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OfflineCrispykoot
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Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production * 1
    #24145678 - 03/08/17 07:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hey folks..Thought it would be good to try to discuss and verify ways to increase yield per square foot. I'm just thinking about CVG subs or coir based in general. Seems like people are comfy with the 1  ounce per liter of spawn yields, but I think there is a lot more potential.

Things in my head at the moment:

1) Increasing porosity in the substrate. Gas exchange in the sub...Moving water to the fruitbody efficiently is seemingly very important. Adding a coarse material, messing around with thickness, etc. With Cannabis production, we saw large increases in yield by increasing porosity in the sub.

2) Temperature variation...Night/Day...In Agaricus production, varying temps by 5-10 C produces thicker stipe and additional weight..My thought is to invert temps...Warmer at night and cooler during day. This is a trick used in the greenhouse industry to increase yield.

3) Consolidation...Seems like people are consolidating spawn before running it, but in edible production, we consolidate in the bulk sub..At least I do...Yields are greater if the sub is consolidated...then fruited. This is done with no light in my case.

4) Light cycle

5) Recirculating air versus FAE...

We have a big group...might be worth trying some trials...Any thoughts?


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OfflineMeyerLanski
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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24145729 - 03/08/17 08:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Water is extremely important, a dry substrate is garbage for production of any sort, also I prefer to use aquarium pumps on cyclic timer to feed fresh air every hour on the hour into my SGFC, this seems to make them crazy, also I use mixed grains for my substrates as well, WBS, Rye berries, wheat bran, and a lil poop, sterilized as normal, colonized then dumped into bulk monos or SGFC's this collaboration of food stuffs seems to skyrocket alkaloid levels as well as increase overall performance, yield etc. Hope some of my ramblings will help.


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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: MeyerLanski]
    #24146793 - 03/08/17 04:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Slow release nutrients may help. However after birthing you only have so much time. Ive read conola seed can be good for this.

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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Orbit]
    #24146811 - 03/08/17 04:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dunk in nutrient soup since mycelium grows so well in LC?

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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: MeyerLanski]
    #24148494 - 03/09/17 10:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MeyerLanski said:
Water is extremely important, a dry substrate is garbage for production of any sort, also I prefer to use aquarium pumps on cyclic timer to feed fresh air every hour on the hour into my SGFC, this seems to make them crazy, also I use mixed grains for my substrates as well, WBS, Rye berries, wheat bran, and a lil poop, sterilized as normal, colonized then dumped into bulk monos or SGFC's this collaboration of food stuffs seems to skyrocket alkaloid levels as well as increase overall performance, yield etc. Hope some of my ramblings will help.



:justno:
the water part is the only thing you got right


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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24152067 - 03/10/17 05:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:
Hey folks..Thought it would be good to try to discuss and verify ways to increase yield per square foot.



Yeild of fruits or actives? not necessarily the same thing...?

Quote:

Crispykoot said:3) Consolidation...Seems like people are consolidating spawn before running it, but in edible production, we consolidate in the bulk sub..At least I do...Yields are greater if the sub is consolidated...then fruited. This is done with no light in my case.



you will see posts about consolidating for long times leading to more potent fruits, so while having lower yields it does not mean less actives overall. It could be preferable to have lower but more potent yields. You will see EU sclerotia growers having "strains"/"types"/"names" which are supposedly more potent per gram than others. In recent times you will see evidience that all commonly sold commercial types are all actually mexicana, but some sell for higher prices and are supposed to be stronger per gram. Some say they are simply grown out for longer times before harvesting, and so could be stronger and would charge more simply since they are kept longer, so cost more to produce turnoverwise -but could be better value.

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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: blackout]
    #24155646 - 03/12/17 09:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

In my mind this would be working with active clones. A single clone of known activity and (relative) strength in different situations...

The goal being to determine which factors increase yield..

Does potency vary at all based on substrate type or consolidation? Can this be verified? I would love a link to that if so...

I honestly feel that GE in the sub, porosity of the sub, and thickness may have a measureable effect on yield.  All other things being equal...This has probably been done on here already...if not, it may be worth checking out...Lets see how people feel...


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OfflineKThunderland
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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24160387 - 03/13/17 10:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Im currently experimenting with using surfactants in the sub to in theory help with water absorption in later flushes ill lyk how it goes, the subs tend to become somehat hydrophobic after a while, im hoping it will help yeilds some.


