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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Dumpcare 1
#24159182 - 03/13/17 03:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So the CBO report came out and said just about exactly what everyone but the "Wrong Party" said, 15 million lose insurance, cost to individual will go up, services down. The Poor, Sick and Elderly are the big losers, and the rich are the big winners. The biggest problem will be that this bill will not pass. Ocare is failing, if this bill did pass it would also fail. We need to get together and craft a joint bill.
I really don't give a fuck either way what you people end up with. I have military TriCare that costs me almost nothing and if lil'dick and Eddie Monster try to fuck with that they'll know quickly what its like to be on the outside looking in.
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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If Obummercare wasn't repealed then everyone on earth would lose their health insurance forever.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Quote:
sweeper54 said: So the CBO report came out and said just about exactly what everyone but the "Wrong Party" said, 15 million lose insurance, cost to individual will go up, services down. The Poor, Sick and Elderly are the big losers, and the rich are the big winners. The biggest problem will be that this bill will not pass. Ocare is failing, if this bill did pass it would also fail. We need to get together and craft a joint bill.
I really don't give a fuck either way what you people end up with. I have military TriCare that costs me almost nothing and if lil'dick and Eddie Monster try to fuck with that they'll know quickly what its like to be on the outside looking in.
Well, there's been talk amongst the Republicans of slashing and "privatizing"(I.E. giving it to billionaires) Social Security and Medicare, And I can almost guarantee you that the shit will hit the fan with a quickness if their plans come to fruition. But if they succeed with gutting those two, they'll be coming for your military health insurance soon afterwards too.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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The republicans are gutless, they presented FIVE repeal plans when obama was there knowing he would veto them just to appease their base. Now when they could make real progress, we are getting a pile of shit, potentially ( keep in mind all we know about this is from media and democrats, two very bad sources of info)
Sweeper is military, sad
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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They should just give Americans the same healthcare package that Congress gets.
. . .
--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue] 1
#24159347 - 03/13/17 04:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said: They should just give Americans the same healthcare package that Congress gets.
. . . 
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Sweeper is military, sad
22 years of sad, thanks for all the support of the troops.
SAD.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue] 3
#24159403 - 03/13/17 05:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said: They should just give Americans the same healthcare package that Congress gets.
. . . 
Or better yet, congress should be part of any health care program they pass.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: qman]
#24159408 - 03/13/17 05:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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You dont want the ones veterans get.
Edited by SirTripAlot (03/13/17 05:22 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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They should just disband the military and use that money to pay for healthcare.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24159439 - 03/13/17 05:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: They should just disband the military and use that money to pay for healthcare.
Ya that would work
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I know, but people are too stupid to support it.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: You dont want the ones veterans get.
And that would be what?
I've got TriCare and disability with VA and they are both the best coverages I've had.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24159465 - 03/13/17 05:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I know, but people are too stupid to support it.
It is too big, too much money is spent on Weapons Systems and the the first thing they cut is money to the troops, but we won't be around long without it.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Meh, cut all of it. Sure, it'll mean a huge bump in unemployment, but they'll have free healthcare. They won't go hungry because they can just go into a hospital and get fed intravenously.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24159515 - 03/13/17 05:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Meh, cut all of it. Sure, it'll mean a huge bump in unemployment, but they'll have free healthcare. They won't go hungry because they can just go into a hospital and get fed intravenously.
Why can't they just give all Americans the same coverage the military gets?
It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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People have been talking about healthcare for a long time. The bottom line is that we are a country of 330 million people and healthcare is expensive. There's no cheap solution that doesn't reduce the quality of healthcare drastically.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24159559 - 03/13/17 05:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Canada does it, and they have the best healthcare in the world!
Why can't we do what they do?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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They have less than 1/10 of our population and spend 1/40 of what we do on their military.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Quote:
sweeper54 said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
vinsue said: They should just give Americans the same healthcare package that Congress gets.
. . . 

You dont want the ones veterans get.
I've got TriCare and disability with VA and they are both the best coverages I've had.
I second that. My father has Tricare and it's better than what I'm currently getting at a high tech company, which isn't all that bad.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24159578 - 03/13/17 06:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: They have less than 1/10 of our population and spends 1/40 of what we do on their military.
But we have 10 times as many people, plus all them illegals, surely that's enough revenue to pay for it
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Maybe you missed the point. Let me break it down:
Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military. We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year. Got that so far?
That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year. If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.
Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24160189 - 03/13/17 09:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Maybe you missed the point. Let me break it down:
Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military. We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year. Got that so far?
That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year. If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.
Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.
Nice breakdown,
we have more money than Canada
So why can't we do healthcare like Canada?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.
As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (03/13/17 09:47 PM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.
As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider. The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?
I've heard a lot of bad shit about the VA, it always surprises me people want that model for every US citizen/resident
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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We can if we cut military spending.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.
As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?
