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hostileuniverse
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24151148 - 03/10/17 11:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:I've even been cautiously optimistic about him.

Surely obama has, welfare spending is up, home ownership is down, national debt is doubled, median incomes down, and 40 year men can shower with 11 year old girls, these are all things that make for a strong middle class
What has trump done? Nothing!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Kryptos]
#24151397 - 03/10/17 12:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Falcon91Wolvrn03Reason for deletion: Nevermind, I missed the sarcasm.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24151428 - 03/10/17 01:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: As the recent election demonstrated, most people don't seem to want the government to go ahead and restructure the work week and wage adjustments. Especially now that business magnates are apparently presidential contenders. I'd be less surprised if the government extended the week an additional 20 hours and got rid of overtime pay as a concept.
Did someone campaign on this?
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qman
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24151618 - 03/10/17 02:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So no support for Trump other than qman saying "none of those things are ever going to happen"???
That's a surprise to me considering how much people said they believed in him. Actually, it's not a surprise given that I'm personally not aware of Trump doing anything at all for the working class.
It's very similar to Obama in 2008, he gave the best campaign speeches with tons of great promises, the problem- it was a huge pile of bullshit. Trump is just the opposite side of that coin.
The lesson here is that Joe Six-Pack isn't going to get the wealthy to change their highly profitable tactics by driving to the voting booth, not gonna happen.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: qman]
#24153234 - 03/11/17 07:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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THe middle class did not progress at all under Obama. 53% were middle class before him, 44% in 2014. A loss of 9%. Most of them went to the lower class instead of graduating to the hgher class. But it's not 100% obama's fault. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
The problem is that you can be middle class with or without an education. Those without an education have been completely forgotten. Its undeniable that manufacturing jobs have left the country. You cant expect every guy that worked in a factory their entire life to go back to university and become engineers. Some will, most won't. Instead they end up being cashiers or they end up doing menial work or go on unemployment because there's only so much minimum jobs out there. Plus most of them are filled by illegals who are willing to accept salvery salaries. I'm 100% certain that a single mom struggling to make ends meet would happily clean toilets or pick berries at a farm for minimum salary.
Trump wants to remove the illegals and force companies to stay in the US which will undeniably help these people. Right now Trump is doing everything that is needed to make it easy for companies to stay by slashing regulations, soon to be lowering taxes for corporations which is amazing cause at the endd of the day, these corporations are the one creating jobs and forcing them to build in the US will hire American workers. Cutting Mexico out of NAFTA will give companies no reasons to go there.
Trump will by far be waaaaay better than Obama for the working man.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Patlal]
#24153741 - 03/11/17 11:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Obama gets credit for the market cycle bounceback that wouldve happened under any sane president. And he gets credit for the the widening inequality gap that widens when these "jobless recoveries" happen, too.
As far as Trump, he can want whatever the fuck he says he wants. Not gonna change the economic power structure.
At least under the Dems, the middle class was promised some scraps. Now we just get to starve for 4 years and hope all the food isnt poisoned by the time we get to eat again.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper


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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Patlal] 2
#24153805 - 03/11/17 11:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trump will by far be waaaaay better than Obama for the working man.
The Republican Party and trump are anti union , I've been in a construction union for 13 years and I'm kinda wondering how an anti union party will better for me ?
Quote:
mployment because there's only so much minimum jobs out there. Plus most of them are filled by illegals who are willing to accept salvery salaries. I'm 100% certain that a single mom struggling to make ends meet would happily clean toilets or pick berries at a farm for minimum salary.
. California and Canada trade allot of stuff related to farming and food . We exported 4.4 billion to Canada in 2015 . 250 million in strawberries , about a billion in veggies , 400 million in wine and millions of dollars of other shit . I'm guessing with 100 % legal membership the united farm workers union would have more power and leverage over farm employers and the workers could possibly make more money like you say . What I'm getting at here is the only way what your saying can happen is if we are all willing to pay more for food , Canadians too , either that or you look for cheaper shit somewhere else which means less trade which probably won't be good . I'm cool with paying more for food , I make 2 to 3 time more money than non union people who do my job . They may not like having to pay more for food , or probably already struggle to buy food, it's expensive as fuck , even with Slave labor or piece work .
http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/industry-markets-and-trade/statistics-and-market-information/agriculture-and-food-market-information-by-region/united-states-and-mexico/trade-data-and-analysis/california-canada-agricultural-trade/?id=1386706014097
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Patlal] 1
#24153823 - 03/11/17 11:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: THe middle class did not progress at all under Obama. 53% were middle class before him, 44% in 2014. A loss of 9%. Most of them went to the lower class instead of graduating to the hgher class. But it's not 100% obama's fault. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
The middle class has been shrinking ever since Reagan gave the country to the rich. Trump said he wants to put Reagan's trickle down policies into high gear.
Quote:
Patlal said: You cant expect every guy that worked in a factory their entire life to go back to university and become engineers. Some will, most won't. Instead they end up being cashiers or they end up doing menial work or go on unemployment because there's only so much minimum jobs out there.
There's PLENTY of minimum wage jobs out there; that's why the unemployment rate is so low right now. The problem is that the real minimum wage is lower than ever and unions are just about dead so people at the low end don't make nearly as much as they used to. In fact 40% Of US Workers Now Earn Less Than 1968 Minimum Wage!
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Patlal said: Plus most of them are filled by illegals who are willing to accept salvery salaries. I'm 100% certain that a single mom struggling to make ends meet would happily clean toilets or pick berries at a farm for minimum salary.
But we have enough of those jobs for everyone. The problem is they aren't paying enough. THAT'S the problem Trump needs to fix.
Quote:
Patlal said: Trump will by far be waaaaay better than Obama for the working man.
By giving even more to the rich???
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#24153865 - 03/11/17 12:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Who would have thought that flooding our country with cheap labor would lead to lower wages...