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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24161538 - 03/14/17 12:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:
Does potency vary at all based on substrate type or consolidation?




have a read of this
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15181139

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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: blackout]
    #24176879 - 03/20/17 06:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

Crispykoot said:
Does potency vary at all based on substrate type or consolidation?




have a read of this
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15181139



Thanks B.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24184904 - 03/23/17 12:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the most obvious thing you could do is add some hpoo and straw, that would probably help on both accounts (fruits + actives)

sure has for me, i started getting crazy yeilds when i started using quality hpoo and straw

this tub was almost 3kg wet in a single flush, one fruit was 295g :eek:


mini mono:


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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24185428 - 03/23/17 08:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Straw = damn effective water supply
Problem is good luck giving away shrooms that weigh 7+ dried

Also for me big ass fruits dry differently like 100g fruit turns into 7g-8g but a 10g fruit usually dries to 0.85-0.95


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Edited by bodhisatta (03/23/17 08:48 AM)

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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24185686 - 03/23/17 10:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
the most obvious thing you could do is add some hpoo and straw, that would probably help on both accounts (fruits + actives)

sure has for me, i started getting crazy yeilds when i started using quality hpoo and straw

this tub was almost 3kg wet in a single flush, one fruit was 295g :eek:


mini mono:






How big was the tub? Is it MS or clone...Also the tub is very very over mature..No offence, but nothing you have said is anything more than anecdotal..

What is a good yield off of a 66 quart monotub? How about a mini 15?

I guess what I'm getting at is it seems that the complexity of the sub may not be the biggest yield factor, but its hard to tell without the data... It would be cool to compile some data to understand what works and what is a waste of energy.

I get awesome yields (BE)on my Oysters with no supplements, no gypsum, no ph adjusting, and a very low spawn rate of 10%...No need to make that more complex...I think its likely the same kind of thing with other mushies... Bodhi is getting what looks like good yields on straight coir..As for potency, I have no idea how to assess that.


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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24185700 - 03/23/17 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Potency is genetics. Spawn provides sufficient nutrients. People used to fruit just cased grain. Now we use substrate to supply moisture. Of course everyone wants to add nutrients but mycelium will digest it slower to not over heat, metabolic processes in a mono can be +5F easy.

Rather than using fancy substrate just throw in an extra jar of spawn.

Too much spawn has its own problems


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Re: Thoughts/ideas on ways to increase yield in Cubensis production [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24186100 - 03/23/17 12:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
the most obvious thing you could do is add some hpoo and straw, that would probably help on both accounts (fruits + actives)

sure has for me, i started getting crazy yeilds when i started using quality hpoo and straw

this tub was almost 3kg wet in a single flush, one fruit was 295g :eek:


mini mono:






How big was the tub? Is it MS or clone...Also the tub is very very over mature..No offence, but nothing you have said is anything more than anecdotal..

What is a good yield off of a 66 quart monotub? How about a mini 15?

I guess what I'm getting at is it seems that the complexity of the sub may not be the biggest yield factor, but its hard to tell without the data... It would be cool to compile some data to understand what works and what is a waste of energy.

I get awesome yields (BE)on my Oysters with no supplements, no gypsum, no ph adjusting, and a very low spawn rate of 10%...No need to make that more complex...I think its likely the same kind of thing with other mushies... Bodhi is getting what looks like good yields on straight coir..As for potency, I have no idea how to assess that.




LMAO youre funny... considering the kind of speculations you are throwing out, you might want to take some anecdotal evidence into consideration :rofl: no reason anyone should be "offended" :rofl:

almost everything people say here is gonna be anecdotal, unless you know of anyone on here who follows proper research methods (controls, meaningful datapoints, etc) and publishes their work in a peer reviewed ecosystem. some of us are working towards things like that, but proper research is more complicated than you are giving it credit for

to answer your questions:
1) that was MS, about 15 transfers into cleaning it up,
2) tub was standard 66qt
3) and no shit its over mature lmao (thanks for clearing that up :wink: ).... it was allowed to get so over mature because i realized that it was going to be the largest yeild i had ever had off a single tub(so many monsters that i didnt even notice that 295g one at first!), so i let it put on weight way after they would have normally been harvested, to try to get my personal best yield (i like to challenge myself)
4) good yield is totally relative to the cultures and techniques in question, what i consider good might be totally different than someone else, this is all relative. obviously, people dig > 1 B.E., but once that becomes cake you might start shooting for 2:1 . and the exact same technique might yield .25:1 with different genetics. so its TOTALLY relative
5) i never said you have to use straw and hpoo to get good results, i said its an easy way for most people to improve yeilds. yes, bodhi gets incredible yields with CVG (as does anyone else who does it right, consistently)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Potency is genetics. Spawn provides sufficient nutrients. People used to fruit just cased grain. Now we use substrate to supply moisture. Of course everyone wants to add nutrients but mycelium will digest it slower to not over heat, metabolic processes in a mono can be +5F easy.

Rather than using fancy substrate just throw in an extra jar of spawn.

Too much spawn has its own problems




:whathesaid: 100%

there are lots of potential factors that might influence potency, but genetics is a factor that we can be absolutely certain affects potency. usually technique is what bottlenecks people's yields, not substrate complexity


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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