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OfflineMorel Guy
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35 Billion increase in military spending * 1
    #24126481 - 02/28/17 04:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So what do you think or feel about a huge increase in military spending?

They want to take it from other agencies.  1/5th from the State Department.

I personally feel that it would be difficult to take on the whole world.  Military problems aren't going to go away.  Shame to start more problems than what may of already become.

Giving the world the finger because you have the weapons to kick ass isn't a very solid policy.  That's my opinion and experience.

Not that I am against defense and some offense totally.  It's good to be prepared.  Lot's of Governors want defense contracts in their state.  So it's seen that both parties will support an increase in spending.

I just don't want to eat it too soon.  It's also hard to go thru the constant loss of personnel.  I find it emotionally heavy to hear of lot's of people dying.

Is this a projection of American power or a projection of Trumps ego?  I've seen my ego get me into trouble.  Anyone that knows me online knows I get into stupid trouble.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Offlineqman
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #24126513 - 02/28/17 04:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's a huge waste of money and we can't afford it.

The US has to support too many US citizens living in poverty, illegals and now refugees.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: qman]
    #24126515 - 02/28/17 04:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm more concerned that the direction could create far more need for military spending.  Starting wars or trying to end conflicts could dig an impossibly deep whole.

Maybe Trump will get Putin to solve the worlds problems?  Partnership? 

I think not.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: qman]
    #24126535 - 02/28/17 05:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's a huge waste of money and we can't afford it.

The US has to support too many US citizens living in poverty, illegals and now refugees.




Would you support this move if illegals nor refugees existed?


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24126546 - 02/28/17 05:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think refugees or most illegals cost all that much to leave alone.  It's enforcing the law that costs a fortune.

I know someone that overstayed their visa.  Works a good job and causes no problems.  A very funny and good person.


--------------------
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In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy] * 2
    #24126560 - 02/28/17 05:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The Roman empire did the same thing in its final stages.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24126566 - 02/28/17 05:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The USA isn't going anywhere without mushroom clouds.

Even then there would be some sort of mutant survivors.  We would be America, land of the mutant ganja farmers.  Tomatoes for brains and radioactive hearts.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

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Offlineqman
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24126602 - 02/28/17 05:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
It's a huge waste of money and we can't afford it.

The US has to support too many US citizens living in poverty, illegals and now refugees.




Would you support this move if illegals nor refugees existed?




No I wouldn't, we can't afford it and military investments at this point won't provide any long term positive return for the average US citizen.

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Offlineqman
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24126612 - 02/28/17 05:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I don't think refugees or most illegals cost all that much to leave alone.  It's enforcing the law that costs a fortune.

I know someone that overstayed their visa.  Works a good job and causes no problems.  A very funny and good person.




I'm sure that's true, a refugee child from Nigeria is coming into the public school my sister works at next week, this ONE child who has no medical shots and language skills and is going to cost the taxpayers a bundle for decades.

Not only that, these children cause lots of social problems as well, who pays for it and gets less resources as a result?  The innocent children in that existing school system.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: qman]
    #24126656 - 02/28/17 05:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know how to solve the worlds problems.

Maybe the kid will get shots.  Maybe the kid will be a good student.  Maybe people will be supportive.

The illegal I know makes more money than I do.  Been in less legal trouble as in none.


--------------------
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In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: qman] * 1
    #24128629 - 03/01/17 01:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's a huge waste of money and we can't afford it.

The US has to support too many US citizens living in poverty, illegals and now refugees.



I agree with you.  But why mention illegals and refugees, whose combined cost to the taxpayer is less than 1% of the cost of welfare alone (not to mention all the other programs that are also  FAR more expensive).

Your desire to push your bigotry is far more important to you than your desire to have an intellectual dialogue, and it's hard to take you seriously anymore.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineqman
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24128666 - 03/01/17 01:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
It's a huge waste of money and we can't afford it.

The US has to support too many US citizens living in poverty, illegals and now refugees.



