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Konyap]
    #24172929 - 03/18/17 07:39 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Yeah just don't get unemployment.  Dumpsters are your best friend.


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OfflineKonyap
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Noodle473]
    #24172934 - 03/18/17 07:41 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

people get unemployment because their jobs dissappear
it has nothing to do  with work ethic
if you quit you don't get unemployment


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Konyap]
    #24172939 - 03/18/17 07:45 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Unemployment isn't near enough to live on anyhow


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: drake89] * 1
    #24173135 - 03/18/17 09:30 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Unemployment isn't near enough to live on anyhow




Then it's probably a bad idea to not be able to pass a drug test while you're on it, making yourself unable to accept most decent job offers in the US, wouldn't you say.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Offlinethe_way
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Shpongle1] * 1
    #24173496 - 03/19/17 12:35 AM (3 months, 6 days ago)

didn't read the article
read the comments:smirk:
I'd like to look @ my employees piss(totally don't have employees) but honestly it violates the 4th amendment how it's done and how their security system is so weak and ready to leak out(bananas). fucking pitiful totally opposite of hipaa like compliency. I should be able to discriminate against them for their alcohol fucking shit tarts and their jim crow


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InvisibleNothingsChangedS
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Shpongle1] * 1
    #24173506 - 03/19/17 12:39 AM (3 months, 6 days ago)

While employed money comes out of your check towards things like unemployment. Money you worked for you should be entitled to.


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Offlinethe_way
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: the_way]
    #24173530 - 03/19/17 12:52 AM (3 months, 6 days ago)

during the interview ill push some rum on them like this the rare shit. and after their first sip, its thank you for stopping by


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OfflineCamwritesgonzo
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Shpongle1]
    #24173531 - 03/19/17 12:53 AM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
I don't see anything wrong with this given the standard hiring process in the US workplace.  Here's why: 

If you're going to be collecting unemployment, you better be looking for a job and willing to accept a reasonable job offer in order to start supporting yourself and get OFF unemployment.  Since the vast majority of jobs have a pre-employment drug screening, if you are not able to pass a drug test while collecting unemployment, you are also not making choices that will allow you to accept a reasonable job offer within a timely manner. 

I think it would be best if pre-employment drug screenings were not standard practice.  In certain careers I can see the necessity.  And after workplace accident, for insurance purposes, yes it makes sense.  But just as standard operating procedure to get a job?  It definitely seems ridiculous.  However, as it stands now, chances are you're going to need to pass a drug test to accept a job and get off unemployment.  I see absolutely no reason why someone collecting unemployment should not be required to pass a drug test on the spot, given the high probability of that being a requirement to accepting an offer of  employment and getting off government assistance.



Ah, the joys of not getting drug tested to have a job! :smile: Being able to give the fascists the finger is currently one of the greatest pleasures in my life.


--------------------
Life is a short warm moment, and death is a long cold rest. You get your chance to try, in the twinkling of an eye. Eighty years with luck or even less.
"It's bad karma to fuck with the stoned."- Hunter S. Thompson
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: the_way] * 1
    #24173828 - 03/19/17 04:14 AM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

the_way said:
I'd like to look @ my employees piss(totally don't have employees) but honestly it violates the 4th amendment how it's done and how their security system is so weak and ready to leak out(bananas). fucking pitiful totally opposite of hipaa like compliency.





The 4th amendment limits what the government can do.  It does not limit what citizens or corporations can do.  That is why employee drug testing is not a violation of the 4th amendment, but drug testing people who receive government benefits is.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Guilty of drug use until proven innocent [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #24174671 - 03/19/17 02:17 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Part of accepting unemployment benefits is affirming that you are actively searching for employment and are willing and able to accept an offer of employment.  There is no reason, IF we have such a common practice of pre-employment drug screening, that someone collecting benefits to not work, should not have to be able to successfully pass a drug test.  You are not willing or able to accept an offer of employment if you cannot pass a drug test, period.

If you want to fight this, fight it from the other angle.  Try to do away with pre-employment drug tests.  Make it easier for people to get jobs and support themselves.  Don't make it easier for people to sit around and collect checks for doing nothing. Come on.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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