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Offlineyogashaman21
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is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms?
    #24095762 - 02/16/17 05:55 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

the title is the question.

I was hoping it would be, as it is really difficult for me to obtain 'magic' mushrooms where I live. I was hoping that 4-aco-dmt would be a perfect substitute for shrooms because that is what I read online somewhere, on a psychedelic wikipedia of some sorts.

Also does anyone know the shelf life of 4-aco-dmt? Where I live I cannot keep it in the fridge of freezer, so I would need to know it's shelf life in a small glass vial on a shelf in a room-temperature room.

And one more thing; I read that doses of this are very small; is it possible to take it by just eyeballing the dose, or would I need to get a digital milligram scale?

And finally, is it better to mix with orange juice and drink it? Or a stronger acid like lemon juice? And is this what converts the 4-aco-dmt into psilocin?

Thanks and have a nice day


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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #24095779 - 02/16/17 05:59 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Parachute it. I've eyeballed but I found that made me anxious and the doses I was taking was nothing like I thought they were. Powder is inconsistent. So get scales. It stores really well. Cool dark place like virtually any other drug. No need to refridgerate it or freeze it.

Is it a good substitute? It depends what a good substitute is. If you mean, is it similar enough? Yes it is. To a lot of people. Is it enjoyable? Absolutely.


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Offlineyogashaman21
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: XLCaps]
    #24095854 - 02/16/17 06:26 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

thanks for this advice. But I thought that it had to be mixed with lemon or orange juice in order to for it to be effective?

Maybe I will purchase some 4-aco-dmt then, as I am not able to get mushrooms where I live; and I'm sure that 4-aco is still legal.


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InvisibleXLCaps
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #24095887 - 02/16/17 06:36 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

No problem. I'm not entirely convinced about the conversion. I've tried the lemon juice thing twice, one shorter, one longer. The shorter one I found was no different, and the longer one I think was actually less potent but it could have something to do with tolerance, the setting, or just the day. That could just be my experience, maybe it does work for others, but my speculation is that the reports about that method have to do with people interpreting the nutrients from the lemon juice itself in relation to their high. It also tastes like shit. Don't snort it either, you can but it burns and the drip is fucking horrid. Parachutes are the way to go, you can split a piece of kleenex into layers real easy, then make 1" squares.

Personally I'm very glad I got my scales. It seems like an extra expenditure, but when you look at it like I can buy a gram of 4aco for ~$130, which IIRC is relative to a 1/4lb of shrooms.. yeah it's not a big deal. I didn't truly enjoy my experiences with it until I scaled it. To me, it's really weird to do drugs and not be absolutely certain what and how much I'm taking. Safety first right?

Good luck, and enjoy.


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OfflineThe Blind Ass
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: XLCaps]
    #24095958 - 02/16/17 07:02 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Do not eyeball RC's.  That is irresponsible and can lead to problems small and big for yourself and the community at large.  Get a scale.


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Offlineyogashaman21
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24096138 - 02/16/17 08:10 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

thanks for the help.


Edited by yogashaman21 (02/16/17 10:04 PM)


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Offlinebreeg89
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24096369 - 02/16/17 09:57 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Do not eyeball RC's.  That is irresponsible and can lead to problems small and big for yourself and the community at large.  Get a scale.




Please listen to this guy. I eye-balled 4-HO-MET once and had a terrible time. Just spend the extra cash and wait a few days to get the scale.

I've never tried 4-AcO-DMT, but I'd think anyone would be hard-pressed to distinguish it from mushrooms in a blind test.


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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: breeg89]
    #24096384 - 02/16/17 10:05 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Being a supposed active pro drug, the effects can vary from person to person based on individual pharmacology. I'll put it this way, based on how and the rate of metabolism, you're likely to get slightly different ratios of actives crossing the blood brain barrier. Both drugs have slightly different effects and as many of us know, the different dose ratios we mix our drugs in can create a very much different experience.