I agree with you.  But why mention illegals and refugees, whose combined cost to the taxpayer is less than 1% of the cost of welfare alone (not to mention all the other programs that are also  FAR more expensive).

Your desire to push your bigotry is far more important to you than your desire to have an intellectual dialogue, and it's hard to take you seriously anymore.




It has nothing to do with "bigotry", I don't care where these people come from, if they come from Eastern Europe, ship them back.

In fact, my position is the opposite of being a "bigot", who suffers the worst when the government is forced to allocate resources to illegals and refugees?  Black and Hispanic US citizens, but liberals don't give a shit about these down and out fellow citizens, as long as you feel better about yourselves attempting to save the world.

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24128731 - 03/01/17 02:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like a pretty good plan.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: qman]
    #24129011 - 03/01/17 03:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Who suffers the worst when the government is forced to allocate resources to illegals and refugees?  Black and Hispanic US citizens, but liberals don't give a shit about these down and out fellow citizens, as long as you feel better about yourselves attempting to save the world.



You know damn well that it's liberals who want to shift the tax burden from the poor back to the rich where it used to be before the 80s; back when middle class America was strong.

Don't pretend you care about the poor when supporting the party of tax cuts for the rich.  Don't pretend liberals don't care about the poor because we are willing to spend 1/10th of 1 percent of the budget on immigrants and refugees, which has a negligible effect on tax rates.

While you might be able to deceive yourself about not being a bigot, you're not deceiving others.  Otherwise, why make an issue of something that is such a tiny fraction of the budget, while not focusing on things that actually have an impact?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineqman
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24129206 - 03/01/17 04:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Who suffers the worst when the government is forced to allocate resources to illegals and refugees?  Black and Hispanic US citizens, but liberals don't give a shit about these down and out fellow citizens, as long as you feel better about yourselves attempting to save the world.



You know damn well that it's liberals who want to shift the tax burden from the poor back to the rich where it used to be before the 80s; back when middle class America was strong.

Don't pretend you care about the poor when supporting the party of tax cuts for the rich.  Don't pretend liberals don't care about the poor because we are willing to spend 1/10th of 1 percent of the budget on immigrants and refugees, which has a negligible effect on tax rates.

While you might be able to deceive yourself about not being a bigot, you're not deceiving others.  Otherwise, why make an issue of something that is such a tiny fraction of the budget, while not focusing on things that actually have an impact?




"supporting the party of tax cuts for the rich"

I do?  While I voted for Obama in 08, I had no idea he was going to create the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, my apologies.

"you're not deceiving others"

By pointing out the obvious?  States are already cutting social services across the board today because their budgets and debt are out of control, supporting illegals and their children by governments does matter.

"focusing on things that actually have an impact?"

Such as military spending, health care, education and social services, ect.  When things are as dire as they are today, everything has "an impact". :shrug:

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24129227 - 03/01/17 04:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
So what do you think or feel about a huge increase in military spending?

They want to take it from other agencies.  1/5th from the State Department.

I personally feel that it would be difficult to take on the whole world.  Military problems aren't going to go away.  Shame to start more problems than what may of already become.

Giving the world the finger because you have the weapons to kick ass isn't a very solid policy.  That's my opinion and experience.

Not that I am against defense and some offense totally.  It's good to be prepared.  Lot's of Governors want defense contracts in their state.  So it's seen that both parties will support an increase in spending.

I just don't want to eat it too soon.  It's also hard to go thru the constant loss of personnel.  I find it emotionally heavy to hear of lot's of people dying.

Is this a projection of American power or a projection of Trumps ego?  I've seen my ego get me into trouble.  Anyone that knows me online knows I get into stupid trouble.




Back on OP: I'm gonna have to agree with qman for once, though not the full sentiment. We got better shit to spend money on. Last few wars, our enemies never even scrambled their air forces, because it consisted of a total of 4 out-of-date MiGs (In the case of Iraq).