The VA was a lot better before it was hurt by budget cuts. There's a good but lengthy discussion about that starting here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.
As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?
The VA was a lot better before it was hurt by budget cuts. There's a good but lengthy discussion about that starting here.
If rich people, like Elon musk, and others, would stop mooching off taxpayers, maybe those budget cuts wouldn't have happened?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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So you're upset that the Government helped privatize space exploration (Space X)?
You're upset that the Government helped a US company get a head start in battery powered vehicles (Tesla)?
You're upset that the Government is putting a US company at the forefront of solar powered shingles (Solar City)?
The taxes these company earn should more than cover a return on investment, not to mention all the jobs they will create. I wonder why blue states do best?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 27 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Maybe you missed the point. Let me break it down:
Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military. We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year. Got that so far?
That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year. If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.
Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.
Nice breakdown,
we have more money than Canada
So why can't we do healthcare like Canada?
Because Canada is smart and spends money on their people, realizing that people generally make cool shit. We are dumb and spend money on guns, realizing that guns make the people that make cool shit into cool splats.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.
As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?
The VA was a lot better before it was hurt by budget cuts. There's a good but lengthy discussion about that starting here.
If rich people, like Elon musk, and others, would stop mooching off taxpayers, maybe those budget cuts wouldn't have happened?

Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So you're upset that the Government helped privatize space exploration (Space X)?
You're upset that the Government helped a US company get a head start in battery powered vehicles (Tesla)?
You're upset that the Government is putting a US company at the forefront of solar powered shingles (Solar City)?
The taxes these company earn should more than cover a return on investment, not to mention all the jobs they will create. I wonder why blue states do best?
Yeah, what happened to the whole smaller government thing?
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.
As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?
I've been in the VA for 30 years in 4 different hospital and 2 clinics all over New England and my experience is totally positive even when that was the only health insurance I had.
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howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
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How are obamacare premiums calculated ? Is it a set number of $ for everyone or is it a % of your income ?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (03/14/17 10:36 AM)
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/employees-who-decline-genetic-testing-could-face-penalities-under-proposed-bill/?utm_term=.8e08a40cae40
Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.
In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.
Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets...
Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.
In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.
Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets.
The bill is under review by other House committees and still must be considered by the Senate. But it has already faced strong criticism from a broad array of groups, as well as House Democrats. In a letter sent to the committee earlier this week, nearly 70 organizations— representing consumer, health and medical advocacy groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, AARP, March of Dimes and the National Women's Law Center — said the legislation, if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions of the Americans With Disabilities Act and the 2008 Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA).
Congress passed GINA to prohibit discrimination by health insurers and employers based on the information that people carry in their genes. There is an exception that allows for employees to provide that information as part of voluntary wellness programs. But the law states that employee participation must be entirely voluntary, with no incentives for providing the data or penalties for not providing it.
But the House legislation would allow employers to impose penalties of up to 30 percent of the total cost of the employee's health insurance on those who choose to keep such information private.
“It's a terrible Hobson's choice between affordable health insurance and protecting one's genetic privacy,” said Derek Scholes, director of science policy at the American Society of Human Genetics, which represents human genetics specialists. The organization sent a letter to the committee opposing the bill.
The average annual premium for employer-sponsored family health coverage in 2016 was $18,142, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Under the plan proposed in the bill, a wellness program could charge employees an extra $5,443 in annual premiums if they choose not to share their genetic and health information.
The bill, Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, HR 1313, was introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx, (R-N.C.), who chairs the Committee on Education and the Workforce. A committee statement said the bill provides employers “the legal certainty they need to offer employee wellness plans, helping to promote a healthy workforce and lower health care costs.” It passed on a party-line vote, with all 22 Republicans supporting it and all 17 Democrats opposed.
The bill’s supporters in the business community have argued that competing regulations in federal laws make it too difficult for companies to offer these wellness programs. In congressional testimony this month, the American Benefits Council, which represents major employers, said the burdensome rules jeopardize wellness programs that improve employee health, can increase productivity and reduce health care spending.
. . .
--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue]
#24178548 - 03/20/17 05:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said: Nearly 70 organizations— representing consumer, health and medical advocacy groups — said the legislation, if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions.
Under the plan proposed in the bill, a wellness program could charge employees an extra $5,443 in annual premiums if they choose not to share their genetic and health information.
This is what health care reform looks like?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
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Dumpcare will never see the light of day.
Unfortunately for the Dems
Edited by sweeper54 (03/20/17 07:10 PM)
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 27 seconds
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue]
#24178930 - 03/20/17 09:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said:
Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/employees-who-decline-genetic-testing-could-face-penalities-under-proposed-bill/?utm_term=.8e08a40cae40
Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.
In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.
Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets...
Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.
In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.
Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets.
