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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,942
Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24142106 - 03/06/17 07:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I just got my meter as well today and have to use it to figure out wich of the 4 speeds I need to use. I think we need to measure the opening on the fan and figure out the SQ ft of the out opening of the fan to properly measure the CFM of that fan.


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OfflineCapnZ
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24142198 - 03/06/17 07:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I think you would be OK to wire them up and run them just long enough to get a cfm reading from them with your meter. Don't want to run them for prolonged periods with zero resistance but I really don't think 5 min or so would hurt....


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: CapnZ]
    #24142264 - 03/06/17 08:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think they make any multi-speed blowers like this, but years ago we had one that was used for moving air in the garage. It had weak power and didn't move shit for ait untill we taped off part out the outflow creating some static pressure. My dad told me that some older models required resistance to work properly. I hope neither of us run into this.


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OfflineLucretius
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24142361 - 03/06/17 09:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You all do great work.  I don't want to derail, but I also don't want to creat a noob thread for a simple related question.  I must be missing something obvious but I have something probably stupid in my head.

I'm watching this video: 


The particulate graph looks very impressive, and he's just using a box fan and a single 1" filter (mpr 1000, which isn't very good).  I've been dabbling with some plates and was thinking of trying something similar but with some juiced up filters.

MPR 2800 (higher = better from my reading)
https://www.amazon.com/Filtrete-Ultrafine-Particle-Reduction-1-Inches/dp/B00TUDHVDW

So, I know the air flow would be somewhat of an issue because it isn't a box of air, it would be a cylinder shape.  The question is, given all of your experience what do you estimate the feasibility of this being "good enough" is?  I'm fine sticking with the SAB I have, I just keep eyeballing these magnificient flow hood threads and then start thinking of cheaper ways.

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OfflineX2QE
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: Lucretius] * 1
    #24142376 - 03/06/17 09:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That won't give you laminar flow. So it won't work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow


In the mean time make a better/bigger SAB.

I followed this one and I really like it. Nifty magnet covers and so much more roomy than my old one.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771

Instead of a drill bit I heated up a can on the stove for the holes. Even a can with a metal bottom and cardboard walls will work. Not very many times though. :laugh:

Edited by X2QE (03/06/17 09:18 PM)

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: X2QE]
    #24142388 - 03/06/17 09:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yea that's not going to work for working in front of. Better to use a big SAB in a closet, that has a home HEPA filter system ran in it prior to using SAB, just turn filter system off like 10 min before. This will atleast reduce spore count in the air. A box fan and cheap ass filter won't scrub much from air.


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OfflineLucretius
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: X2QE]
    #24142491 - 03/06/17 10:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That magnet idea really is ingenius.

Ok so viable solution:
- Just use the filter for cleaning the air, but not as a makeshift flowhood.  Follow procedure for turning off fan as well as central heat and air for particulates to settle before beginning SAB work.

Just by looking at that dudes particulate meter it looks worth it to me as a supplement to SAB (and just breathing better air).  Thoughts on transforming turbulent air into laminar flow using honeycomb mesh screening and several inches of airspace enclosed between?

Edited by Lucretius (03/06/17 10:16 PM)

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: Lucretius] * 1
    #24142521 - 03/06/17 10:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Lol, just buy a filter off ebay for $150 and watch craigslist for a used blower for likr $20-30. Makes life sooooo much simpler. You are NOT going to get any thing close to a HEPA filter flowhood, using sketchy makeshift tools. You will have to spend the money!

Mesh alone will not get you laminar flow.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24142708 - 03/07/17 12:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Lucretius, you have a few things confused:

#1 a SAB is NOT STERILE, the only reason it works for clean work is the still air. the contams all fall to the bottom. leverage the still air principle that actually works. put a damp towel in the bottom and use a raised cookie rack to work on, this will trap contams and allow you to work above them

#2 particulate isnt what you should be worried about, we are talking about microorganisms and endospores that are a fraction of a micron. we can do clean work with laminar flow or with still air, but do at least one of those the right way. I like to build SABs in closets, and anything else i can to ensure still air

check out my old SABs from my old location, i built a sweet custom one, you can see the rack and towel in the bg




/hijack

lol... any input on the blower questions is much appreciated


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24142933 - 03/07/17 05:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
size of the blower housing? shouldnt matter as long as it is powerful enough, the housing is optional and usually just for mounting a prefilter or 3

I would snap a pic but its still wrapped up for protection till i put it in place. screen probably wasnt the right word, its just the metal mesh stuff that FP uses on their non-pleated filters. the pleated versions they sell and use in their series 1 hood does not have the metal

btw capn, is that steel workspace area installed in the pics you posted? maybe it is just reflecting white

does anyone know if that meter will be a good way to establish which blower i should use, and how much i need to restrict the intake, etc? I still dont have a motor controller, initially hoped id just get it dialed in on the right speed and leave it there, but if there is a strong chance i might need a controller (like swazeys router speed controller ) then i would like to order it asap so i can get this dang thing built this week... i have about 800 plates ready for transfers :/



Hey thanks a ton.

As long as your blower is overly powerful then it is pretty easy to adjust to get in the range for laminar flow. I'm pretty sure a 1/2 HP blower should run a 2' x 2' flow hood very well.

In order to adjust the blower rate to achieve laminar flow use a combination of both or either of these:
1. use extra prefilters or smaller intake but too much resistant might hurt the blower.
2. Use a speed controller as I did which really came in handy to get it right where I wanted it.

To know how much flow is correct use a bic lighter and hold it 2" from the face of the filter and it should curve the flame somewhere from 45 to 90 degrees.

Too much will cause turbulence so be careful.

What model and brand is your blower?
and what size and depth filter?


