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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Things used to be free
    #2414750 - 03/10/04 01:42 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

200 years ago a man could get 160 acres of land for free. He only had to make a claim on it. He could build a log cabin or a dugout in a matter of a few weeks. His water was free from a well or creek, and his food came from his farm and game hunting.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2415134 - 03/10/04 02:56 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Now there are corporations and over populated areas. Man must attain great amounts of education and experience, then work in a career to obtain money. Then he must take out loans and get a mortgage. Then he may live in the premade cookie cutter house and obtain his water from an on-site well or from the local city government. His food comes from corporate chain restaraunts and huge industrial farms that sell mass amounts of food to large grocery distributors.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: NariusFractal]
    #2415538 - 03/10/04 04:26 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

yeah, which is better?


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2415548 - 03/10/04 04:28 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

That's a really weighted question.

More power means we have more responsibility. This is the cause of lost freedoms. However, less technology means harder work hours in the field, but you are working for you. not for some other chump.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: NariusFractal]
    #2415560 - 03/10/04 04:29 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

People are working longer and longer hours in spite of technological advances.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2415596 - 03/10/04 04:36 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

So work is a must for physical needs to be met.

Now we have a lot more comforts and air conditioners. Is it the air-conditioned Nightmare suggested by Henry Miller? Or is it a sort of technologically aided Utopia? Dunno. I'd love to live ona farm and support myself. However, I'd miss having all the creature comforts and the amazing medical care we have now.

This is about America btw.


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OfflineMadHamish
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: NariusFractal]
    #2415702 - 03/10/04 04:57 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Amazing medical care if ye can afford it mr America

In return for taken freedoms I expect that a state, institution, honours its duties like, for example, meeting the medical needs of every denizen of that state regardless of income, status, gender, race...

Amazing medical care as in technology, aye


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Valar Morghulis


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2416019 - 03/10/04 06:23 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

I'm really conflicted about this. I don't really think I'm much of a materialist, but I enjoy the big city atmosphere, just because there's more to do. On the other hand, I'd love to simplify my life and not be so wasteful. The thing is, I don't think I'd make a good farmer, since farmers are supposed to get up at the crack of dawn, and I personally like to sleep in.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: MadHamish]
    #2416024 - 03/10/04 06:24 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Why on earth would it be the duty of the state to provide you medical care?

What freedoms have you lost that make you think you are owed compensation by free medical care?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineMadHamish
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2416158 - 03/10/04 07:06 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Freedoms I have lost? The freedom to eat or smoke any plant I want, the freedom to do with my land what I want, the freedom to work for myself, etc

free medical care: not what I said (I could only wish that were to be true, like in Kuwait)

In most countries in Europe, States ensure that the medical needs of the people are met by providing good quality health care. It is considered your RIGHT to have access to good quality health care. Every inhabitant, that means 100% of the population, is paying for social insurance regardless of income. If one wants the Rolls Royce treatment, ahum, one needs only to pay more for the required options. In these Beverage/Bismarckian systems social solidarity plays a key role, be it through the state or through insurance companies.
In this system nobody will be left in a degrading position that shuts them off any healthcare, contrary to quite a lot of countries (including the USA...).


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Valar Morghulis


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: MadHamish]
    #2416185 - 03/10/04 07:12 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Yeah over in the uk we get free health care its not perfect but it does save lives and i think thats why people join that kinda of profession not to make money but to help people.

Of course it cant be totaly free but it should be a right to every one on the planet
because who realy like to see peolpe suffer.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


Edited by jezu (03/10/04 07:35 PM)


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

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Re: Things used to be free *DELETED* [Re: MadHamish]
    #2416187 - 03/10/04 07:13 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Post deleted by jezu cos of double post :rolleyes:


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


Edited by jezu (03/10/04 07:36 PM)


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OfflineMadHamish
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: EvilGir]
    #2416236 - 03/10/04 07:28 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

aye


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2416341 - 03/10/04 08:06 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

200 years ago you could get land on the frontiers for free but you still had taxes to pay. What good is land to the government? Give it away and get taxes. Taxes on our farm in Wisconsin were $300 a month and we worked hard long days. Taxes on our home in Florida are $300 a month and we still got to work.

I lived on a sailboat for a couple of years for practicaly nothing. Renters are not liable to lose their homestead when busted. It's hardly worth the effort and insurance to own land. Besides no one really owns it anyway


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: silversoul7]
    #2416352 - 03/10/04 08:09 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I enjoy the big city atmosphere, just because there's more to do. 




Someone once said living in the country was like being half dead :mad:


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: MadHamish]
    #2416354 - 03/10/04 08:09 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

True, you didn't say free.  Sorry for putting words in your mouth, or fingers as it were.  :tongue:

Here in the US,  everyone still gets emergency health care when warranted.  Though this isn't free.  Someone pays for it.

While yes, it may be a right in some countries that declare it in their laws, it isn't a natural right.

I think most would agree that the vast majority of the advances in health care came from the fact that money could be made.  If you put limits on that aspect, advances will be stifled.

You still have the freedom to work for yourself, but yes, the others are absent, but not lost.  And we really have no one to blame but ourselves.

Does this really belong in S&P?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: castaway]
    #2416963 - 03/10/04 11:45 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Robert Pirsig once said that it was madness to be convinced that the big city is where it's at. Anyone who lives in the country can testify to that.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2417030 - 03/10/04 11:59 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

I will testify my brother... amen to that!


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineQuintessence
I am Hydrogen

Registered: 11/25/02
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2417652 - 03/11/04 03:07 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Things are not the way they used to be.



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OfflineFrog
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Re: Things used to be free [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2417678 - 03/11/04 03:16 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
Robert Pirsig once said that it was madness to be convinced that the big city is where it's at. Anyone who lives in the country can testify to that.




The silence of the country and the absence of hordes of people would make me crazy. I like the rush and bustle of the city. I like business.

I love driving through the country, but there's nothing but sky and earth. Beautiful, but you can only look at it for so long.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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