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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
    #24159578 - 03/13/17 06:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They have less than 1/10 of our population and spends 1/40 of what we do on their military.




But we have 10 times as many people, plus all them illegals, surely that's enough revenue to pay for it


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: hostileuniverse] * 2
    #24159595 - 03/13/17 06:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe you missed the point.  Let me break it down:

Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military.  We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year.  Got that so far?

That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year.  If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.

Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Enlil]
    #24160189 - 03/13/17 09:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Maybe you missed the point.  Let me break it down:

Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military.  We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year.  Got that so far?

That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year.  If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.

Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.





Nice breakdown,

we have more money than Canada

So why can't we do healthcare like Canada?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24160260 - 03/13/17 09:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.

As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (03/13/17 09:47 PM)

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24160276 - 03/13/17 09:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.

As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider. The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?




I've heard a lot of bad shit about the VA, it always surprises me people want that model for every US citizen/resident


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #24160304 - 03/13/17 09:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

We can if we cut military spending.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24160309 - 03/13/17 10:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.

As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?



The VA was a lot better before it was hurt by budget cuts.  There's a good but lengthy discussion about that starting here.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24160358 - 03/13/17 10:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.

As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?



The VA was a lot better before it was hurt by budget cuts.  There's a good but lengthy discussion about that starting here.




If rich people, like Elon musk, and others, would stop mooching off taxpayers, maybe those budget cuts wouldn't have happened?
:shrug:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #24160493 - 03/13/17 11:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So you're upset that the Government helped privatize space exploration (Space X)?

You're upset that the Government helped a US company get a head start in battery powered vehicles (Tesla)?

You're upset that the Government is putting a US company at the forefront of solar powered shingles (Solar City)?

The taxes these company earn should more than cover a return on investment, not to mention all the jobs they will create.  I wonder why blue states do best?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24160606 - 03/14/17 12:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Maybe you missed the point.  Let me break it down:

Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military.  We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year.  Got that so far?

That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year.  If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.

Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.





Nice breakdown,

we have more money than Canada

So why can't we do healthcare like Canada?




Because Canada is smart and spends money on their people, realizing that people generally make cool shit. We are dumb and spend money on guns, realizing that guns make the people that make cool shit into cool splats.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.

As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?



The VA was a lot better before it was hurt by budget cuts.  There's a good but lengthy discussion about that starting here.




If rich people, like Elon musk, and others, would stop mooching off taxpayers, maybe those budget cuts wouldn't have happened?
:shrug:




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So you're upset that the Government helped privatize space exploration (Space X)?

You're upset that the Government helped a US company get a head start in battery powered vehicles (Tesla)?

You're upset that the Government is putting a US company at the forefront of solar powered shingles (Solar City)?

The taxes these company earn should more than cover a return on investment, not to mention all the jobs they will create.  I wonder why blue states do best?




Yeah, what happened to the whole smaller government thing?

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24160904 - 03/14/17 07:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Been in the VA system for.close to two decades...my experince is not.positive. Tricare is a not run by VA hospitals and the level of care is much better.

As an example, it tooks me three months to see a mental health provider ( after being in the ER several times). The list can go on. Ever visited the Detriot VA?





I've been in the VA for 30 years in 4 different hospital and 2 clinics all over New England and my experience is totally positive even when that was the only health insurance I had.

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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: sweeper54]
    #24160925 - 03/14/17 07:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

How are obamacare premiums calculated ? Is it a set number of $ for everyone or is it a % of your income ?

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: sweeper54]
    #24161284 - 03/14/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Im glad....you earned it.

It does seem the same level of care is not standardized geographically. This link regarding Detriot VA


http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20161211/OPINION01/161219987/keith-crain-poor-state-of-detroit-va-hospital-is-simply-inexcusable


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (03/14/17 10:36 AM)

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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #24178518 - 03/20/17 05:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)


Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/employees-who-decline-genetic-testing-could-face-penalities-under-proposed-bill/?utm_term=.8e08a40cae40

Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.

In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.

Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets...

Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.

In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.

Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets.

The bill is under review by other House committees and still must be considered by the Senate. But it has already faced strong criticism from a broad array of groups, as well as House Democrats. In a letter sent to the committee earlier this week, nearly 70 organizations— representing consumer, health and medical advocacy groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, AARP, March of Dimes and the National Women's Law Center — said the legislation, if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions of the Americans With Disabilities Act and the 2008 Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA).

Congress passed GINA to prohibit discrimination by health insurers and employers based on the information that people carry in their genes. There is an exception that allows for employees to provide that information as part of voluntary wellness programs. But the law states that employee participation must be entirely voluntary, with no incentives for providing the data or penalties for not providing it.

But the House legislation would allow employers to impose penalties of up to 30 percent of the total cost of the employee's health insurance on those who choose to keep such information private.

“It's a terrible Hobson's choice between affordable health insurance and protecting one's genetic privacy,” said Derek Scholes, director of science policy at the American Society of Human Genetics, which represents human genetics specialists. The organization sent a letter to the committee opposing the bill.

The average annual premium for employer-sponsored family health coverage in 2016 was $18,142, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Under the plan proposed in the bill, a wellness program could charge employees an extra $5,443 in annual premiums if they choose not to share their genetic and health information.