As for unions, Trump is working to pass another TRILLION dollar stimulus to rebuild and repair our country, surely the unions will be getting some work out of that.
As for obama, his legacy is clear, he presided over the "recovery" and to that he gets the credit. It has been recognized as the weakest recovery in history. Wall Street made out like fat cats but the rest of the country was left with shitty part time low wage jobs and a health care bill none of us can afford,
I'll just leave these here...

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koods
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#24154200 - 03/11/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your charts are flat out lies.
Real median income is $56,516. (2016 isn't out yet but is expect to jump another couple thousand dollars since real income has exploded under obama in the past few years )
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
Edit found the data: November 2016 real median household income was $58,221. https://www.google.com/amp/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4033514-real-median-household-income-slow-growth-2016
As for expansion of debt, the debt grew less under obama than it did under GWB and Reagan. Reagan it grew 300%
Anyone who includes labor participation rate in their arguments is a joke who doesn't have the first clue about economics
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/11/17 03:02 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24154210 - 03/11/17 02:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why is trump bragging about the worst February jobs report in three years?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,700
Loc: Utah
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24154222 - 03/11/17 03:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Neither.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24154242 - 03/11/17 03:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Your charts are flat out lies.
Real median income is $56,516. (2016 isn't out yet but is expect to jump another couple thousand dollars since real income has exploded under obama in the past few years )
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
Edit found the data: November 2016 real median household income was $58,221. https://www.google.com/amp/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4033514-real-median-household-income-slow-growth-2016
From your source
Quote:
In real dollar terms, the median annual income is 1.0% lower (-$605) than its interim high in January 2008
That further proves my point, Americans are worse off now than when obama took office, sad
The rest of the info is also accurate, home ownership down, food stamp use up, debt doubled, these are not markers of a successfully run economy or job market,
As for the LPR, you can ignore it if you like, most leftists do, but one thing is for sure, the way the employment numbers are tallied is an absolute joke.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#24154289 - 03/11/17 03:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Obama took office in January 2009, not 2008
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods] 3
#24154292 - 03/11/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do you know how employment numbers are tallied?
Do you think It's important if your 90 year old grandmother has a job? If so, then I guess the LPR is important.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/11/17 03:39 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24154299 - 03/11/17 03:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Automation is evil!
*sets up a server-bank to mine Bitcoin*
yeah, it sucks!
Quote:
koods said: His entire premise that trade is what is killing middle class jobs, especially manufacturing, is bullshit. Manufacturing output is at an all time high. 90% of manufacturing jobs since 2000 have been lost to automation. Addressing the increasing obsolescence of human labor would be a refreshing thing to see from a politician.
alot of people seem to be convinced otherwise.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: akira_akuma]
#24154332 - 03/11/17 03:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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well how else are we supposed to demonize non-Americans?
Just kidding, theres hundreds of ways.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#24154336 - 03/11/17 03:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I bet the robots are japanese
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/11/17 03:55 PM)
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#24154430 - 03/11/17 04:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: Automation is evil!
*sets up a server-bank to mine Bitcoin*
yeah, it sucks!
Quote:
koods said: His entire premise that trade is what is killing middle class jobs, especially manufacturing, is bullshit. Manufacturing output is at an all time high. 90% of manufacturing jobs since 2000 have been lost to automation. Addressing the increasing obsolescence of human labor would be a refreshing thing to see from a politician.
alot of people seem to be convinced otherwise.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: well how else are we supposed to demonize non-Americans?
Just kidding, theres hundreds of ways.
You both ignore the flooding of cheap labor by illegals, another thing that trump is trying to fix, and not getting any support from the democrats by the way.
Do you know what happens to wages during a labor shortage? They go up
Do you know what happens to wages when there is an oversupply of cheap labor???
To deny that is to deny reality, automation isn't killing the middle class, low wages are
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Webster10
Up like Trump



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#24154463 - 03/11/17 04:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Obama gets credit for the market cycle bounceback that wouldve happened under any sane president. And he gets credit for the the widening inequality gap that widens when these "jobless recoveries" happen, too.
As far as Trump, he can want whatever the fuck he says he wants. Not gonna change the economic power structure.
At least under the Dems, the middle class was promised some scraps. Now we just get to starve for 4 years and hope all the food isnt poisoned by the time we get to eat again.
the left is full of leeches
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