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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: peyotillo]
#24165877 - 03/16/17 01:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hey i herd rumors about dmt in the substrate raising active compound content by as much as 300% (1% to 3%)
Rumors are an amazing thing. Rarely grounded in any actual real science. Can you cite the source of this "rumor"?
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KThunderland
Dude


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 451
Loc: CT
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Over the last few yearsthis has seemed to come up about a few dozen times, maybe monthly, its just doesnt work dmt wont raise the potency at all (unless u sprinkle it on the shrooms after and ingest with aan maoi lol)
-------------------- Check bio for trade list. Always open to trade anything of mine (that i can )for BTC.
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BlueDisa
Friend


Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 170
Last seen: 14 days, 12 hours
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: KThunderland]
#24166131 - 03/16/17 05:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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.Quote:
KThunderland said: Over the last few yearsthis has seemed to come up about a few dozen times, maybe monthly, its just doesnt work dmt wont raise the potency at all (unless u sprinkle it on the shrooms after and ingest with aan maoi lol)
or just consume shrooms with MAOI, that combo blasts one a good distance into space
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howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: BlueDisa]
#24166169 - 03/16/17 06:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you smoke the shrooms theyre almost like dmt i swear (LOL)
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KThunderland
Dude


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 451
Loc: CT
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Ha lmao
-------------------- Check bio for trade list. Always open to trade anything of mine (that i can )for BTC.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: KThunderland] 1
#24169475 - 03/17/17 10:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have seen a report or two claiming this worked, the original and possibly one other. I have seen no one else try it so how can anyone here claim it's been tried to death and fails every time? Why dont you find a reference for these failurs if the info is so abundant?
What has been tried is tryptophan and even that not working doesn't mean it can't work or that the study saying it does is bunk. It just means it couldn't be reproduced with random genetics, it could well be reproduced with the same culture used for the original study.
What's been tried more but still not enough for me to conclusively say it doesn't work is tryptamine. The metobolic pathway, iirc, is tryptophan -> tryptamine -> n,n,dmt -> 4-ho-dmt -> 4-po-dmt. Some of those steps are metabolically limited, some may well not be. Starting further down the chain sure increases your chances of bioconversion. In addition to the original source shulgin also seemed to believe this is viable so until I see a well controlled test showing failure I'm not going to assume it would.
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BasilBush
Reality Bender



Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 928
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: krypto2000]
#24169723 - 03/17/17 11:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I saved up all the yellow myc piss from 3-4 grows in the freezer. It formed glass shard like crystals. I tell you know tho shit is as strong or on the same level as dmt, blew my mind. I now stress out all my cakes and smoke the myc piss, why don't you all try it.
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KThunderland
Dude


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 451
Loc: CT
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: BasilBush]
#24169895 - 03/17/17 12:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok tons of ppl have tried it myslef included sorry to say any increase was not noticeable, not even a minor increase that id expect from placebo effect, ppl have even used dmt grasses in place of straw, etc, but tge science isnt there it, with tge way mushroom digestion works and tge way the alkoids are produced the science just inst there. The best way to increase potency is to provide the optimum conditions and select for best potency. Or grow pe.
-------------------- Check bio for trade list. Always open to trade anything of mine (that i can )for BTC.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: KThunderland]
#24169906 - 03/17/17 12:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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And understanding of biochemistry of fungi kind of negates it too
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: KThunderland]
#24170005 - 03/17/17 01:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KThunderland said: Ok tons of ppl have tried it myslef included sorry to say any increase was not noticeable, not even a minor increase that id expect from placebo effect, ppl have even used dmt grasses in place of straw, etc, but tge science isnt there it, with tge way mushroom digestion works and tge way the alkoids are produced the science just inst there. The best way to increase potency is to provide the optimum conditions and select for best potency. Or grow pe.
Can you describe exactly what you did? Someone saying, "I tried it and it didn't work" isn't reason enough to assume it doesn't work, if you share you exact procedure and it seems sound then we can cite that as one instance that it probably failed, but without verifying you even did it correctly it doesn't mean much of anything.
Using wild dmt containing grasses, which tend to have a very very low dmt content, means nothing. Using a kilo of dried grass could introduce as little as a hundred milligrams of dmt to the substrate, if your whole first flush produced 5 grams of psilocybin then an extra 500mg is going to be negligible even if it had a 100% uptake and conversion rate.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: krypto2000]
#24170073 - 03/17/17 02:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's amazing how far gartz pf and staments have set back the hobby but you can't talk bad about them because they did have great contributions.
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amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: BasilBush]
#24170286 - 03/17/17 03:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
BasilBush said: I saved up all the yellow myc piss from 3-4 grows in the freezer. It formed glass shard like crystals. I tell you know tho shit is as strong or on the same level as dmt, blew my mind. I now stress out all my cakes and smoke the myc piss, why don't you all try it.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
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BasilBush
Reality Bender



Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 928
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: amidogen]
#24170336 - 03/17/17 04:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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He he ha ha ha

Myc piss I the way to go, dont knock it till youve tried it
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amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: BasilBush]
#24170343 - 03/17/17 04:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (06/21/18 10:26 AM)
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KThunderland
Dude


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 451
Loc: CT
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: amidogen]
#24170346 - 03/17/17 04:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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There isnt two reports, hell right now there is 6 on my screen below. Not to be rude but the reason ppl arent having this dicussion again because e we are tired of it. Its doesnt work, dmt is not utilized by tge mycellium to produce alkaloids. Thats all.
-------------------- Check bio for trade list. Always open to trade anything of mine (that i can )for BTC.
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amidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: KThunderland]
#24170352 - 03/17/17 04:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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.
-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
Edited by amidogen (06/21/18 10:26 AM)
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: KThunderland]
#24170527 - 03/17/17 05:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KThunderland said: There isnt two reports, hell right now there is 6 on my screen below. Not to be rude but the reason ppl arent having this dicussion again because e we are tired of it. Its doesnt work, dmt is not utilized by tge mycellium to produce alkaloids. Thats all.
I see 5 and not one has any experiments, data, or even novel discussion on the topic beyond where this thread has gone. That's what you consider to be valid scientific reports? I'd still like to hear a summary of your experiment.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
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Re: Dmt to raise psilocybin content? [Re: krypto2000]
#24170587 - 03/17/17 05:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The idea with the metabolites is interesting. I might give that a shot at some point, just for kicks.
I'd also like to point out that no one needs to explain why a concept doesn't work. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. The burden of proof falls on the person that insists that it does work, or that it should work.
There's still a lot of things we don't understand about mushrooms. And until someone that has the skills and access to items such as Chromatography equipment, we can largely only go by subjective review.
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KThunderland
Dude


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 451
Loc: CT
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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NNDMT, the DMT found in most ayahuasca plants, particularly mimosa hostilis, is in fact an inhibitor of the enyzyme tryptophan decarboxylase which creates the tryptamines necessary in the production of psilocin + psilocybin. And Dude no one is attacking you, we all thought about this at some point lol
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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If that idea came about from a tickle in someone's asshole and nothing else then you'd totally be right, the burden of proof is on them. That's not what happened though, we're debating whether an already existing piece of evidence conducted by a professional biochemist is valid or not. They ran an experiment and got a result, their experiment may be flawed, the result may be wrong, but somehow they got said result so if someone wants to prove that result wrong then the burden of proof rests on them, not the other way around. The person trying to prove it has already done so.
I'm not trying to prove it one way or the other, I have no opinion on it. I'm just trying to get people to accept that we don't know, that they can't know, and to not make the unsupported claim that it doesn't work when their only reason for believing so is because they haven't seen anyone reproduce it while they're unable to cite anyone even trying to reproduce it.
If you re-run their experiment and cannot reproduce the results then we have reason to doubt it, but still nothing could be concluded from a single attempt and in cases like that it's much more likely the experiment showing a result is correct and the attempt at reproduction is flawed because it's far more likely to miss something that is there than it is to find something that isn't. Just think about that. A lot of variables need to be just right for an experiment to be successful, but only one variable must be wrong in order for it to fail and a bunch of wookies on a drug forum are not the most scientifically rigorous group of people.
If one ran multiple independent tests and still are unable to reproduce it, one comes to understand biologically why it will or will not work, or determines a confounding flaw in the original experiment then we can reasonably conclude it doesn't work. Until then we can't and at best (or worst) we just have to say it may or may not, but it's simply an unknown. A bunch of threads with people circle jerking over their interpretation of the same study without even any new insights, much less actual tests, is not what I consider relevant data to add to the debate, I sure don't consider them scientifically valid reports.
The closest thing I've seen to someone trying to reproduce it is people dumping l-tryptophan into a multi-spore monotub, eating the fruits, and then based on their subjective experience claiming they're no different then their MS tub they grew a couple of months ago. They may not be different, but eating some random fruits is not a valid way to test for that, and that's also not even what the original experiment did as I remember it and so it wouldn't even be a valid reproduction.
For the record I have no opinion on whether it works or not, I do not and can not know, just like anyone else here despite what some may believe. If someone here has some information that would change that then please share it, but until then no one can claim one way or the other. Thunderland claims to have tried to reproduce it and failed, if he/she would share their methodology then I might agree that he has a valid reason to believe it was a flawed study, but if he can't even do that why would I assume he accurately reproduced it much less believe his results at face value? If he won't share then he still may have a valid reason to believe it's flawed, but why then should that change any of our opinions?
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