The bill is under review by other House committees and still must be considered by the Senate. But it has already faced strong criticism from a broad array of groups, as well as House Democrats. In a letter sent to the committee earlier this week, nearly 70 organizations— representing consumer, health and medical advocacy groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, AARP, March of Dimes and the National Women's Law Center — said the legislation, if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions of the Americans With Disabilities Act and the 2008 Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA).
Congress passed GINA to prohibit discrimination by health insurers and employers based on the information that people carry in their genes. There is an exception that allows for employees to provide that information as part of voluntary wellness programs. But the law states that employee participation must be entirely voluntary, with no incentives for providing the data or penalties for not providing it.
But the House legislation would allow employers to impose penalties of up to 30 percent of the total cost of the employee's health insurance on those who choose to keep such information private.
“It's a terrible Hobson's choice between affordable health insurance and protecting one's genetic privacy,” said Derek Scholes, director of science policy at the American Society of Human Genetics, which represents human genetics specialists. The organization sent a letter to the committee opposing the bill.
The average annual premium for employer-sponsored family health coverage in 2016 was $18,142, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Under the plan proposed in the bill, a wellness program could charge employees an extra $5,443 in annual premiums if they choose not to share their genetic and health information.
The bill, Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, HR 1313, was introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx, (R-N.C.), who chairs the Committee on Education and the Workforce. A committee statement said the bill provides employers “the legal certainty they need to offer employee wellness plans, helping to promote a healthy workforce and lower health care costs.” It passed on a party-line vote, with all 22 Republicans supporting it and all 17 Democrats opposed.
The bill’s supporters in the business community have argued that competing regulations in federal laws make it too difficult for companies to offer these wellness programs. In congressional testimony this month, the American Benefits Council, which represents major employers, said the burdensome rules jeopardize wellness programs that improve employee health, can increase productivity and reduce health care spending.
. . . 
Hang on, so the death panels that Obama never made are gonna end up being a Trump thing?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 50 seconds
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Didn't trump say he was a great negotiator? This health care bill is a total embarrassment. The incompetence is stunning. You control both houses of congress and the White House and you can't pass a fucking bill?
Btw, trump sat back and let someone else design this bill. He had nothing to do with it. He's such a fraud, it really pisses me off. I can't believe this dullard is president.
I just saw an interview with a republican congressman who says he now wants to fix obamacare. LOL
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/23/17 05:59 PM)
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koods
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Maybe you missed the point. Let me break it down:
Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military. We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year. Got that so far?
That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year. If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.
Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.
Nice breakdown,
we have more money than Canada
So why can't we do healthcare like Canada?
Because socialism
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods] 2
#24186898 - 03/23/17 06:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Single payer healthcare isn't socialism.
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24186917 - 03/23/17 06:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is to most of the GOP
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24186924 - 03/23/17 06:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why would I care what they think? Why would you?
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24186961 - 03/23/17 06:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh so you're looking ahead to the future when the idiot masses realize that republicans don't give a fuck about them
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187006 - 03/23/17 06:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow. I have to admit, even I'm shocked at how pathetic trump is. He's gonna give up on repealing obamacare if the GOP bill doesnt pass tomorrow. he's such a fighter. He put up with this for four whole days. Enough is enough. Time to go golfing.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/23/17 06:55 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187010 - 03/23/17 06:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, I'm looking at now, when talking heads in Washington have no power to define my reality.
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187020 - 03/23/17 06:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trump needs to use his amazing car salesman skills for good and push for single payer.
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187033 - 03/23/17 07:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I might not be against that as long as the payer isn't the government.
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187043 - 03/23/17 07:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe Ivanka can get the contract to provide national insurance
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187051 - 03/23/17 07:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, you're really okay with the government deciding what care you do and do not need? I'm curious.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24187086 - 03/23/17 07:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If they don't decide what to give you, then you get nothing from them. Easy choice for me.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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I'd prefer nothing from them, and not having to pay them to give me nothing. Single payer means that private insurance will become rare and expensive. Only the rich will be able to afford good care.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187112 - 03/23/17 07:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Single payer means that private insurance will become rare and expensive. Only the rich will be able to afford good care.
Medicare for all is more than good enough for me. And many people couldn't afford ANY care under your proposal (if you're really worried about the not so rich).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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I get that. I want to help the poor, but I don't really want to lose my freedom/ability to have some control over the quality of my care. Medicare might be good enough for you, but it's horrible for people who have real long-term problems.
Cost of healthcare might go down if education were more adequately funded. I'd rather see that approach than single payer.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187140 - 03/23/17 07:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I get that. I want to help the poor, but I don't really want to lose my freedom/ability to have some control over the quality of my care. Medicare might be good enough for you, but it's horrible for people who have real long-term problems.
It seems better than every other option right now:

And long term care insurance would still be an option for those with a little extra money.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Your chart looks like it's a distant second to Medicaid and only marginally better than out-of-pocket. I had to lol that you used the Heritage Foundation as a source.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187196 - 03/23/17 08:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I get that. I want to help the poor, but I don't really want to lose my freedom/ability to have some control over the quality of my care. Medicare might be good enough for you, but it's horrible for people who have real long-term problems.
