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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Breaking up Grain Bags
    #24081893 - 02/11/17 10:23 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Guys

So I've been letting a grain bag colonize for about a month now and its gone really slow ( most likely due to my lower temps). And yesterday i decided to break them up as a tek has suggested when you want to speed up growth.

The tek did specify to be careful when breaking them up as to not damage the mycelium, and although i did my best to break it up carefully, some of the mycelium has turned a dark dark blue almost a black. I assume its just heavy bruising, but if the mycelium turns black, does that mean its been too damaged and is now dead?

If it is damaged too badly, will the mycelium network be able to recover as it starts to regrow? or will these dark black spots stay black and the healthy mycelium unable to grow over it?

Pics Below





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InvisibleJosh.0
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24081938 - 02/11/17 10:48 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Is this pic right after you broke it up? What was the innocculent used?
What's the temp like?
It Should be straight as long as myc is the sole tendent in your bag.
Neading a bag is the same as shaking up a jar..I doubt it will slow down or not recolonize
Your Using rye correct?
When I would use whole brown rice it would blue like crazy(contrasts well against a off-white grain)
The tubs that were made from it turnout just fine
I doubt you killed your bag

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Josh.0]
    #24081947 - 02/11/17 10:51 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I shake the bejeesus out of grain jars and never get bruising like that.

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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Josh.0]
    #24082017 - 02/11/17 11:27 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Josh.0 said:
Is this pic right after you broke it up? What was the innocculent used?
What's the temp like?
It Should be straight as long as myc is the sole tendent in your bag.
Neading a bag is the same as shaking up a jar..I doubt it will slow down or not recolonize
Your Using rye correct?
When I would use whole brown rice it would blue like crazy(contrasts well against a off-white grain)
The tubs that were made from it turnout just fine
I doubt you killed your bag




This pic was taken like the next day, I used a spore syringe, the temperature was around 66-68 degrees, but i recently move it into an area of my house that gets it to 70 degrees stable.

Yes I am using Rye.

On a side not, while this thing was colonizing before i broke it up, i was handling it a decent amount. I would pick the bag up out of the cupboard to look at it, and in the process my fingers were touching colonized portions of the bag, and once i did that there was very minor and slight bruising afterwards.

I almost think that it go so dark because it had already been PREVIOUSLY bruised, and when i actually broke it up, the already bruised mycelium got much darker.

Any more thoughts?

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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #24082023 - 02/11/17 11:29 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
I shake the bejeesus out of grain jars and never get bruising like that.




I also shook my grain jars i had, and did not get bruising like the bag, but again, I think that the bags being already slightly bruised contributed to such dark bruising. does this seem like a fair assumption?

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OfflineCapnZ
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24082169 - 02/11/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I've broken up a lot of grain bags, pretty enthusiastically and never got bruising like that. Nowhere close. Possibly bacteria. Watch how quickly the bag recovers.


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Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...

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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CapnZ]
    #24082176 - 02/11/17 12:55 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CapnZ said:
I've broken up a lot of grain bags, pretty enthusiastically and never got bruising like that. Nowhere close. Possibly bacteria. Watch how quickly the bag recovers.




If this is bacteria, should it have a strong smell?  and if the black starts to fade back to white that should tell me that it was indeed heavy bruising correct? Does Mycelium recover from bruising? ( in respect to turning white again)

And in respect to your many grain bags that you have broken up, were any of them already previously bruised?

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24082187 - 02/11/17 01:03 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

That is bacteria/mold.

I have shaken, beat, slammed, and roughly handled grain bags.the slow colonization is due to contamination.

That is not bruising.. shakong grain you don't need to wory about damaging myc.


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OfflineCapnZ
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Brain Fart]
    #24082413 - 02/11/17 02:54 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

None of my grain bags ever bruised.


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Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...

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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CapnZ]
    #24082698 - 02/11/17 05:02 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Ok I think im gonna toss it out, MY grain jars dont have this issue at all, and when i got these from **** there were some negatives reviews on the bags in particular, so im not surprised it got contaminated.