Edited by XLCaps (02/16/17 10:42 PM)


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OfflineThe Blind Ass
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: XLCaps]
    #24096389 - 02/16/17 10:06 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

"supposed pro-drug"

is different from a real pro-drug.  fyi


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InvisibleXLCaps
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24096404 - 02/16/17 10:10 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

There is good evidence it is both active and a pro drug but not concrete evidence. I've eaten a lot of the stuff, and a fair amount of shrooms as well, I'm pretty confident in both assessments, but I'm not going to just come out and say I'm certain about something I'm not.

There is endless amounts of chemistry/pharmacology, and anecdotal reports on 4aco, but no actual studies to my knowledge.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #24096461 - 02/16/17 10:31 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

yogashaman21 said:
the title is the question.

I was hoping it would be, as it is really difficult for me to obtain 'magic' mushrooms where I live. I was hoping that 4-aco-dmt would be a perfect substitute for shrooms because that is what I read online somewhere, on a psychedelic wikipedia of some sorts.

Also does anyone know the shelf life of 4-aco-dmt? Where I live I cannot keep it in the fridge of freezer, so I would need to know it's shelf life in a small glass vial on a shelf in a room-temperature room.

And one more thing; I read that doses of this are very small; is it possible to take it by just eyeballing the dose, or would I need to get a digital milligram scale?

And finally, is it better to mix with orange juice and drink it? Or a stronger acid like lemon juice? And is this what converts the 4-aco-dmt into psilocin?

Thanks and have a nice day







I've tried the stuff twice and thoroughly enjoyed it....

...Some people say it's exactly like mushrooms for them, but I (and some others) feel that it does have its own character and some differences.



I found it to be very similar to mushrooms but perhaps a bit more easy going and a bit more lucid/clear...it seemed to be bit more visual as well. With that said, the doses I took were relatively mild and I did have some slight tolerance.



I'm not sure on the shelf life, but no need to keep it in a freezer...keeping it sealed well and in a dark & room temp setting should be just fine for a long while.


No need to mix it with or drink it with orange or lemon juice.



Of course it's best to get a scale :yesnod: ....We eye balled it the two times I tried it, but I don't condone such things.




To answer the question of the subject directly though....Yes, I do think 4-aco-dmt can substitute mushrooms and at the same time it can be appreciated as its own thing.







-OM


.


--------------------


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: XLCaps]
    #24096465 - 02/16/17 10:32 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Based on my limited experience with 4-ACO-DMT so far, i'd say it does indeed metabolize into Psilocin, i'm pretty certain. But the 4-ACO is also active on it's own before it's metabolized into Psilocin, much like i'd imagine Psilocybin could also be active on it's own before metabolizing into Psilocin. Taking 4-ACO-DMT with Peganum Harmala gave me very similar effects to taking Shrooms with Peganum Harmala, and even gave me the big arm sensory perception thing i get from Shrooms, but i'd say 4-ACO-DMT and 4-PO-DMT differ a little bit but both metabolize into Psilocin. Also taking the 4-ACO-DMT with Peganum Harmala potentiates it and lengthens the duration out to 9 to 12 hours or so much like the Peganum Harmala does for Shrooms. Also at times i've noticed 4-ACO-DMT sometimes feels more Shroom-like, and other times it can feel more DMT-like.

Also i'd imagine straight 4-ACO-DMT would be similar to a Shroom tea in a way, in terms of how quick it hits and how shorter it is compared to just eating Shrooms, but the Peganum Harmala definitely lengthens the duration of both 4-ACO-DMT and Shrooms.


--------------------


Edited by Sabnock (02/17/17 12:58 AM)


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: Sabnock]
    #24096698 - 02/17/17 12:29 AM (6 months, 30 days ago)

I found the experience to be virtually indistinguishable from lemon tek to 4-aco-dmt.

4-ACO-DMT compared to mushrooms is a deeper, more lucid and clear visionary state in the way its quick to peak, and quick to fade. Similarly as Mushrooms is to Lemon tek.

