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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate
    #24088040 - 02/13/17 09:00 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

I'll be on the side of the affirmative.  All are welcome to join either side.

What I ask for is an actual scientific discussion based on the best arguments that it is real.

I haven't done any research and until recently just took it for granted that it was a thing, or that it didn't matter as long as climate change was real.

But I have changed my mind on that.  Because these two possible truths require a different set of political policies.

If global warming is real, then I agree that we should take steps to ensure that we push for a conservation of our natural resources on a global level.

If it is not, then I am far less concerned with the use of carbon-based fuel sources and would likely promote using the energy we have while we have it.

So, let me hear the arguments.  I want to see the hard evidence that global warming is a thing.

Please don't just link to an article that says "it's a thing."  Use links to site evidence or data only and only as part of an argument or claim.

Let's see how this goes.


--------------------
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The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24088186 - 02/13/17 09:58 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Earth's 2016 surface temperatures were the warmest since modern recordkeeping began in 1880, according to independent analyses by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

Globally-averaged temperatures in 2016 were 1.78 degrees Fahrenheit (0.99 degrees Celsius) warmer than the mid-20th century mean. This makes 2016 the third year in a row to set a new record for global average surface temperatures.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24088209 - 02/13/17 10:09 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

the problem with the topic of global warming is that it's a political stage directed by stooges


here's an example of one climate scientist that's had enough

https://judithcurry.com/2017/01/03/jc-in-transition/


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: California]
    #24088434 - 02/13/17 11:47 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

California said:
Earth's 2016 surface temperatures were the warmest since modern recordkeeping began in 1880, according to independent analyses by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

Globally-averaged temperatures in 2016 were 1.78 degrees Fahrenheit (0.99 degrees Celsius) warmer than the mid-20th century mean. This makes 2016 the third year in a row to set a new record for global average surface temperatures.




This is evidence of a trend toward the climate warming.  I will concede that this trend is happening.

I am looking for the causal link between human industry and that warming.

It's the difference between global warming and climate change.  I admit we are trending toward warming.  I am interested in the human element.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24088574 - 02/14/17 12:41 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Sorry to bring this up, but. . .

Space rocks!:rockon:

I recommend listening to the Joe Rogan experience when he has Randall Carlson as a guest, number 501 and 606 notably. Better yet, watch them on YouTube.

Catastrophes has caused more climate change than humans ever will in their entire existence on this planet.

You think about a volcano and the amount of gasses expelled into the atmosphere, engulfing the planet, blocking sunlight, etc.

Global warming is real, but humans have little to do with it. IMHO


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.                                                                        Bringing out our hope and reason. . .
                   
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Edited by HamHead (02/14/17 04:51 AM)


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InvisibleI_was_the_walrus
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Senor_Doobie] * 1
    #24088585 - 02/14/17 12:44 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

CO2 abundances are from the combustion of fossil fuels, not volcanoes. This is evidenced by isotopic ratios.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: HamHead]
    #24088586 - 02/14/17 12:45 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Again semantics.

Please, climate change refers to changes in climate, manmade or otherwise.

Global warming refers to human contributions to climate change.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24088953 - 02/14/17 05:23 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)



Graph shows ice core data from central Greenland.

:popcorn:


--------------------
.                                                                        Bringing out our hope and reason. . .
                   
                                                                                    Before we pine away.


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OnlineLogicaL Chaos
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: HamHead]
    #24088960 - 02/14/17 05:29 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

This link shows a steady increase in CO2 over the last 50 years at the very isolated observatory on the wide of Mauna Loa on the Big Island.


https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/mlo/



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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #24088962 - 02/14/17 05:29 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

this photo was taken this past winter



jack from titanic, clearly alive

i rest my case


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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Niffla] * 1
    #24089008 - 02/14/17 06:17 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
Sorry to bring this up, but. . .

Space rocks!:rockon:

I recommend listening to the Joe Rogan experience when he has Randall Carlson as a guest, number 501 and 606 notably. Better yet, watch them on YouTube.

Catastrophes has caused more climate change than humans ever will in their entire existence on this planet.

You think about a volcano and the amount of gasses expelled into the atmosphere, engulfing the planet, blocking sunlight, etc.

Global warming is real, but humans have little to do with it. IMHO



Current CO2 levels are not natural. Going back half a million years. CO2 cycled reliably in a limited range. Then 150 years ago, coinciding with the industrial revolution, levels broke out of the long term trading range.





Temperatures were fairly stable over the past 1500 years until the past century.



Sea levels were stable until the last century



CO2 drives the climate and we now have CO2 levels nearly twice as high as they had been at any point in the last 3 million years.


