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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: MOTH]
    #2414663 - 03/10/04 01:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you may not believe in it but it still exists.

What do we do about it?

Killing people for killing people has not stopped anyone from killing people.
Obviously it doesn't work. Like the war on drugs.
It's like trying to swim upstream on a heavy current when you've only got one arm.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2414720 - 03/10/04 01:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

My bible says kill, not murder.

Murder is a Christian excuse and interpretation of Kill.

The bible says kill.

mj


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Offlinejustsmurfy
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2481144 - 03/29/04 08:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I believe the death penalty is a deterrent for rational people, however there are a bunch of nutjobs out there who are not deterred by any penalty and are highly unlikly to ever be rehabilitated, which is not what our prison system does in the first place. So after those factors, it comes down to this for me: is it crueler to keep someone in jail with no hope of ever getting out, getting porked up the ass, and living in fear from both the guards and the other inmates, or to just kill the fucking nutjobs outright? I think we should put the poor fuckers out of everyone's misery, including theirs.

A note on my use of the word 'deterrent': I use it as my dictionary suggests, as in 'the death penalty derters rational people from commiting murder', not as in 'the death penalty prevents rational people from commiting murder'. Deter = discourage, deter &#8800; prevent. Those claiming that the death penalty is not a valid deterrent seem to be laboring under the impression that 'deter' is a synonym for 'prevent'. It isn't. Sorry, MJ!

I truly wish that our prison system wasn't used as simply punishment and to 'keep criminals off the streets' -that last part is just plain stupid. I wish it was really used to help prevent future crime, instead of letting the prisoners use it as 'crime grad school' and a networking opportunity. Once you've gone to jail for a felony in this country, you've pretty much had it and might as well lead a life of crime. That's a worse penalty than spending time in jail and getting tubesteaked. Unfortunately, the right wing seems to see this all as fitting punishment.

There are some people who I don't believe can be rehabilitated, even if we made an effort. If we really did want to rehabilitate even the other prisoners, why would we want to put these unrecoverable nutjobs in the same prison? Talk about bad apples...

-JustSmurfy


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2481552 - 03/29/04 10:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think people feel more secure when they have more & more severe forms of punishment. Look at people who strongly feel the police enforce what's right & wrong, their full of fear. Certainly it feels as if we're more "ok" if someone like a serial killer is put to death, the ultimate punishment (in some people's minds).


But if you look at the victim's family after the murder was put to death, they often don't feel any better. It doesn't end up replacing what's lost, and there is still a feeling of anger. People get angery when they're threatened, and "vegance" gives people a false sense of security and comfort.


Is society better off for putting a murderer to death? I don't have the answer to that, but doesn't solve the cause of murders and sociopaths. Punishment and rewards are a very basic form of control. I'm sure there are better methods, although sometimes it's hard to have the resources to put them into place.


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InvisibleLucidDream
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2481776 - 03/29/04 10:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

An interesting discussion on the death penalty. I feel the death penalty is overused, but I'm not entirely against it. I was pretty flippin relieved to see McVeigh give up the ghost.

Here's the thing about the death penalty: there's no point pretending it's a deterrent, or fair, or any other damn thing but satisfying on a crude, brutal, animal level.

It won't change any-damn-thing, but people will collectively pretend it has, because it makes them feel empowered over the vast, arbitrary unfairness that is life. As far as that goes, that's an end that occasionally demands to be satisfied. As long as we don't romanticize it, as long as we don't try to pretend it's right, sure, run with it. Fry the bastard. But let's never pretend that we occupy some higher ground of spiritual authority:

We'll kill him because he needs killin', and for no more honorable reason. And we'll pray we never need killing ourselves, because every dog has his day.


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Sarcasm just one of my many talents.



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InvisibleRavus
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: LucidDream]
    #2481922 - 03/29/04 11:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The death penalty is no deterrant. Those who will kill, will kill despite the consequences of their actions. If I were a killer and was caught, I'd much rather be killed than spend my life rotting away in prison. In fact, I'd much rather commit suicide than spend my life in prison. However, the facts are that the consequences don't work, just like on the War on Drugs; we should be studying the mind of the killer, using them as lab rats and seeing what works to stop their violent instincts, making medicines for them and such. Of course they'll never be released, but maybe we could prevent future murders, or at least learn much about the human brain, rather than wasting perfectly good specimens.

And the death penalty is incredibly expensive because of these politically correct people who want "civilized" deaths; I think it'd be much more civilized and much cheaper just to shoot them in the head rather than rigging up lethal injection and getting the electric chair, but maybe I'm just insane.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleLucidDream
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Ravus]
    #2482012 - 03/30/04 12:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
We should be studying the mind of the killer, using them as lab rats and seeing what works to stop their violent instincts




Frankly, I think killing them outright is far more humane. God forbid we should take up where Mengele left off. Given a choice, anyone would rather die quickly. I would not deny them that right. We are measured by our mercy.


