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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil]
    #24137191 - 03/04/17 08:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
We can speculate anything, though.  That's what the word means.



Well, sure, but the more circumstantial evidence, the more reasonable the speculation.



If there's circumstantial evidence, speculation isn't necessary.



:whathesaid:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24137262 - 03/04/17 08:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

idk, you dont normally convict someone on circumstance alone, you typically need HARD, or physical, evidence.

You couldnt impeach trump, but you could speculate that he did things that warrant impeachment. And that wouldnt be an unreasonable speculation.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24137363 - 03/04/17 09:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Physical evidence is circumstantial


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil]
    #24138035 - 03/05/17 08:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

True :shrug:


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24138413 - 03/05/17 11:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Milatry spending leads to large amounts of R&D. The armies of the world has invented and developped many technologies that cosumers are now using everyday due to private sector modificationsor adaptation to their product.

What needs to be pointed out is that the military is a lot more than guns, bombs and missiles. I the pride to say that you have built these things. Do any of you realize how extremely difficult it is to build a jet? What about an aircraft carrier. How fucking insane are these ships. Hundreds of thousands of hour of manpower in not million just to come up with a viable blueprint. The amount of unique pieces that were drawn up and built to fit the specs. The people who are doing this are developping a valuable life experience. When they go back to the private sector, they are the best of the best and they can use their skills to build cheap laptops to give to poor people, they can develop water filtration systems etc.

The military is a leading factor in the success and wealth of a nation. Up here out military focuses on humanitarian issues. We have developed portable technologies that can filter thousands of gallons of water from a germ infest pond and make it potable. New medicines, new in field medical items etc.

The military is crucial. Don't underestimate it


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24138429 - 03/05/17 11:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
The days of aircraft carrier viability for war are coming to an end.  In the next 20-50 years, most war will occur with small arms and hand to hand combat.  Technology will become less and less of a factor.





Naval superiority is paramount in terms of keeping other assholes on their own side of the ocean.  It allows the U.S. to dictate the terms of international trade to some degree, and provides the means by which an enemy state can be blockaded. 

I don't see these things changing fundamentally in the next 50 years, though i would concede that most actual combat (in terms of numbers of engagements) does and will involve small arms.  I would like to hear your reasoning with regard to melee combat.  Not too many bayonet charges in the last 100 years, and i can't think of a reason that things would swing back in that direction.




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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Patlal]
    #24138621 - 03/05/17 12:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

For the benefit of the nation or to secure it's destruction.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy] * 3
    #24138802 - 03/05/17 01:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

35b more for the military.

12b for a pointless wall.


But hey, we gotta cut 25%, or 2b, of the EPAs budget in order to balance the budget!


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24139092 - 03/05/17 03:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Si vis pacem, para bellum
"If you want peace, prepare for war".

One can ascribe a cost or a more acceptable figure; still wont change the human condition or those that lead nations.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24139190 - 03/05/17 04:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

A witty saying proves nothing.

Voltaire


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24139580 - 03/05/17 06:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Except Voltaire's saying...wait a sec!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #24139974 - 03/05/17 09:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The armies of the world has invented and developped many technologies that cosumers are now using everyday due to private sector modificationsor adaptation to their product.



Sure, but that's got to be the worse return on investment possible.  Much of the money spent on applications that have civilian use is money wasted on supporting the military side of the application.  The government would be better off just asking scientists to invent whatever civilian product they're looking for.

Quote:

Patlal said:
The military is a leading factor in the success and wealth of a nation.



That' couldn't be further from the truth.  Sure, military spending creates jobs, but so does breaking windows that someone needs to fix.

The way to really make spending count is to do something that not only creates jobs, but also provides additional return to the people, such as building bridges, roads, dams, etc.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24139989 - 03/05/17 09:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Still, every dollar spent is a dollar of income for someone.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #24141266 - 03/06/17 01:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The days of aircraft carrier viability for war are coming to an end.  In the next 20-50 years, most war will occur with small arms and hand to hand combat.  Technology will become less and less of a factor.




please explain how you came to this conclusion.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil]
    #24141395 - 03/06/17 02:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Still, every dollar spent is a dollar of income for someone.



Same is true when you pay someone to fix broken windows.  The key is to create new jobs AND make people's lives better at the same time (bridges, roads, schools, etc).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil]
    #24141595 - 03/06/17 03:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Still, every dollar spent is a dollar of income for someone.




And a dollar of income lost for someone else.

A pithy response does not help others that are unfamiliar with the Broken Window Fallacy

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Kryptos]
    #24141878 - 03/06/17 06:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's actually not true when the money spent is funded by debt that will never be repaid.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil]
    #24142342 - 03/06/17 09:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Still, every dollar spent is a dollar of income for someone.



And a dollar of income lost for someone else.

A pithy response does not help others that are unfamiliar with the Broken Window Fallacy



That's actually not true when the money spent is funded by debt that will never be repaid.



But it's true if the vast majority of money spent comes from tax revenue.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24142349 - 03/06/17 09:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's just a matter of accounting.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Enlil]
    #24142383 - 03/06/17 09:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If $7 trillion is spent, and $6.5 trillion is collected, then for every $1.00 spent, $0.93 is lost.  Not sure how accounting changes that.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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