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Offlinezeronio
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Black agar * 1
    #2413318 - 03/10/04 02:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I was reading Eric Danells Cantharellus thesis and came across an interesting thing about activated charcoal:

Quote:


1. Murashige & Skoog medium (MS) (Table 5) was supplied with antibiotics (50 ppm streptomycin and ampicillin, 5 ppm benomyl) and then sterile filtered (0.2 um Sartorius cellulose acetate filter). MS was then mixed with an autoclaved agar solution (final agar concentration 1.2%) with 0.05% activated charcoal (to adsorb toxic compounds in autoclaved agar), before addition to 9-cm petri dishes.





I decided to test it with some species - I especially focused on Hypholoma capnoides which is growing too slow on the regular PDYA I use normally. This time I added less then 1g/l (I can't measure it very accuratley) of activated charcoal to standard PDYA and here are the results after 1 week:



The growth of Hypholoma capnoides was faster - besides that black agar looks very cool! :cool:


Laetiporus sulphureus. Mycelium is not very visible on normal PDYA, but it grew faster and nicer on black agar.


Tampanensis doesn't seem to like it so much. (eh, well... nothing is perfect)


Detail of Hypsizygus ulmarius (there was no significant difference).


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Anonymous

Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2413412 - 03/10/04 02:46 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yes the black agar does look very cool! Makes the mycellium easier too see for those with failing eyes as well.


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2413438 - 03/10/04 03:01 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Pretty cool.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2413640 - 03/10/04 05:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Woow, good news for the Hypholoma capnoides growers. Every time I put some H.capnoides on agar the growth stalls after some time ( though it seems to prefer a lower PH ). I am curious if it's going to grow out the plate or stall before. *Please* keep us updated about that. Where did you get the activated charcoal from ?

I have put a agar wedge of H. capnoides on some sterilized sawdust substrate and it grows there very slowly - but it grows. The strange thing is that it does not grow through the substrate but it forms kind of a white mycelium ball on the surface of the substrate. Has someone ever seen such a thing before ?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Black agar [Re: ragadinks]
    #2413699 - 03/10/04 06:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I had H. capnoides before I got yours and it was like you said - it stalled after some time, never grew over entire dish and after few transfers I lost it.
I got activated charcoal in a drug store. It's a simple medicine for food intoxication.

I have to find out if AC alters pH and then repeat the test with dishes that have same pH.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2413763 - 03/10/04 07:33 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

In this link from Anno they use a agar recipe for H. capnoides with a PH of 5.6.

Quote:


Malt extract 30.0 g
Soya peptone 3.0 g
Agar 15.0 g
Distilled water 1000.0 ml

Adjust pH to 5.6. Sterilize at 121?C for 10 min.




In this recipe it seems to me that they do not use a lot of agar regarding that such a low PH will make the agar very liquid. But I have not tried the recipe out yet because I have no source for the inredients like the peptone and the malt.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2413834 - 03/10/04 08:23 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)



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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Black agar [Re: Anno]
    #2418491 - 03/11/04 10:30 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Activated charcoal can be purchased in massive quantities in aquarium stores. It used to make your own filters. I don't know if it would be cheaper to buy it for food use or not.


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OfflinePooPs
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Re: Black agar [Re: debianlinux]
    #2418761 - 03/11/04 12:11 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

a 10 $ box of activated charcoal would last you a lifetime for agar use !!!

10 $ box = 2 L here in canada.


--------------------


-----------
Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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InvisibleBi0TeK
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2419701 - 03/11/04 04:55 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Very interesting indeed!


--------------------
PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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Invisiblesci33
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Re: Black agar [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #2420814 - 03/11/04 10:38 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Was the food grade activated carbon in the form of powder, or particles? In aquarium shops they sell particles of activated carbon, I'm guessing I could just get that and run it in a grinder to powder it for better solubility. I think I'd like to mess with black agar as well.


--------------------
Looking for:
Ps. weilii, Ps. samuiensis, Ps. hispanica, Pan. cyanescens (any strain I don't have)

Have:
Ps. cubensis, Ps. tampanensis, Pan. cyanescens (Australian, Tai-KS, Hawaiian, Jamaican, Ban Lipa Noi)

PM for a trade.


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Offlinedaywalker
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Re: Black agar [Re: sci33]
    #2420985 - 03/11/04 11:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Got my attention with this thread.

Gardening sections of Home Depot's should have the activated charcoal as well as nurseries. Course stuff though.

Grinding is probably mandatory??


--------------------
"I suggest we ... learn to love our ... selves before it ... becomes illegal."


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Black agar [Re: daywalker]
    #2421805 - 03/12/04 02:32 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Medical activated charcoal came in form of fine powder. It's more expensive then in pet shops but you don't need lots of it. I used <1g/l, Eric Danell even less and Una (from links Anno provided) used 5g/l.

Another interesting thing about Danell experiment is that he added AC after autoclaving as well as non-autoclavable antibiotics. But he had tools for sterile filtration at his disposal.
Anybody knows how sterile filtration is done?


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OfflineAkrobatik
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2442947 - 03/17/04 12:59 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

theres a section in The Mushroom Cultivator about using charcoal in agar to promote spore germination. It states that charcoal should be used whenever spore germination is slow.


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Anonymous

Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2444054 - 03/17/04 06:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Anybody knows how sterile filtration is done?



Through a autoclaveble polypro vacume filter. I dont know if they sell the filters in a large enough size to acomodate agar though.
Why do you need sterile filtration for zeronio?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Black agar [Re: ]
    #2445791 - 03/18/04 02:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Why do you need sterile filtration for zeronio?




I don't know if I really need it, but it might be interesting for adding non-autoclavable stuff to agar. Since AC is used to neutralize toxic compounds from autoclaving it might be better to add it after sterilization.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2445830 - 03/18/04 02:23 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

with sterile filtration start with osmosis and work your way backwards to carbon filters...


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Anonymous

Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2447111 - 03/18/04 02:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I see. Did you ever think about using oyster metabolight as a antibacterial additive to agar?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Black agar [Re: ]
    #2463032 - 03/23/04 07:47 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I experimented with adding a Trametes versicolor and Shizophyllum commune extract to agar, but didn't notice any improvement. But I think that if they really have such great antibacterial properties it should work.


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Anonymous

Re: Black agar [Re: zeronio]
    #2463161 - 03/23/04 09:50 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

thats cool. I was also thinking of the herb yarrow. Its natures best and closest atibiotic. It grows all over the place around her so as soon as it turns green I am going to check it out.


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