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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24187504 - 03/23/17 10:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Far as I know it's pretty rare in Canada to be rejected health care if you need it. Cancer care and all that is covered. My experience with our system is that specialists can sometimes take a few months to get an initial appointment with, but if it's a serious situation that is obviously going to be a lot different. People with serious illnesses or that need surgery are given it immediately, even recovered alcoholics can receive liver transplants from our health care...long as they test alcohol free for a long time, and a match is available (I was trying to give a random example to show the extent of the care provided)
What kind of things wouldn't be covered? Some medications can get expensive here but you can get insurance plans for that and anyone with a decent job is covered through their work.
I have a family doctor who I've had since I was a baby, I had an appendix removed about 15 years ago, I've had several seizures and received health care in different provinces (traveling for work), I have a neurologist and have received many MRI's, ultrasounds, etc, all for free. I've never paid a dime.
Biggest expense through it all was probably the parking cost at the hospital 
I have 90 year old family members who receive good care for a very long time because of our single payer system. Sure it aint perfect and most things never will be, but it certainly does work and people are taken care of. Basic needs are met and even beyond, I would say.
Too bad the USA will likely never give it a chance
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koods
Ribbit



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I was Montreal playing in a hockey tournament and I got pink eye. Went to a clinic on a sunday afternoon and paid $75 to see the doctor. In the us, that would have cost $200 minimjm.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24187532 - 03/23/17 11:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's not true. I've gone to many clinics and paid less than $100.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24187710 - 03/24/17 02:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: As long as I can choose the insurer or no insurer based on those policies.
You'll be paying a lot more for that choice. Eliminating health insurance would be a huge reduction in costs. And "no insurer" is as bad a choice as there can be.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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I understand that. It really comes down to balancing my desires with the greater good, though.
I'll gladly take a tax hike to make a more prosperous America for the poor. Single payer is somewhat the same thing, but with the added twist that my current level of healthcare will likely be out of my reach if it is passed. I'm willing to suffer economic discomfort to help others. I don't know if I'm willing to accept a shorter lifespan for it.
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sh4d0ws
LSx


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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 3
#24188068 - 03/24/17 07:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Accept a shorter life span? What do you base that on?
Many countries with single payer systems have higher life expectancy than USA, including Canada.
Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?
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Enlil
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You're talking about average lifespan. I'm talking about MY lifespan. With the current healthcare system, I have excellent coverage AND the option to go outside of that coverage and pay for things that might not be covered if necessary. This maximizes my options.
Under a single payer, the coverage will almost certainly be inferior to my current coverage, and coverage like I have now will almost certainly become far more expensive. There's a very real possibility that I will no longer be in a position to be able to afford a treatment that I can now afford simply because of this new system. I'm not sure I'm willing to risk that for the greater good.
I'd rather you tax the shit out of me to pay for education of future doctors. Lets flood the market with them and drive costs down.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188406 - 03/24/17 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: my current level of healthcare will likely be out of my reach if it is passed. I'm willing to suffer economic discomfort to help others. I don't know if I'm willing to accept a shorter lifespan for it.
I'm not convinced your level of healthcare would necessarily go down. If they passed something decent like Tricare Standard, with an option for a paid upgrade, you'd be in VERY good shape.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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I have a buddy in Tricare, and he waits a long, long fucking time for anything beyond a basic visit. His diabetes was diagnosed so late he almost lost a leg.
By comparison, I went to the ER Monday for mysterious pain throughout my body. I see a neurologist today about it. I've already had a CT scan, ultrasound, blood work, etc.
If the federal government is going to get me a CT scan within 6 hours of me experiencing pain, fine. If not, I'd much rather stay with my coverage.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil] 1
#24188463 - 03/24/17 10:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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your coverage is subsidized by all the poor schmucks who can only afford sub-par insurance. It sounds like you are opposed to those people receiving adequate medical coverage if in so doing it forces the true cost of your very good coverage onto your shoulders.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I'm willing to pay more so those less fortunate can have better care. I'm not willing to pay so much more that my access to care suffers.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188578 - 03/24/17 11:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Would you be in favor of a public insurance option?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188607 - 03/24/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I have a buddy in Tricare, and he waits a long, long fucking time for anything beyond a basic visit. His diabetes was diagnosed so late he almost lost a leg.
There are many different Tricare plans. I was referring to a Tricare plan where you can see a private doctor, so the wait times are equivalent to private insurance.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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One with enough limitations to not convert private insurance into an exotic luxury, yes.
I still think the better option is to combat costs by flooding the market with doctors and maybe a subsidized malpractice insurance.
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koods
Ribbit



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Ryan says the bill won't pass.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188626 - 03/24/17 11:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: One with enough limitations to not convert private insurance into an exotic luxury, yes.
I still think the better option is to combat costs by flooding the market with doctors and maybe a subsidized malpractice insurance.
Ok so you want to overhaul the education system. Or immigration.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188629 - 03/24/17 11:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I still think the better option is to combat costs by flooding the market with doctors and maybe a subsidized malpractice insurance.
That can also be done with single payer. The bonus is that with single payer you also get rid of for profit middle men.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



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And you get to see whatever doctor you want,
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
#24188636 - 03/24/17 11:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can see potential merit to that approach.
On the topic of public insurance though, why have limitations? Why not let it operate exactly like private insurance and have it compete in the market on its own merit? If private insurance is better, it should retain enough market share so that you only have to sell one or 2 vehicles to offset the cost. (that last part was a lighthearted poke. its sometimes hard to convey inflection with text vie a message board)
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Enlil
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods]
#24188645 - 03/24/17 11:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Ok so you want to overhaul the education system. Or immigration.
Wouldn't take an overhaul. All it would take would be a specific federal plan to fund medical education. Funding for undergrad work is already available through student loans, and I'd keep that. For those going to medical school meeting specific minimum academic standards, I'd offer a plan to pay back/forgive all student loans, etc.
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