Spending money on defense only makes sense when there is a credible threat to the security of the nation. I mean actual, concrete, traditional, cold war like military threat. There are no such threats, and there have been no such threats since the USSR really started falling apart in the 80s.

Terrorists might be a threat, but they are not a threat that is deterred by military spending. They don't care about dying, and they target civilians. The only way to end the terrorist threat to the population is to draft every man, woman and child to make them technically combatants. A few extra billion spent on a joint strike interceptor that can't intercept a crop duster isn't gonna change anything. You could have a supermodern ICBM that can drop a nuke anywhere in the world with pinpoint accuracy in an hour, twelve different nuclear submarines carrying them independently, and have a fleet of battleships armed with the newest and best DARPA railguns capable of killing buildings in one shot, and it's not gonna do anything to a dude with a backpack bomb and a hoodie, because he doesn't wear a uniform or have a base of operations that can be targeted. Good way to burn cash though.

The other side of the argument is the amount of jobs that rely on the US making more tanks and planes. The army uses rand new tanks for target practice, because they are obsolete when it comes to urban tactics, but if the army stops buying them, then 50k people somewhere in Bumfuck, Ohio need a new job.

Honestly, I don't really care about those people that much. Shoulda picked a better skill set. I support welfare, feel free to hop on SNAP and I'll send some taxes your way.

Overall, I think the temptation to go use all the shiny new guns is gonna cause trouble for us down the line.

Especially considering how that $35B could cover the costs of keeping all those illegals on welfare for ~10 years, based on numbers you brought up a few topics back, qman.

Edited by Kryptos (03/01/17 04:44 PM)

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #24129268 - 03/01/17 04:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Got about as far as reading there are no threats.

Russia is a threat/foe.  They fly nukes around not seen since the cold war.  This has been going on for years.  They are moving missles closer to Europe and some are in Europe.  As well as other troop movments that make their neighbors uneasy or in one case even invaded.

China is increasing their navy.  Working on a third aircraft carrier.

Radical muslims want to rule the world.

A number of other situations exist and could exist any time.

Resources are getting tighter.  Population is exploding.  Weather patterns are changing.

Lot's of security issues.  Not going to be solved short term or likely even long term.  But for the ages come.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: qman]
    #24129277 - 03/01/17 04:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Don't pretend you care about the poor when supporting the party of tax cuts for the rich.



I do?  While I voted for Obama in 08, I had no idea he was going to create the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, my apologies.



EVERY president since the 80s created the largest wealth and income inequality since the early 40's.  Not one has significantly reversed Reagan's tax cuts for the rich.  Trump will only put that into hyperdrive, so get ready for another increase in income inequality like we've never seen in US history.

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
While you might be able to deceive yourself about not being a bigot, you're not deceiving others.  Otherwise, why make an issue of something that is such a tiny fraction of the budget, while not focusing on things that actually have an impact?



By pointing out the obvious?  States are already cutting social services across the board today because their budgets and debt are out of control, supporting illegals and their children by governments does matter.



It matters less than $1 for every $1000 of taxes paid.  Again, why focus on that $1 when there's $999 other dollars to look at?

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
why make an issue of something that is such a tiny fraction of the budget, while not focusing on things that actually have an impact?



Such as military spending, health care, education and social services, ect.  When things are as dire as they are today, everything has "an impact". :shrug:



Do you think cutting health care, education, and social security would make things less "dire" for the poor?  Yes, like military spending.  That would have a MUCH greater impact.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #24129294 - 03/01/17 04:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Russia is a threat/foe.  They fly nukes around not seen since the cold war.  This has been going on for years.  They are moving missles closer to Europe and some are in Europe.  As well as other troop movments that make their neighbors uneasy or in one case even invaded.





--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: 35 Billion increase in military spending [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24130812 - 03/02/17 10:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes anybody that knows anything knows the states want ultimate authority and power.  It depends who's in power state side to if that's good or bad for others.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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