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InvisibleTHEBOSS
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2482388 - 03/30/04 01:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Hey Mushkit, people who do kill never think about it at all. They just do it. Death penalty is not a deterant. IF it was then no one would be killing people.

The bible says though shall not kill. That means everyone, including the president.




I agree, but we also shouldn't spend millions of dollars a year on them to be kept in prisions. On the other hand if we took all the "victimless crime" perps out of are prisions that would free up a lot of money as well. I think we should make them work some kind of "business" for the area there prision is in, like assembling things, or making stuff, i dont know but im sure we can make them, make us more money than there costing us. Instead of wasting time thinking about who there going to jack when they get out they could do something constructive and learn a trade to put them on the right track. Thats just my $1.96, but death is in no way the answer.


THE BOSS


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Mushbox Forum


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: THEBOSS]
    #2483386 - 03/30/04 01:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't understand how it can be so expensive to kill someone. Hell, grab some Datura seeds, extract the badness, and inject. Total cost under $5. Hell, you don't have to even sterilize the needle! It's not like he's going to get infected.

*note: post is written in satire. I'm actually against the death penalty*


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Offlinerockytop83
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Twirling]
    #2483673 - 03/30/04 03:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)


Well, i live in the area that the sniper shootings took place. You dont think i was looking over my shoulder everytime i pumped gas? If he would not have been sentenced to death i would have been upset. I mean hell... this guy drives around striking terror in the lives of thousands, i dont even believe he had a motive. He was sport murdering, and some of you out there think that he should live a nice comfortable life in prison now? FUCK THAT. If it was burger king, and i could have it my way... I would hang that nigger downtown (malvo too) for everyone to see.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: rockytop83]
    #2483729 - 03/30/04 03:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

well, I live like four blocks from the home depot where that lady got shot in the parking lot.. but I wasn't hiding behind my car while pumping gas... Fuck living in fear.

Maybe he did have a motive, but we'll never know because even if he did have one the media will not tell you. To be perfectly honest, I'm more concerned about what those evil fucks are planning everytime I drive past the pentagon, moreso than some disgruntled war veteran. The military goes off and "accidentally" kills thousands of innocent people in a foreign country, and they are deemed "casualties of war", (note the word casuality, as if their deaths are casual..nothing to be worried about. Some guy goes crazy BECAUSE of the military, and starts popping off a few random people at home, and he is deemed a evil psychotic that should be put to death. People in this country need to get things into perspective. There is a war on freedom in this country, in case you haven't noticed, and pretty soon I'm going to start picking people off if things don't improve. Joking... but seriously... this John Allen character is no worse than any of our "national heroes" who kill people for a living. Oh.. they kill terrorists so that's ok.. well the only terrorists I know are in washington DC. I've never been terrorized by any of these islamic people. But I have been terrorized, all my life, by the motherfuckers in suits that drive chevy luminas. The real terrorists are the ones on CNN.


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Offlinerockytop83
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Shroomism]
    #2483740 - 03/30/04 03:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

dont change the subject. hang the nigger.


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~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: rockytop83]
    #2483756 - 03/30/04 03:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

while you're at it, hang half the fucks in office next to him.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: LucidDream]
    #2483770 - 03/30/04 03:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LucidDream said:
Quote:

Ravus said:
We should be studying the mind of the killer, using them as lab rats and seeing what works to stop their violent instincts




Frankly, I think killing them outright is far more humane. God forbid we should take up where Mengele left off. Given a choice, anyone would rather die quickly. I would not deny them that right. We are measured by our mercy.



I think they should get life in prison, but should have the option of taking a cyanide capsule at any point.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2483783 - 03/30/04 03:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Something to keep in mind... to err is human and everybody makes mistakes. An execution can not be undone. There have been numerous cases of death row inmates being proven innocent before their execution. How many have we murdered in the name of justice accidently? Even when the facts are obvious, I still feel it is a better punishment to slowly rot in a cell for the next fifty plus years than escape to the great unknown.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Seuss]
    #2483792 - 03/30/04 03:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Personally though, I would rather die than sit in a jail cell for the rest of my life. Though I am against the death penalty. But I digress..


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InvisibleRipple
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Shroomism]
    #2484005 - 03/30/04 04:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know how I feel about the death penalty but I?ll shed no tears for this fucking piece of shit


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: rockytop83]
    #2484179 - 03/30/04 05:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rockytop83 said: I would hang that nigger downtown (malvo too) for everyone to see.




There have been enough "nigger" hangings in the history of this country as it is. They didn't get us very far.


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Twirling]
    #2484187 - 03/30/04 05:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I should mention that I won't lose any sleep if the guy dies. It's not that important to me, but in general I think the death penalty isn't all that ducky.


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Offlinevalour
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Re: A Virginia judge today sentenced to death John Allen [Re: Ravus]
    #2484269 - 03/30/04 06:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This is demonstrably false. There would be people I know personally who would be dead right now if I didn't fear the death penalty.


--------------------
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I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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