Cost of healthcare might go down if education were more adequately funded. I'd rather see that approach than single payer.
I just don't get this argument. There only needs to be one plan. If you get sick, you're covered. it makes zero sense trying to micromanage insurance. The entire point is to cover the unpredictable.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187205 - 03/23/17 08:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Your chart looks like it's a distant second to Medicaid and only marginally better than out-of-pocket. I had to lol that you used the Heritage Foundation as a source.
You're right, I should have said "Government care" rather than Medicare.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187209 - 03/23/17 08:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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As always, the devil is in the details. Covered for what? For anything and everything a doctor thinks is a good idea? For Federally Approved Procedures? For what? Who decides? If it's someone other than me and my doctor, I'm not okay with that.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187226 - 03/23/17 08:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're ok with a for-profit insurer deciding?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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As long as I can choose the insurer or no insurer based on those policies.
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24187504 - 03/23/17 10:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Far as I know it's pretty rare in Canada to be rejected health care if you need it. Cancer care and all that is covered. My experience with our system is that specialists can sometimes take a few months to get an initial appointment with, but if it's a serious situation that is obviously going to be a lot different. People with serious illnesses or that need surgery are given it immediately, even recovered alcoholics can receive liver transplants from our health care...long as they test alcohol free for a long time, and a match is available (I was trying to give a random example to show the extent of the care provided)
What kind of things wouldn't be covered? Some medications can get expensive here but you can get insurance plans for that and anyone with a decent job is covered through their work.
I have a family doctor who I've had since I was a baby, I had an appendix removed about 15 years ago, I've had several seizures and received health care in different provinces (traveling for work), I have a neurologist and have received many MRI's, ultrasounds, etc, all for free. I've never paid a dime.
Biggest expense through it all was probably the parking cost at the hospital 
I have 90 year old family members who receive good care for a very long time because of our single payer system. Sure it aint perfect and most things never will be, but it certainly does work and people are taken care of. Basic needs are met and even beyond, I would say.
Too bad the USA will likely never give it a chance
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koods
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I was Montreal playing in a hockey tournament and I got pink eye. Went to a clinic on a sunday afternoon and paid $75 to see the doctor. In the us, that would have cost $200 minimjm.
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187532 - 03/23/17 11:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's not true. I've gone to many clinics and paid less than $100.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187710 - 03/24/17 02:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: As long as I can choose the insurer or no insurer based on those policies.
You'll be paying a lot more for that choice. Eliminating health insurance would be a huge reduction in costs. And "no insurer" is as bad a choice as there can be.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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I understand that. It really comes down to balancing my desires with the greater good, though.
I'll gladly take a tax hike to make a more prosperous America for the poor. Single payer is somewhat the same thing, but with the added twist that my current level of healthcare will likely be out of my reach if it is passed. I'm willing to suffer economic discomfort to help others. I don't know if I'm willing to accept a shorter lifespan for it.
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 3
#24188068 - 03/24/17 07:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Accept a shorter life span? What do you base that on?
Many countries with single payer systems have higher life expectancy than USA, including Canada.
Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?
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You're talking about average lifespan. I'm talking about MY lifespan. With the current healthcare system, I have excellent coverage AND the option to go outside of that coverage and pay for things that might not be covered if necessary. This maximizes my options.
Under a single payer, the coverage will almost certainly be inferior to my current coverage, and coverage like I have now will almost certainly become far more expensive. There's a very real possibility that I will no longer be in a position to be able to afford a treatment that I can now afford simply because of this new system. I'm not sure I'm willing to risk that for the greater good.
I'd rather you tax the shit out of me to pay for education of future doctors. Lets flood the market with them and drive costs down.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188406 - 03/24/17 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: my current level of healthcare will likely be out of my reach if it is passed. I'm willing to suffer economic discomfort to help others. I don't know if I'm willing to accept a shorter lifespan for it.
I'm not convinced your level of healthcare would necessarily go down. If they passed something decent like Tricare Standard, with an option for a paid upgrade, you'd be in VERY good shape.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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I have a buddy in Tricare, and he waits a long, long fucking time for anything beyond a basic visit. His diabetes was diagnosed so late he almost lost a leg.
By comparison, I went to the ER Monday for mysterious pain throughout my body. I see a neurologist today about it. I've already had a CT scan, ultrasound, blood work, etc.
If the federal government is going to get me a CT scan within 6 hours of me experiencing pain, fine. If not, I'd much rather stay with my coverage.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24188463 - 03/24/17 10:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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your coverage is subsidized by all the poor schmucks who can only afford sub-par insurance. It sounds like you are opposed to those people receiving adequate medical coverage if in so doing it forces the true cost of your very good coverage onto your shoulders.