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Edited by tombosley8 (03/07/17 05:35 AM)

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: tombosley8]
    #24143036 - 03/07/17 06:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The 1/2 HP blower sold on Fungi Perfecti pushes 1600+ CFM @ 1.0 SP!

For a 24 x 24" filter face you wanted 400CFM @ 1.0 SP, that is way too strong, it could even damage the filter.

You would really, really have to power that one down, I wouldn't suggest using it. It would need to be run at 1/4 power

These are typically matched to 24 x 48 " filter face, which still need only 800CFM @ 1" SP for laminar flow ,so I imagine it would still need to be powered down by half even

Just my two cents, maybe someone else has a better understanding tho


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Registered: 10/12/16
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: mushpunx]
    #24143711 - 03/07/17 12:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

When I was looking online, most blowers that produced 400 cfm under 1.0 SP, had a free flow CFM of up aroubds 700-800. Some will not loose much flow but some will loose close to half. His 1/2 is a 4 speed, so hopefully his on the lowest will produce what he needs. May just have to throw like 4 prefilters on there to limit the fans ability to pull in as much. I am in the same boat, but mine looks to be 3/4 horse so I may not be able to use mine.

If possible it is always better to get MFG info on blower.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24144105 - 03/07/17 03:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oh he can change speed? I didn't realize that

If 4 speed means it goes by 1/4s then on the lowest setting then yea 1/4 poser should be just over 400CFM @ 1.0-1.2SP which is perfect for a 24 x 24

If that's how it works thats a good blower, if he ever wanted to upgrade could run a huge filter!

What about your filter you wanna use? Can you change speeds on your blower?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: mushpunx]
    #24144227 - 03/07/17 04:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Now I want a meter too goddamn. Someone lemme borrow theirs so I can ENSURE I didnt built a piece of crap lol


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: maddchef]
    #24144257 - 03/07/17 04:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)




I wouldn't mind checking mine myself

Does yours do this? Incense works well too


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OfflineCapnZ
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: mushpunx]
    #24144286 - 03/07/17 04:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah me too. All I have is the bic lighter test. I do get about a 90 degree flame so I'm thinking I'm good but a meter would be cool!


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: CapnZ]
    #24144330 - 03/07/17 04:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah mine bends to a 90° but I still wanna see numbers lol


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:

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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: maddchef]
    #24144437 - 03/07/17 05:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

As far as a blower being too powerful, you can always adjust down with a speedster and/or extra prefilters.

but yeah definitely put that on the lowest setting by wiring it accordingly.

btw our prefilters usually add around .2" of resistance so the blower should push the needed cfm for the filter at 1.2".

Now that I'm thinking about it my blower is a 3/4 hp and it delivers 1217 cfm at 1.25" SP on it's highest setting so that's perfect for my 3' x 4' filter. At .9" on the highest setting it delivers 2016 cfm.

Seems that cfm declines rapidly when they get around 1" SP so that extra .2" from the prefilter will reduce speed a lot.

So on the lowest setting a 1/2 hp of the same brand/style at 1.25" SP delivers 622 cfm which is pretty close to the 400 or so cfm that he needs for his 2' x 2' filter.

All you need is that speedster or just another prefilter.


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Edited by tombosley8 (03/07/17 05:33 PM)

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: tombosley8]
    #24145059 - 03/07/17 10:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Om a side note, I did discover that we COULD use a 4 position HVAC rotary switch IF we wished to have the option to change speeds. This could be nice, but not really needed unless CFM drop due to dirty pre filter, or ideal CFM falls in between 2 speeds.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Flow Hood Design Questions [Re: mushpunx]
    #24146666 - 03/08/17 03:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

much obliged my friends, i greatly appreciate the feedback :highfive1:

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
In order to adjust the blower rate to achieve laminar flow use a combination of both or either of these:
1. use extra prefilters or smaller intake but too much resistant might hurt the blower.
2. Use a speed controller as I did which really came in handy to get it right where I wanted it.

To know how much flow is correct use a bic lighter and hold it 2" from the face of the filter and it should curve the flame somewhere from 45 to 90 degrees.

Too much will cause turbulence so be careful.

What model and brand is your blower?
and what size and depth filter?




right right, that is the plan... lol if i knew the blower models i would be golden... been desperately trying to figure out the manufacturer info to no avail. i picked up both second hand, and neither has ANY info on the blower models or brand. I posted pics of every marking in OP.

i think the 1/4 hp came out of a rheem model ROUZ furnace, based on some serious google-fu leading me to this page http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/rouz/1299/0912150.html ; which seems to be for the same line of furnaces, and the blower pictured in the diagrams looks just like it. unfortunately, that is ALL i can find on either blower :/

i think i am gonna try to test the free air cfm using that meter today, though im not sure how viable it is to measure it this way

Quote:

mushpunx said:
The 1/2 HP blower sold on Fungi Perfecti pushes 1600+ CFM @ 1.0 SP!

For a 24 x 24" filter face you wanted 400CFM @ 1.0 SP, that is way too strong, it could even damage the filter.

You would really, really have to power that one down, I wouldn't suggest using it. It would need to be run at 1/4 power

These are typically matched to 24 x 48 " filter face, which still need only 800CFM @ 1" SP for laminar flow ,so I imagine it would still need to be powered down by half even

Just my two cents, maybe someone else has a better understanding tho




we are on the same page brother!! my thoughts exactly, for the same reasons.... this is where most of my concerns lie.

both the 1/2 hp and 1/4 hp are 3 speed motors. I also just ordered the harbor freight router speed controller people like


I plan to use the best prefilters ive found, the 2800 healthy living ones, which have .22 resistance (if i recall the spec sheet correctly). I plan to use 2 of them, and optionally use the speed controller as well.


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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