Im just surprised because it appeared to be a clean colonization before i broke it up, but i guess that contamination was in the middle of the grains and thats how it got exposed

Edited by Prisoner#1 (02/11/17 07:18 PM)

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OfflineCapnZ
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24082778 - 02/11/17 05:41 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Totally possible.


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Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24082779 - 02/11/17 05:41 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

**** is awesome. Bags in general are just trickier than jars IME. I only use bags to g2g to from jars before spawning to bulk.

Mike at Out-Grow is the man. His products are great. I'm gonna have to say the error was probably on your end :shrug:


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Edited by Prisoner#1 (02/11/17 07:19 PM)

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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Brain Fart]
    #24082980 - 02/11/17 06:52 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Out Grow is awesome. Bags in general are just trickier than jars IME. I only use bags to g2g to from jars before spawning to bulk.

Mike at ...... is the man. His products are great. I'm gonna have to say the error was probably on your end :shrug:





Well the only thing that I could think of on my end that would be in error would hypothetically be my sterile technique. But my sterile technique with every single other substrate method (jars, BRF cakes) have been absolutely fine. no contamination. I take excessive sterile technique precautions. And seeing as how i did my jars and grain bag at the same time, it makes little sense that my inoculation procedure was the cause of contamination. Especially considering all the bad reviews of this specific product.

Edited by Prisoner#1 (02/11/17 07:19 PM)

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Offlineseventy7
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo] * 1
    #24083071 - 02/11/17 07:39 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

I started with bags (unsuccessfully) before jars after reading bags were 'easier'. And I know now they're easier but they pose different challenges than jars. The biggest difference I found: when you handle or pick up the bag in any way, it changes the volume of the bag, which pushes air in/out of the filter as the bag changes shape. Also, the walls of the bag press on the grain when you pick up the bag. That's not to say bags are bad, but I feel like excessive handling of bags can be bad for these reasons (TCs shut me up if Im wrong :grin:)

These problems dont exist when using jars as the glass holds its shape and keeps everything still. I would reccomend trying a jar run, as a beginner it felt a lot easier.


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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24083074 - 02/11/17 07:40 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

I incoculated a bag and jar same syringe.

Bag went bad. Jar is fine. Bags are just not ideal for inoculating without selfhealing inoc ports imo. I use them for g2g only


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Brain Fart]
    #24083912 - 02/12/17 07:23 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

well im standing next to my spawn bag....and I break it up with the edge of my hand.

I mix up all the pieces with some substrate, I might not even have to mist and fan  :hamletmonkey:


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: blindingleaf]
    #24084075 - 02/12/17 09:07 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
well im standing next to my spawn bag....and I break it up with the edge of my hand.

I mix up all the pieces with some substrate, I might not even have to mist and fan  :hamletmonkey:




:lolwut:


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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: seventy7]
    #24084234 - 02/12/17 10:08 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

seventy7 said:
I started with bags (unsuccessfully) before jars after reading bags were 'easier'. And I know now they're easier but they pose different challenges than jars. The biggest difference I found: when you handle or pick up the bag in any way, it changes the volume of the bag, which pushes air in/out of the filter as the bag changes shape. Also, the walls of the bag press on the grain when you pick up the bag. That's not to say bags are bad, but I feel like excessive handling of bags can be bad for these reasons (TCs shut me up if Im wrong :grin:)

These problems dont exist when using jars as the glass holds its shape and keeps everything still. I would reccomend trying a jar run, as a beginner it felt a lot easier.




That Makes a lot of sense, Do you think that by changing the volume and pushing air in/out of the bag by constant handling, somehow compromised the filter?

I mean ultimatley 1 of 2 things have happened, either this bag wasnt properly sterilized or the contamination happened at some point during colonization. I mean this bad was colonizing for about a month, and it almost covered half the bag, and there seemed to be no contamination, everything was a nice white with little bits of blue from where i was touching them. Only when i broke them up did the black become exposed.

Anyway I'm glad i got the bag for free because there was a mix up with my order and OUTGROW gave me my grain jars for free. I think I'm always going to use jars they just seem much more fool proof.