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Enlil
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I'm willing to pay more so those less fortunate can have better care. I'm not willing to pay so much more that my access to care suffers.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188578 - 03/24/17 11:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Would you be in favor of a public insurance option?
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188607 - 03/24/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I have a buddy in Tricare, and he waits a long, long fucking time for anything beyond a basic visit. His diabetes was diagnosed so late he almost lost a leg.
There are many different Tricare plans. I was referring to a Tricare plan where you can see a private doctor, so the wait times are equivalent to private insurance.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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One with enough limitations to not convert private insurance into an exotic luxury, yes.
I still think the better option is to combat costs by flooding the market with doctors and maybe a subsidized malpractice insurance.
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koods
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Ryan says the bill won't pass.
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188626 - 03/24/17 11:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: One with enough limitations to not convert private insurance into an exotic luxury, yes.
I still think the better option is to combat costs by flooding the market with doctors and maybe a subsidized malpractice insurance.
Ok so you want to overhaul the education system. Or immigration.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188629 - 03/24/17 11:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I still think the better option is to combat costs by flooding the market with doctors and maybe a subsidized malpractice insurance.
That can also be done with single payer. The bonus is that with single payer you also get rid of for profit middle men.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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And you get to see whatever doctor you want,
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ballsalsa
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188636 - 03/24/17 11:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can see potential merit to that approach.
On the topic of public insurance though, why have limitations? Why not let it operate exactly like private insurance and have it compete in the market on its own merit? If private insurance is better, it should retain enough market share so that you only have to sell one or 2 vehicles to offset the cost. (that last part was a lighthearted poke. its sometimes hard to convey inflection with text vie a message board)
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24188645 - 03/24/17 11:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Ok so you want to overhaul the education system. Or immigration.
Wouldn't take an overhaul. All it would take would be a specific federal plan to fund medical education. Funding for undergrad work is already available through student loans, and I'd keep that. For those going to medical school meeting specific minimum academic standards, I'd offer a plan to pay back/forgive all student loans, etc.
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Enlil
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Compete? Like public schools compete with private schools? When funding is determined by statute, there is no competition. Like all government employees, they'll do the minimum they can to keep their jobs and that's it.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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A public option is fine, provided the Government subsidizes the costs of whichever plan people choose (otherwise it's too expensive for the poor).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188681 - 03/24/17 12:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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L.A. DWP is owned by the city, and provides excellent service at a very competetive price when compared to other energy providers in the region. Their employees enjoy good pay and benefits, and It contributes to the city's funding. I don't know anyone who has Edison, for instance, that doesn't wish they had DWP service.
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ballsalsa
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: A public option is fine, provided the Government subsidizes the costs of whichever plan people choose (otherwise it's too expensive for the poor).
To be clear, i am in favor of single payer, but i was trying to feel out Enlil's position.
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Enlil
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From a philosophical/public policy point of view, I'd like to see a system that allows every man, woman, and child in the U.S. to have access to a doctor when he/she/it needs one. This would obviously include life-threatening situations, but it would cover more than that. Having said that, it should not cover enough for this to be the first choice for people. It should be the baseline or backup plan. It should be designed such that we're not leaving people so fucked that they can't function, but we're also not making them comfortable so that they have no incentive to work to get a better plan.
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188696 - 03/24/17 12:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can agree with that.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Quote:
ballsalsa said: L.A. DWP is owned by the city, and provides excellent service at a very competetive price when compared to other energy providers in the region. Their employees enjoy good pay and benefits, and It contributes to the city's funding. I don't know anyone who has Edison, for instance, that doesn't wish they had DWP service.
You do now.
I've had Edison for about 15 years, and I had DWP for about 8. DWP is twice the cost, half the service, and unbelievably rude when I did actually have to deal with their employees.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I can agree with that.
So, really, we only disagree on what it takes to make that happen.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188733 - 03/24/17 12:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Correct. You seem to think (correct me if I'm wrong) private insurers would better look out for our interests than Government.
Granted, Government's record hasn't been stellar since the 80's, but neither has private insurance.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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sweeper54



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Ok this is the new try to get Dumpcare passed, 12 new amendments.
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Enlil
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It's not so much that they'd look out for our interests. It's that they'd look out for their interests, one of which is retaining customers. Another of those interests is to avoid liability for failure to provide care.
Government, on the other hand, won't care about retaining customers or looking out for our interests. They also won't have any fear of lawsuits for failure to provide coverage, etc.
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sweeper54



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188795 - 03/24/17 12:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24188947 - 03/24/17 01:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I'd rather you tax the shit out of me to pay for education of future doctors. Lets flood the market with them and drive costs down.
I think this might have some unintended side effects.
