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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,849
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods] 1
#24162700 - 03/14/17 07:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
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Patlal said:
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koods said: Why do you hate small business? Why do you hate the US economy?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-immigrants-economic-impact-20170223-story.html
Post an article saying this from Oklahoma and I might believe you. Nothing coming out of California can be trusted. Too biased.
Also, if these businesses can't thrive without hiring people at slave salaries, it deserves to go bankrupt and the owner needs to spend time inside to reconsider the value of human labor.
http://m.newsok.com/article/3942187
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-01-09-immigcover_N.htm

Ok then...
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Webster10
Up like Trump



Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24163541 - 03/15/17 04:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Why do you hate small business? Why do you hate the US economy?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-immigrants-economic-impact-20170223-story.html
Hahahahaha are you seriously trying to post an article saying illegal immigrating is GOOD for small businesses in Florida? No. Just no. So much fucking no. You're a D.C. Lib that knows absolutely nothing about business in florida. How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses. I swear, some people will literally believe anything if it's written online.
Edit: attempted to read article, couldn't, too stupid. Saw that it said cali though. My point still stands about Florida
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Edited by Webster10 (03/15/17 04:50 AM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Webster10]
#24163586 - 03/15/17 05:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Webster10 said: How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses.
Sure, how do we do that? And if we can't, why don't you tell us?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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relic
of a bygone era


Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,624
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#24163772 - 03/15/17 08:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Webster10 said: How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses.
Sure, how do we do that? And if we can't, why don't you tell us?
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24163777 - 03/15/17 08:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: They became "liberal" after they had the economic prosperity in the first place, hiking the minimum without it hurting the employment rate is the result of economic prosperity, not the other way around, that's why you're confusing the result with the policy.
I've repeatedly presented empirical evidence showing that nominally raising minimum wage doesn't increase unemployment in the long term. If you can prove it does, please provide your evidence like I do (Burden of Proof).
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qman said: Hiking the minimum wage in India, China and Africa isn't going to create another California.
Bringing the economic polices of California to Mississippi, Alabama, Michigan, and Wisconsin isn't going to change their economic fundamentals. 
Burden of Proof, my friend. Please show us where a nominal increase to minimum wage has been a failure. 
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Jerry Brown raised taxes in California again, and now we have a budget surplus. It's basic math.
It's very small and it won't last, want to make a bet on it? 
We're now spending more as a result of the surplus, so the surplus won't last. However, I'll bet that higher taxes on the rich always leads to higher tax revenue. It's basic math.
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qman said: You haven't shown any evidence, all you have stated is that economic strength can afford liberal policies, not that liberal polices create economic strength.
The US did very well under liberal FDR policies, even through our economic ups and downs. This ended ever since we shifted to conservative trickle down policies, even through our economic ups and downs. You clearly have the cause and effect backwards.
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qman said: If the solution was so simply, why does 71% of the global population live on $10 bucks per day, is everybody so stupid?
Wage increases have to be gradual. Show me a state where a nominal minimum wage increase wasn't successful. Yes, people are very stupid.
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: when people are given more money to spend, their countries do better
No, when people EARN more money as the result of economic prosperity, their countries do better. If just "given" people more money to spend was the key for economic prosperity, then tell Africa to fired up those printing presses, unfortunately the real world doesn't work that way. 
Again, show me where a nominal minimum wage increase hasn't worked. 
"raising the minimum wage doesn't increase unemployment in the long term"
Hiking the minimum wage very slowly in the US has NOT increased unemployment, that's because the minimum wage increases have been below the inflation and economic growth rates.
That does NOT mean that if the minimum wage was hiked above those levels of inflation and economic growth, it wouldn't increase unemployment because it would. If any state or country hikes the rate too high, it will cause unemployment. If Ohio hike their minimum wage to $17 per hour, it would obviously be problematic, since no one is stupid enough to do it, we don't have a case study of the horrible results. That doesn't mean hiking the minimum wage won't increase unemployment.
"please show us where nominal increase in minimum wage has been a failure"
That's the point, all of the minimum wage increases in the US have been nominal. Therefore the chance of a "failure" is unlikely. The current minimum wage mandates are very low, that's does NOT mean there's a breaking point IF it were to be hike too high relative to economic growth.
"I'll bet that higher taxes on the rich always leads to higher tax revenue"
Not always, you do realize that tax rates change behavior? You do realize economic growth rates dictate tax revenue? It's not as simple as basic math, because everything isn't always equal, you change one variable and you sometimes end up with completely different outcomes.
"wage increase have to be gradual"
That's true, but "gradual" is a relative term. You can't create economic prosperity by mandating higher minimum wages that don't keep up with economic growth rates.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24163785 - 03/15/17 08:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
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koods said: Why do you hate small business? Why do you hate the US economy?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-immigrants-economic-impact-20170223-story.html
Post an article saying this from Oklahoma and I might believe you. Nothing coming out of California can be trusted. Too biased.
Also, if these businesses can't thrive without hiring people at slave salaries, it deserves to go bankrupt and the owner needs to spend time inside to reconsider the value of human labor.
http://m.newsok.com/article/3942187
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-01-09-immigcover_N.htm
Nobody has an problem with work visas, the issue is illegal immigration, why do you confuse the issues all the time?
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: qman] 1
#24164037 - 03/15/17 10:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: vinsue]
#24164105 - 03/15/17 11:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said: https://www.h1b.io/blog/us-immigration-ban-affect-h1b-visas/
I should have stated no one cares about the H-1B visas in the political world today. I have issue with high skilled/educated foreigners coming into the US and taking jobs from college graduates.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#24164233 - 03/15/17 12:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Webster10 said: How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses.
Sure, how do we do that? And if we can't, why don't you tell us?
I imagine his dad is the source of his ignorance, TBH
I don't know why he thinks Florida is special. We have just as many illegals in this area.
Actually, maryland has 50% more illegals per capita than Florida.
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/us-immigration-policy-program-data-hub/unauthorized-immigrant-population-profiles
Edited by koods (03/15/17 12:49 PM)
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Webster10
Up like Trump



Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24164244 - 03/15/17 12:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Webster10 said: How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses.
Sure, how do we do that? And if we can't, why don't you tell us?
I'll ask him to put it in his own words and get back to you with what he says
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Webster10
Up like Trump



Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24164248 - 03/15/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Webster10 said: How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses.
Sure, how do we do that? And if we can't, why don't you tell us?
I imagine his dad is the source of his ignorance, TBH
You really are an asshole sometimes. But no, my millionaire father isn't the one who instilled my conservative values. That was definitely more my mom.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Webster10]
#24164266 - 03/15/17 12:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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My county's population is 8.5% illegal immigrant. Tell me more about not knowing about the issue.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods] 2
#24164310 - 03/15/17 01:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why are the strongest correlations between areas with strong trump support a low illegal immigrant population and rampant drug abuse? They think illegals are stealing their jobs but really the problem is they can't pass a drug test.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods] 1
#24164399 - 03/15/17 02:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Webster10 said: How about you trying talking to my dad, the other executives at his company and they can explain to you the real impact of illegal immigration on FL businesses.
Sure, how do we do that? And if we can't, why don't you tell us?
I imagine his dad is the source of his ignorance, TBH
I don't know why he thinks Florida is special. We have just as many illegals in this area.
Actually, maryland has 50% more illegals per capita than Florida.
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/us-immigration-policy-program-data-hub/unauthorized-immigrant-population-profiles
I've lived in Florida for over 20 years, so its safe to say I'm an expert on anything that happens in this state.
And lemme tell ya, illegals are the least of our concern.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24164426 - 03/15/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Why are the strongest correlations between areas with strong trump support a low illegal immigrant population and rampant drug abuse? They think illegals are stealing their jobs but really the problem is they can't pass a drug test.
In my state (which Trump lost), the most affluent and educated towns/small cities had overwhelming majority votes for Trump, how do you figure for that result?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#24164429 - 03/15/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is it face eating zombie canibals?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 55 seconds
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: qman] 1
#24164430 - 03/15/17 02:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
koods said: Why are the strongest correlations between areas with strong trump support a low illegal immigrant population and rampant drug abuse? They think illegals are stealing their jobs but really the problem is they can't pass a drug test.
In my state (which Trump lost), the most affluent and educated towns/small cities had overwhelming majority votes for Trump, how do you figure for that result?
You're making it up.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: koods]
#24164444 - 03/15/17 02:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
koods said: Why are the strongest correlations between areas with strong trump support a low illegal immigrant population and rampant drug abuse? They think illegals are stealing their jobs but really the problem is they can't pass a drug test.
In my state (which Trump lost), the most affluent and educated towns/small cities had overwhelming majority votes for Trump, how do you figure for that result?
You're making it up.
I swear I'm not, my paper posted the election results for each town and city in my state of Connecticut.
Since it's a small state, I know the social-economic makeup of each part of the state.
Trump lost the large urban areas that were full of minorities, other than that he won the wealthy/educated smaller cities and towns.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: qman] 1
#24164470 - 03/15/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "raising the minimum wage doesn't increase unemployment in the long term"
Hiking the minimum wage very slowly in the US has NOT increased unemployment, that's because the minimum wage increases have been below the inflation and economic growth rates.
That's an excellent point actually. Not only have minimum wage increases not kept up with inflation and economic growth, they are WAY, WAY, behind. By your own logic, we should be able to raise minimum wage up to the 1968 level (~11/hr adjusted for inflation), plus the growth per capita since then, which has more than doubled:

So we should be fighting for a $22/hr minimum wage. Are you finally with me finally, or are you going to change your mind now?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,728
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Re: Obama vs Trump - Who's better for middle class America??? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#24164474 - 03/15/17 02:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Obama was great for the super poor and trump for the super rich . I don't think either of them are good for the middle class
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa, Jellyfish Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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