--------------------
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Edited by koods (02/14/17 06:20 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24089145 - 02/14/17 08:57 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
This link shows a steady increase in CO2 over the last 50 years at the very isolated observatory on the wide of Mauna Loa on the Big Island.


https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/mlo/







shows the CO2 on the isolated but active volcano, Mauna Loa

one of the graphs that koods posted already showed that CO2 rises after the temperatures


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #24089159 - 02/14/17 09:10 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

The temperature rise being caused by humans definitely seems most plausible to me

https://xkcd.com/1732/


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Offlinenothing exists
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #24089160 - 02/14/17 09:10 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

AGW is a ruse to keep fools from focusing on real environmental issues that actually are killing the planet such as triclosan, pharmaceuticals and fukushima.

happy arguing, fools


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: koods]
    #24089163 - 02/14/17 09:11 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Quote:

California said:
Earth's 2016 surface temperatures were the warmest since modern recordkeeping began in 1880, according to independent analyses by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

Globally-averaged temperatures in 2016 were 1.78 degrees Fahrenheit (0.99 degrees Celsius) warmer than the mid-20th century mean. This makes 2016 the third year in a row to set a new record for global average surface temperatures.




This is evidence of a trend toward the climate warming.  I will concede that this trend is happening.

I am looking for the causal link between human industry and that warming.

It's the difference between global warming and climate change.  I admit we are trending toward warming.  I am interested in the human element.




The notion that CO2 is the most important climate driver or "cause" of global warming brings human activity to be blamed as the reason.  The climate scientists and those bought off have agreed that it's CO2 and the EPA has agreed those humans shall be punished!  Even the Pope and the Catholic Church have gotten into the act.  Thou will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 

Think for a minute about all those SRM planes flying around.  Look it up if that didn't make sense. 

Think for a minute about 400 nuclear reactors boiling water over and over and over, pulling water into their cooling towers from rivers or the ocean, warming that water.  Maybe we need to tax the nuclear industry.  Oh wait, they get our tax money instead after fucking things up.  Never mind.

Think for a minute about water vapor and methane as greenhouse gases.  Water is the big one by volume, methane the big one by it's potency.  Are humans also to blame for methane releases from the seabed, because we added the CO2 from driving our cars and burning coal?

Pray for the earth, and pay your taxes.  The fossil fuel taxation is going to get insane.  Before you know it we will be taxes by the mile. 
Check out CA they are always in bed with the UN and are pushing hard for 50% cuts in fossil fuel use alone with massive taxes.  Walking and bicycling being their "alternatives" along with live where you work eat and shit.

Catholic Church and their climate change push to punish the congregation.



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Offlinenothing exists
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24089203 - 02/14/17 09:46 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Not even the very deepest, darkest depths of Earth’s oceans can escape mankind’s legacy of toxic pollution.

In a shocking discovery highlighting the interconnectedness of our planet, scientists have detected “extremely high levels” of organic chemicals in the fatty tissue of amphipods, a type of crustacean, living in Mariana trench ― the deepest part of the world’s oceans.




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/toxic-pollutants-mariana-trench-alan-jamieson_us_58a1f7fee4b03df370d8eaac?fvog5z4vmb3wbqpvi&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


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OfflinekoodsM
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #24089223 - 02/14/17 09:55 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Temperature does not drive CO2 levels, CO2 levels drive temperature. In fact, CO2 sequestration actually increases with warmer temperatures in a very weak negative feedback .

Quote:

Think for a minute about 400 nuclear reactors boiling water over and over and over, pulling water into their cooling towers from rivers or the ocean, warming that water.  Maybe we need to tax the nuclear indust




an average nuclear power plant produces 10,000,000,000 BTU per hour.

The sun shining on one square mile produces 6,000,000,000 BTU per hour.

The heat from nuclear power is totally insignificant as a heat source especially since nuclear heat is generated by radioactive decay that would happen anyway. Reactors are simply concentrating that heat. The amount of heat produced would be the same if the the uranium was never mined..


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: koods]
    #24089230 - 02/14/17 10:00 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

since nuclear heat is generated by radioactive decay that would happen anyway



if this is the level of ignorance we are dealing with, then this planet is certainly doomed


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InvisibleXLCaps
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: koods]
    #24089240 - 02/14/17 10:04 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

I used to live within a few kilometers of one of, if not THE, world's largest nuclear power facilities and that shit does not take up even a square kilometer, let alone mile. We're talking twice the output of the sun.


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Offlinenothing exists
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Re: Global Warming -- A Scientific Debate [Re: XLCaps]
    #24089251 - 02/14/17 10:09 AM (5 months, 1 day ago)

i get it, you guys work for the nuclear power industry.

carry on.


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