First, currently, there are legal limits to the number of residents per hospital, under the somewhat reasonable assumption that residents should be supervised in small groups by doctors, as opposed to a lecture-like scenario. Considering that many hospitals are consolidating into mega-hospitals so that they can still negotiate with insurance company conglomerates instead of just being strongarmed out of the markets, I am not optimistic that we can even maintain the number of doctors we have without dropping standards significantly. (Do *you* wanna visit the doctor that just barely passed because there weren't enough doctors in the graduating class and they grabbed from the fail pile?)
Second, and this is the one that worries me the most, where are all these new doctors gonna come from? I currently teach an Organic Chemistry lab, required for all pre-meds, and I gotta say, the pre-meds scare me the most. The Chem majors all do their best and get As and Bs. The biologists try and get Bs and Cs. The pre-meds? They don't try, and when they get a C, I get an email from the lab supervisor asking me if I'm grading unfairly, and have to sit down and defend every instance where I took off points. This is usually easy, and in more than half of all of these cases, the students walked out of that meeting with a lower grade than they walked in with.
Since medical school standards are effectively perfect grades, it seems that becoming a doctor and becoming a politician are surprisingly similar. Never accept that you are not good enough, just call the other person an idiot and complain until they give you an A to make you leave.
This also reminds me a bit of this "action plan" committee I was on at my school. Their "action plan" included expanding enrollment and graduation rates at an alarming rate, something like ~15% over the next half decade. This sounds great on paper, huge growth, etc. The problem is, how do you maintain standards? There's a fairly set number of students that will be reaching college age every year, determined by the birthrate two decades back. If you want to see huge short term growth, then the easiest way to do it is to drop standards and devalue the degree.
Anyway, back on Dumpcare topic: I'm looking at this death spiral terminology for the first time, and I'm looking at some of the specifics, and I'm looking damn close at that 30% premium hike for dropping insurance, and the fact that there's a chance that it will be repealed if the more conservative fringe elements continue to get their way like the other concessions in the bill.
If they get rid of that 30% tax hike, I sure as shit am gonna lapse my insurance. I'm young and healthy, I won't *need* insurance for at least a decade barring random chance, and that right there is the very definition of the cause of the death spiral. And if the "random chance" scenario plays out, I'll just declare bankruptcy and take the free meds. Our society has yet to develop to the point where we allow people to die in the street without calling an ambulance since they don't have insurance.
And declaring bankruptcy is an important stepping stone to the presidency.
Edited by Kryptos (03/24/17 01:42 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Kryptos] 2
#24188955 - 03/24/17 01:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yay, it's dead. The bill has been scuttled.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I have no problem lowering standards for doctors. Not every doctor needs to be brilliant. There can certainly be multiple tiers of medical licenses to manage the different standards. Realistically, a psychiatrist doesn't need the same skill set as an orthopedic surgeon.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24188982 - 03/24/17 01:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's already like that. A surgeon spends many years more in residency than a psychiatrist.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24188990 - 03/24/17 01:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, admission standards for medical schools can reflect that.
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koods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24189000 - 03/24/17 01:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Medical schools are like basic training. The education in specialties comes during the residency period of training.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Kryptos
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24189042 - 03/24/17 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Medical schools are like basic training. The education in specialties comes during the residency period of training.
Which is why I bring up the first point of residency limits. Yes, they need to be addressed to reflect the mega-hospitals, but at the same time, this is also something that needs to be considered. Residents need to be up to par.
Quote:
Enlil said: I have no problem lowering standards for doctors. Not every doctor needs to be brilliant. There can certainly be multiple tiers of medical licenses to manage the different standards. Realistically, a psychiatrist doesn't need the same skill set as an orthopedic surgeon.
I agree with this. My GP/family practice doctor can be half-retarded for all I care, because all they do is give me a referral to a specialist. Heck, I would prefer to skip the GP all together and just talk to the receptionist for a few minutes, but I gotta do the dance.
On the other hand, imagine the news headlines: "family doctors across country incapable of passing basic surgical standards! Run for your lives!"
It's a bit like how I, a chem grad who teaches organic (and does pure organic chemistry), would probably have trouble passing a gen chem test because I've literally never used half the stuff I learned. I don't need to know how to calculate galvanic cell potentials off the top of my head, because I'm no electrochemist, but if I admit that to my students, well, see "meeting with lab director" above.
It's one of those things that is very obvious when you think about it for two seconds, but if you don't spend those two seconds of thought, I just admitted that I'm horribly underqualified to teach my students.
People are generally dumb.
Edited by Kryptos (03/24/17 02:15 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



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You don't need to know how to perform surgery to graduate from medical school.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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relic
of a bygone era


Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,624
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24189129 - 03/24/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: L.A. DWP is owned by the city, and provides excellent service at a very competetive price when compared to other energy providers in the region. Their employees enjoy good pay and benefits, and It contributes to the city's funding. I don't know anyone who has Edison, for instance, that doesn't wish they had DWP service.
You do now.