It's all psilocin, now 4aco is also active on its own giving it a slight "character" is the only way to describe it, to me it feels more so like oral DMT.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #24097244 - 02/17/17 10:36 AM (6 months, 29 days ago)

On conversion:
Quote:

SUMMARY:
-------------------------------------
The hydrolysis of 4-aco-dmt into 4-ho-dmt is done with 10ml of water, 50mg 4-aco-dmt, 2 drops of muriatic, (then heat to 140 degree F for 20 minutes), put a dish of some kind with ice on it above the heating flask so any hcl vapors drip back down into flask (reflux lid may not even be needed)...then cool it down for 15 minutes, then add a smidgen of baking soda (to neutralize, leftover is just salt and carbon dixoxide that evaporates off) then preserve with vitamin c, and freeze (it is a solid clear white color) in a vial converts all of it into 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) in a short amount of time. each 2ml = 10mg of 4-ho-dmt.
---------------------------------------

The acid catalyzed hydrolysis of acetyl-psilocin to psilocin worked much better than the base (naoh) catalyzed hydrolysis, all of the psilocin seems to have been preserved (none of it oxidized)....psilocin is unstable in hot alkaline solutions, but is stable in acetic environments. Light was also turned off during 20 minute reflux, 10mg was sampled, and it was 100% different from 4-aco-dmt. 4-ho-dmt came on quickly within 20 minutes, was stimulating and felt like an amphetamine, very awake, very euphoric and definately psychedelic. Pupils fully dilated, extremely visual and psychedelic, not even a hint of sedation or loss of muscular control, able to move around freely in strong psychedelic state. it also felt as if I had taken 80mg of mdma (just as Shulgin states on his below 10mg dose of 4-ho-dmt)...very nice.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-Tregar; http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15913155rking


I posted about it here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19879509/fpart/all/vc/1


Zombi3 did an experiment in the same thread and uploaded a picture showing the blue coloration of the resultant solution.




--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: flickedbic]
    #24097258 - 02/17/17 10:43 AM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Definitely 4-ACO has its own individual activity separate from Psilocin, the latter being more stimulating and chaotic.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Offlineyogashaman21
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: flickedbic]
    #24097507 - 02/17/17 12:46 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

thanks for the replies.

I don't think I will purchase any 4-aco-dmt ever because I would still prefer to have an(other) authentic mushroom experiece over a chemical experience.


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InvisibleXLCaps
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: flickedbic]
    #24097548 - 02/17/17 01:03 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

flickedbic said:
On conversion:
Quote:

SUMMARY:
-------------------------------------
The hydrolysis of 4-aco-dmt into 4-ho-dmt is done with 10ml of water, 50mg 4-aco-dmt, 2 drops of muriatic, (then heat to 140 degree F for 20 minutes), put a dish of some kind with ice on it above the heating flask so any hcl vapors drip back down into flask (reflux lid may not even be needed)...then cool it down for 15 minutes, then add a smidgen of baking soda (to neutralize, leftover is just salt and carbon dixoxide that evaporates off) then preserve with vitamin c, and freeze (it is a solid clear white color) in a vial converts all of it into 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) in a short amount of time. each 2ml = 10mg of 4-ho-dmt.
---------------------------------------

The acid catalyzed hydrolysis of acetyl-psilocin to psilocin worked much better than the base (naoh) catalyzed hydrolysis, all of the psilocin seems to have been preserved (none of it oxidized)....psilocin is unstable in hot alkaline solutions, but is stable in acetic environments. Light was also turned off during 20 minute reflux, 10mg was sampled, and it was 100% different from 4-aco-dmt. 4-ho-dmt came on quickly within 20 minutes, was stimulating and felt like an amphetamine, very awake, very euphoric and definately psychedelic. Pupils fully dilated, extremely visual and psychedelic, not even a hint of sedation or loss of muscular control, able to move around freely in strong psychedelic state. it also felt as if I had taken 80mg of mdma (just as Shulgin states on his below 10mg dose of 4-ho-dmt)...very nice.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-Tregar; http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15913155rking


I posted about it here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19879509/fpart/all/vc/1


Zombi3 did an experiment in the same thread and uploaded a picture showing the blue coloration of the resultant solution.