Can you dump contaminated grains into nature (outside) and if they fruit would that mean that they have kind of filtered themselves out of the contaminant? is it worth to just throw these outside and see what happenes? or is it possible for like the mushroom to absorb the contaminant and create a poisonous mushroom?

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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: CubeSteakPoo]
    #24084364 - 02/12/17 10:45 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CubeSteakPoo said:
Quote:

seventy7 said:
I started with bags (unsuccessfully) before jars after reading bags were 'easier'. And I know now they're easier but they pose different challenges than jars. The biggest difference I found: when you handle or pick up the bag in any way, it changes the volume of the bag, which pushes air in/out of the filter as the bag changes shape. Also, the walls of the bag press on the grain when you pick up the bag. That's not to say bags are bad, but I feel like excessive handling of bags can be bad for these reasons (TCs shut me up if Im wrong :grin:)

These problems dont exist when using jars as the glass holds its shape and keeps everything still. I would reccomend trying a jar run, as a beginner it felt a lot easier.




That Makes a lot of sense, Do you think that by changing the volume and pushing air in/out of the bag by constant handling, somehow compromised the filter?

I mean ultimatley 1 of 2 things have happened, either this bag wasnt properly sterilized or the contamination happened at some point during colonization. I mean this bad was colonizing for about a month, and it almost covered half the bag, and there seemed to be no contamination, everything was a nice white with little bits of blue from where i was touching them. Only when i broke them up did the black become exposed.

Anyway I'm glad i got the bag for free because there was a mix up with my order and OUTGROW gave me my grain jars for free. I think I'm always going to use jars they just seem much more fool proof.

Can you dump contaminated grains into nature (outside) and if they fruit would that mean that they have kind of filtered themselves out of the contaminant? is it worth to just throw these outside and see what happenes? or is it possible for like the mushroom to absorb the contaminant and create a poisonous mushroom?




Mike at outgrow is awesome..great vendor.

You also could easily have introduced contamination at the time of inoculation regardless of how sterile you think you were.

Sure put it outside. Bury the grains with a thin amount of earth or jiffy mux and keep moist (as long as it is warm outside)


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OfflineCubeSteakPoo
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Re: Breaking up Grain Bags [Re: Brain Fart]
    #24084392 - 02/12/17 10:53 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Fart said:
Quote:

CubeSteakPoo said:
Quote:

seventy7 said:
I started with bags (unsuccessfully) before jars after reading bags were 'easier'. And I know now they're easier but they pose different challenges than jars. The biggest difference I found: when you handle or pick up the bag in any way, it changes the volume of the bag, which pushes air in/out of the filter as the bag changes shape. Also, the walls of the bag press on the grain when you pick up the bag. That's not to say bags are bad, but I feel like excessive handling of bags can be bad for these reasons (TCs shut me up if Im wrong :grin:)

These problems dont exist when using jars as the glass holds its shape and keeps everything still. I would reccomend trying a jar run, as a beginner it felt a lot easier.




That Makes a lot of sense, Do you think that by changing the volume and pushing air in/out of the bag by constant handling, somehow compromised the filter?

I mean ultimatley 1 of 2 things have happened, either this bag wasnt properly sterilized or the contamination happened at some point during colonization. I mean this bad was colonizing for about a month, and it almost covered half the bag, and there seemed to be no contamination, everything was a nice white with little bits of blue from where i was touching them. Only when i broke them up did the black become exposed.

Anyway I'm glad i got the bag for free because there was a mix up with my order and OUTGROW gave me my grain jars for free. I think I'm always going to use jars they just seem much more fool proof.

Can you dump contaminated grains into nature (outside) and if they fruit would that mean that they have kind of filtered themselves out of the contaminant? is it worth to just throw these outside and see what happenes? or is it possible for like the mushroom to absorb the contaminant and create a poisonous mushroom?




Mike at outgrow is awesome..great vendor.

You also could easily have introduced contamination at the time of inoculation regardless of how sterile you think you were.

Sure put it outside. Bury the grains with a thin amount of earth or jiffy mux and keep moist (as long as it is warm outside)






Is it possible to bury them deep enough into the ground to where they can insulate themselves and stay dormant until the warmer months come around?

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