I've had Edison for about 15 years, and I had DWP for about 8. DWP is twice the cost, half the service, and unbelievably rude when I did actually have to deal with their employees.
did you mean to write something like '15 to 23 years ago DWP was twice the cost, half the service, and rude'? am i reading correctly that your most recent experience with DWP was 1.5 decades ago?
perhaps their services, prices, and customer care has significantly changed after such a long interval.
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koods
Ribbit



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Med schools can't afford to enroll people who won't succeed. It is a very labor and resource intensive process to educate doctors.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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relic
of a bygone era


Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,624
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: relic] 3
#24189145 - 03/24/17 02:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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trump pulling the bill without a vote and his threats of 'if you don't pass this bill you're stuck with the ACA' is an obvious political ploy to pass the buck onto someone else so he can spin a denial of failure.
he's toying with healthcare for political points like the most typical of DC politicians. "he's an outsider, not one of them inside the beltway good-for-nothings". lol, suckers.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24189180 - 03/24/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Med schools can't afford to enroll people who won't succeed. It is a very labor and resource intensive process to educate doctors.
Yes, and the solution to this is not to just give pre-med students a 4.0 GPA for signing up.
It also has very little to do with dynamiting the Department of Education, but I get the feeling that it is or will soon be oddly relevant.
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: relic] 5
#24189229 - 03/24/17 03:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trump blamed the Dems for not cooperating with the Repubs on the vote when in fact, this would have passed if all the Repubs voted for it. Democrats had nothing to do with its failing.
His budget approval is going to be even harder to get through.
Deal maker, lol.
. . .
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"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue] 2
#24189297 - 03/24/17 03:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
“As you know, I’ve been saying for years that the best thing is to let Obamacare explode and then go make a deal with the Democrats and have one unified deal. And they will come to us, we won’t have to come to them,” he said. “After Obamacare explodes.” “The beauty,” Trump continued, “is that they own Obamacare.”
Psychopath
Hey, maybe you could fix the problems with Obamacare. But then it would still be Obamacare, and that isn't acceptable because it's not named in your honor.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/24/17 03:47 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24189334 - 03/24/17 04:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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the hoi polloi is the new renaissance. everyone's like "Marxist dialectic!", "did you know that Marx was a mentor to Hegal?", "Hegalian dialectic!"
"liberalism is a virus! it's the end of world if we let them commie heathens take over, we'll be persecuted like Jesus, we must purge them, lest the world be taken over by fire! take that Marx!"
and i'm like " "
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods] 1
#24189337 - 03/24/17 04:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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- “We are going to get rid of Obamacare and repeal it and replace it.” [Portland, ME, 3/3/16]
- “Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.” [Trump campaign website, 3/3/16]
- “We are going to get rid of a lot of things. We are getting rid of Obamacare and replacing it. OK?” [Orlando, FL, 3/5/16]
- “On health care where we’re going to repeal and replace Obamacare…” [GOP debate, Jupiter, FL, 3/8/16]
- “We have discussed repealing and replacing Obamacare. It is going to happen.” [Fayetteville, NC, 3/9/16]
- “We can’t have good health care. Obamacare is a disaster. Got to be repealed and replaced.” [Fox News, 3/11/16]
- “We are going to repeal and replace Obamacare and we are going to win with its replacement.” [Dayton, OH, 3/12/16]
- “We’re going to repeal and replace Obama care. It’s going to be repealed and replaced.”[Kansas City, MO, 3/12/16]
- “We are gonna lead on health care, we are gonna get rid of Obamacare, repeal and replace.” [West Chester, OH, 3/13/16]
- “Obamacare is a disaster. It will be repealed and replaced as sure as you’re sitting there. Repealed and replaced. Thank you. And we will have alternatives that will be so good, that’s so much less expensive. So much better. You will actually be able to keep your doctor and to have your plan.” [Tampa, FL, 3/14/16]
- “And I have to tell you, health care, Obamacare is a disaster. We’re gonna repeal and replace it. We’re gonna repeal it and replace it.” [Hickory, NC, 3/14/16]
- “We’re repealing and replacing Obamacare that I can tell you.” [Youngstown, OH, 3/14/16]
- “We’re gonna terminate Obamacare. We’re gonna repeal it and replace it with great health care for far less money. That’s gonna happen. That is going to happen.” [Fountain Hills, AZ, 3/19/16]
- “HANNITY: You said to me you will repeal “Obama care” and replace it with health care savings accounts. TRUMP: Correct.” [Fox News, 3/21/16]
- “So we’re gonna get efficiency in government but we’re gonna end Obamacare. We’re gonna replace it with something so much better and so much less expensive.” [Janesville, WI, 3/29/16]