The bill, Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, HR 1313, was introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx, (R-N.C.), who chairs the Committee on Education and the Workforce. A committee statement said the bill provides employers “the legal certainty they need to offer employee wellness plans, helping to promote a healthy workforce and lower health care costs.” It passed on a party-line vote, with all 22 Republicans supporting it and all 17 Democrats opposed.

The bill’s supporters in the business community have argued that competing regulations in federal laws make it too difficult for companies to offer these wellness programs. In congressional testimony this month, the American Benefits Council, which represents major employers, said the burdensome rules jeopardize wellness programs that improve employee health, can increase productivity and reduce health care spending.

:nursegellar: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue]
    #24178548 - 03/20/17 05:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Nearly 70 organizations— representing consumer, health and medical advocacy groups — said the legislation, if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions.

Under the plan proposed in the bill, a wellness program could charge employees an extra $5,443 in annual premiums if they choose not to share their genetic and health information.



This is what health care reform looks like?  :wtf:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24178692 - 03/20/17 07:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Dumpcare will never see the light of day.

Unfortunately for the Dems

Edited by sweeper54 (03/20/17 07:10 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: vinsue]
    #24178930 - 03/20/17 09:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:

Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/employees-who-decline-genetic-testing-could-face-penalities-under-proposed-bill/?utm_term=.8e08a40cae40

Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.

In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.

Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets...

Employers could impose hefty penalties on employees who decline to participate in genetic testing as part of workplace wellness programs if a bill approved by a U.S. House committee this week becomes law.

In general, employers don't have that power under existing federal laws, which protect genetic privacy and nondiscrimination. But a bill passed Wednesday by the House Committee on Education and the Workforce would allow employers to get around those obstacles if the information is collected as part of a workplace wellness program.

Such programs — which offer workers a variety of carrots and sticks to monitor and improve their health, such as lowering cholesterol — have become increasingly popular with companies. Some offer discounts on health insurance to employees who complete health-risk assessments. Others might charge people more for smoking. Under the Affordable Care Act, employers are allowed to discount health insurance premiums by up to 30 percent — and in some cases 50 percent — for employees who voluntarily participate in a wellness program where they're required to meet certain health targets.

The bill is under review by other House committees and still must be considered by the Senate. But it has already faced strong criticism from a broad array of groups, as well as House Democrats. In a letter sent to the committee earlier this week, nearly 70 organizations— representing consumer, health and medical advocacy groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, AARP, March of Dimes and the National Women's Law Center — said the legislation, if enacted, would undermine basic privacy provisions of the Americans With Disabilities Act and the 2008 Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA).

Congress passed GINA to prohibit discrimination by health insurers and employers based on the information that people carry in their genes. There is an exception that allows for employees to provide that information as part of voluntary wellness programs. But the law states that employee participation must be entirely voluntary, with no incentives for providing the data or penalties for not providing it.

But the House legislation would allow employers to impose penalties of up to 30 percent of the total cost of the employee's health insurance on those who choose to keep such information private.

“It's a terrible Hobson's choice between affordable health insurance and protecting one's genetic privacy,” said Derek Scholes, director of science policy at the American Society of Human Genetics, which represents human genetics specialists. The organization sent a letter to the committee opposing the bill.

The average annual premium for employer-sponsored family health coverage in 2016 was $18,142, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Under the plan proposed in the bill, a wellness program could charge employees an extra $5,443 in annual premiums if they choose not to share their genetic and health information.

The bill, Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, HR 1313, was introduced by Rep. Virginia Foxx, (R-N.C.), who chairs the Committee on Education and the Workforce. A committee statement said the bill provides employers “the legal certainty they need to offer employee wellness plans, helping to promote a healthy workforce and lower health care costs.” It passed on a party-line vote, with all 22 Republicans supporting it and all 17 Democrats opposed.

The bill’s supporters in the business community have argued that competing regulations in federal laws make it too difficult for companies to offer these wellness programs. In congressional testimony this month, the American Benefits Council, which represents major employers, said the burdensome rules jeopardize wellness programs that improve employee health, can increase productivity and reduce health care spending.

:nursegellar: . . . :peace:





Hang on, so the death panels that Obama never made are gonna end up being a Trump thing?

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: Kryptos]
    #24186842 - 03/23/17 05:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Didn't trump say he was a great negotiator? This health care bill is a total embarrassment. The incompetence is stunning. You control both houses of congress and the White House and you can't pass a fucking bill?

Btw, trump sat back and let someone else design this bill. He had nothing to do with it. He's such a fraud, it really pisses me off. I can't believe this dullard is president.

I just saw an interview with a republican congressman who says he now wants to fix obamacare. LOL


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/23/17 05:59 PM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #24186877 - 03/23/17 06:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Maybe you missed the point.  Let me break it down:

Canada spends about $500 per citizen per year on their military.  We spend about $2,000 per citizen per year.  Got that so far?

That means, we spend $1,500 more per citizen per year.  If we didn't spend that, we'd have about $450 billion that could then be spent on healthcare.

Or, put another way, Canada can afford it because they have about $1,500 more per citizen to play with because they rely on our military to protect them.





Nice breakdown,

we have more money than Canada

So why can't we do healthcare like Canada?



Because socialism


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Dumpcare [Re: koods] * 2
    #24186898 - 03/23/17 06:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Single payer healthcare isn't socialism.


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