Dude.. fuckin' sage :rockon:

Muriatic acid is hella obtainable :awesomenod:


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #24097554 - 02/17/17 01:05 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

yogashaman21 said:
thanks for the replies.

I don't think I will purchase any 4-aco-dmt ever because I would still prefer to have an(other) authentic mushroom experiece over a chemical experience.




I say, stock up on all the 4-ACO you can... i am because idk if/when i'll come across Shrooms again. And you can get more doses of Psilocin from 4-ACO then i'd imagine you'd be able to find with Shrooms, especially for the price (unless you grow your own Shrooms or something).


--------------------


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InvisibleXLCaps
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: Sabnock]
    #24097584 - 02/17/17 01:18 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Yeah 4aco dmt is a great. Forget the comparison.. good drugs are good drugs.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms? [Re: yogashaman21]
    #24097901 - 02/17/17 03:31 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Eclipse3130 said:
.....to me it feels more so like oral DMT.




Quote:

Sabnock said:
....Also at times i've noticed 4-ACO-DMT sometimes feels more Shroom-like, and other times it can feel more DMT-like.

Also i'd imagine straight 4-ACO-DMT would be similar to a Shroom tea in a way, in terms of how quick it hits and how shorter it is compared to just eating Shrooms....







I forgot to mention in my previous post....

...I too definitly found 4-aco to be DMT-esque at moments, particularly the visual component. Of course psilocin/nn-dmt/4-aco-dmt are all very similar to one another in structure and the experience they catalyze. I found 4-aco-dmt to be somewhere between nn-dmt and psilocin, but more similar to psilocin.


I also concur with sabnock, about the profile & timeline of a trip with 4-aco being similar to taking mushrooms via tea.











Quote:

....was stimulating and felt like an amphetamine, very awake, very euphoric and definately psychedelic. Pupils fully dilated, extremely visual and psychedelic, not even a hint of sedation or loss of muscular control, able to move around freely in strong psychedelic state. it also felt as if I had taken 80mg of mdma....





That's EXACTLY what the later 1/2 of a mushroom trip is like for me...The first 1/2 I'm super sedated, sleepy/lethargic, don't feel like doing anything other than laying down...My mind is cloudy & slow and my body feels weak and drunk, it's hard to do much of anything other than lay around.


Then somewhere 1/2 way into the trip, within the span of about 30 to 90 seconds the entire demeanor the trip changes for me....The layer of sedation & lethargy lifts and fades away, I feel a zing of energy both physically and mentally, my mind becomes lit up and sharp and crystal clear, I start to get euphoria and empathy and a general head space & feels that is very reminiscent of MDMA.

I feel absolutely "LIT" in the most natural way possible :lol: . Nothing comes close to giving me the energy and stamina and clarity of mind that the later 1/2 of a mushroom trip does.














Quote:

yogashaman21 said:
is 4-aco-dmt a suitable substitute for psilocybin mushrooms?.....

I was hoping it would be, as it is really difficult for me to obtain 'magic' mushrooms where I live. I was hoping that 4-aco-dmt would be a perfect substitute for shrooms......



.....I don't think I will purchase any 4-aco-dmt ever because I would still prefer to have an(other) authentic mushroom experiece over a chemical experience.






So what made you change your mind?


Your original post made it sound like you were looking for a substitute for mushrooms since you can't acquire them where you live, and many in this thread said that 4-aco-dmt is indeed very similar to damn near identical to mushrooms....


...but now you're saying that you don't ever want to try 4-aco-dmt ? Why not?



You can still have an authentic experience with 4-aco-dmt...and tripping on mushrooms is still a "chemical experience" :shrug: .









-OM



.


--------------------


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