- “Obamacare is going to be repealed and replaced.” [Appleton, WI, 3/30/16]
- “We are going to repeal and replace Obamacare which is a total catastrophe. You are going to have great health insurance.” [Milwaukee, WI, 4/4/16]
- “Obamacare is going to be repealed and replaced with something much less expensive that works much better.” [CNN, 5/14/16]
- “We are going to repeal and replace Obamacare, which is a disaster.” [Charleston, WV, 5/5/16]
- “HANNITY: You’re making a promise to balance the budget. You’re making a promise to build the wall. You made a promise you’re going to repeal ‘Obamacare’… TRUMP: A hundred percent.” [Fox News, 5/18/16]
- “We are going to repeal and replace Obamacare.” [Lawrence Township, NJ, 5/19/16]
- “Because we will terminate Obama care and replace it, believe me, with something good. Believe me. [Cheers and applause] Repeal and replace Obama care.” [San Diego, CA, 5/27/16]
- “We’re gonna repeal and replace Obamacare with something great.” [Fresno, CA, 5/27/16]
- “And by the way, we are going to repeal and replace Obamacare. Just remember that.” [New York, NY, 5/29/16]
- “A lot of part timers because of Obamacare, which is a disaster, which we’re going to repeal and replace with something much better, and much less money.” [Fox News, 6/21/16]
- “We will repeal and replace job killing Obamacare. It is a total disaster.” [New York, NY, 6/22/16]
- “We will repeal and replace disastrous Obamacare. You will be able to choose your own doctor again.” [Acceptance speech in Cleveland, OH 7/21/16]
- “We will repeal and replace the horrible disaster known as Obamacare.” [Manchester, NH, 8/25/16]
- “On my first day in office, I am going to ask congress to send me a bill to immediately repeal and replace, I just said it, Obamacare.” [Asheville, NC, 9/12/16]
- “Also on my first day, I will ask congress to send me a bill to immediately repeal and replace disastrous Obamacare.” [Clive, OH, 9/13/16]
- “Also on my first day i’m going to ask congress to send me a bill to immediately repeal and replace disastrous Obamacare.” [Canton, OH, 9/14/16]
- “The 3.8 percent Obamacare tax on investment income will be repealed, as will the alternative minimum tax.” [Trump campaign website, 9/15/16]
- “Repeal and replace Obamacare with Health Savings Accounts (HSAs).” [Trump campaign website, 10/6/16]
- “Next, I will work with Congress to introduce the following broader legislative measures and fight for their passage within the first 100 days of my administration. … The Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeal Obamacare and replace it with health savings accounts. We can do that.” [Gettysburg, PA, 10/22/16]
- “My first day in office, I am going to ask Congress to put a bill on my desk getting rid of this disastrous law and replacing it with reforms that expand choice, freedom, affordability.” [Sanford, FL, 10/25/16]
- “When we win on November 8th and elect a Republican congress, we will be able to immediately repeal and replace Obamacare. Have to do it. I will ask Congress to convene a special session so we can repeal and replace, and it will be such an honor for me, for you, and for everybody in this country because Obamacare has to be replaced and we will do it and we will do it very, very quickly.” [Valley Forge, PA, 11/1/16]
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods] 1
#24189340 - 03/24/17 04:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: relic]
#24189428 - 03/24/17 04:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If I meant to write that, I would have. I'm very precise with language. And no, you're not reading correctly.
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relic
of a bygone era


Registered: 10/14/14
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24189570 - 03/24/17 05:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok Enlil.
if written by the average poster it's at least a little ambiguous. for one as precise as you it's glaringly so, imo. thanks for clearing up my evidently poor comprehension.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24189586 - 03/24/17 05:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm with relic. Your post was ambiguous. I even thought relic's guess would prove correct.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
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for the record: https://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/faces/wcnav_externalId/a-fr-elecrate-schel?_adf.ctrl-state=34bwco1qu_4&_afrLoop=27854899985667
Quote:
2017 2017 Consumption Charge Power Access Charge
Tier 1 Tier 2 Tier 3 Tier 1 Tier 2 Tier 3
0.14872 0.18401 0.18401 0.85 3.00 9.00
Edison's link was realy long
Quote:
Tier 1 16¢ Baseline kWh (up to 100%) Tier 2 25¢ 101% to 400% over Baseline High Usage Charge 31¢ More than 400% over Baseline Other Applicable Charges 3¢ Daily Basic Charge - This is a flat daily charge that is billed on a monthly basis 33¢ Minimum Charge - This is a flat daily charge applied if delivery charges are below a minimum.
It doesn't look like DWP is twice the price to me. like i said, they also compensate their employees generously while contributing profits to the city. I'll let Enlil have the last word on this as I don't want to derail the thread further than i already have.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: relic] 1
#24189850 - 03/24/17 07:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It isn't ambiguous about my position and my point. If I was trying to lay out a precise timeline of events, sure, but that's not what I was doing. I have had Edison and DWP multiple times each throughout my life. I gave an estimate of the total number of years with each in order to demonstrate that both have had an adequate time to prove their value, or lack thereof.
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