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Invisibledizzy_simmons
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Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Interzone
Any Builders Here? Berm Concrete Walls?
    #24146297 - 03/08/17 01:11 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

My yard currently slopes down to a concrete wall of my house, I would like to install a french drain parallel to my house and berm the wall with dirt to insulate that part of the house, give me more space for gardening, and direct water away from my house.  I think the below grade part was tarred, but the rest is already permeable to water vapor, right? So is there any risk in piling earth against a concrete wall as I intend?


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Any Builders Here? Berm Concrete Walls? [Re: dizzy_simmons]
    #24146388 - 03/08/17 01:40 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dizzy_simmons said:
My yard currently slopes down to a concrete wall of my house, I would like to install a french drain parallel to my house and berm the wall with dirt to insulate that part of the house, give me more space for gardening, and direct water away from my house.  I think the below grade part was tarred, but the rest is already permeable to water vapor, right? So is there any risk in piling earth against a concrete wall as I intend?




Ask the guys at the Oroville Dam how that earth against their concrete wall of the emergency spillway worked out. 

Are you trying to avoid digging, just gonna lay your french drain pipe alongside the wall and stack dirt?  Is the wall free standing, or is it an external wall on your house?  Could it collapse?

Normally you dig down maybe 18", remove the dirt, put in your drain pipe wrapped with landscape clothe, and backfill ideally with drain rock.  The idea is to get the water away from your house and not collect or puddle or sit against your foundation or get so high it gets into your house.

Anyway, more detail would be nice.


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Invisibledizzy_simmons
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Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Interzone
Re: Any Builders Here? Berm Concrete Walls? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24147015 - 03/08/17 06:04 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I intend to place the French drain about eight feet from the wall (I will be digging it), but I want to berm the external wall of my house so that the ground slopes down towards the French drain from both sides, instead of sloping to my house as it does now. Is that enough detail?

I don't think it could collapse, but I'm not a professional :shrug:
I'm more concerned about the wall allowing (more) moisture into the house and/or cracking when it freezes.


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UNDO YOUR DOMESTICATION

Looking for:
***The Land of the Free***

Ps. caerulipes  Ps. cubensis  Ps. cyanescens  Ps. ovoideocystidiata  Pan. cinctulus  Pan. cyanescens


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Any Builders Here? Berm Concrete Walls? [Re: dizzy_simmons]
    #24148110 - 03/09/17 06:18 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dizzy_simmons said:
I intend to place the French drain about eight feet from the wall (I will be digging it), but I want to berm the external wall of my house so that the ground slopes down towards the French drain from both sides, instead of sloping to my house as it does now. Is that enough detail?

I don't think it could collapse, but I'm not a professional :shrug:
I'm more concerned about the wall allowing (more) moisture into the house and/or cracking when it freezes.




http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-French-Drain

You may not need to berm up the dirt as much as you think.  1" per 10 ft? so a few inches of slope should work.  As long as the dirt can't contact wood of the house you should be ok stacking it against the house so it slopes away from the house.  Generally you want dirt away from your house so even drain rock along the outside or crushed gravel would help.  You want it to get dry there not hold water against the wall.  DriLock works pretty good on the wall itself to keep things dry inside.


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Invisibleichbinschizophren
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Registered: 01/25/17
Posts: 84
Re: Any Builders Here? Berm Concrete Walls? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24168900 - 03/17/17 01:16 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Concrete can vary quite a lot in how it reacts to water vapor and liquid water ....but it can soak up a rediculous amount of water if it's in contact with dirt.

I'd say extend the vapor barrier up at least 6in past where you want the dirt to come to on the wall, to prevent the wicking effect where one bit of wall exposed sucks it up like a sponge, and over long term weakens the wall.

That said, I definately agree with the drain and making your ground slope away from your house for fixing moisture problems :smile:

Without knowing your wall's specs-and if there was no bad weather when it was setting to bugger those specs up- and those of your infill dirt, I couldn't say whether the extra weight load would be okay ( whole lot of maths and depends on your local building codes anyway) remember that unless it was specifically designed to be bermed (whether for thermal mass, aesthetics, or water management) it's probably deigned to withstand only compressive load, rather than lateral forces, and a high berm can mean literal tons pressing from one side only :smile:  Also to consider is other loads (eg, if you're in cyclone/hurricane territory, or places where snow load comes along and buggers up your calculations... though I'm guessing if you're somewhere with major snow loads would make them code for a pile of heavy stuff pressing sideways from the outside :P)

If it were me, I'd seriously consider installing some bracing on the interior for a high berm (either chunk up the floor in the areas needed, re-lay the foundation in that area or rent an industrial drill so you can add vertical rebar, to allow properly tied in half-height brick pillars) but if you just want a little berm at the minimum height to let water run away from your house rather than a full height one, assuming you're not at the bottom of a major slope, just the vapour barrier and no bracing pillars should be fine, and applying some internal or external insulation panels would make up for the lack of thermal mass. Though that'd be a pain in the ass and more work/expense. :/ If moisture inside is a problem, a little through-wall fan vent to outside can help get the humidity back outside where it belongs :smile:

source: Dad does public works and did heavy re-contouring of his place's yard, I'm an owner builder on a slope, and live in the tropics, where water management is Serious Business
Aside from 'wet walls. wet floor. Moldy everything' being the normal result from people skipping the extended barrier, the word 'concrete cancer' is a commonly used term here for spalling, the thing when cement-based building structures basically start crumbling from ingress of moisture, with chunks of corners and surfaces flaking off :p Can kill a building in under a decade in really wet climates, but if you're living somewhere annual rainfall and average humidity is low, and you have quality concrete in your walls it might not happen in your lifetime :p

I have no idea what freezing or snow would do... never even seen snow.


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Edited by ichbinschizophren (03/17/17 01:31 AM)


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