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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Confidence
    #2407341 - 03/08/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Something i have noticed is that people put way too much stock in confidence.

Whether I'm approaching women, interviewing for a job, or just dealing with people in general, I notice this.

If a job interveiwer asks me if I'm the best at what i do, what am I supposed to say? I know I'm not the best, but I also know that the interviewer isnt gonna hire me if I admit that there is someone better than me. Its like bullshitting, egotism, and overconfidence have become so much a part of the interviewing process that the modest man looks like a weak idiot.

I noticed this in the drug scene a lot, too. Back when I was a dealer, I would always try to be honest about the quality of my product. Whereas other dealers would just straight up hype their shit, spinning lies and misinformation to sell their shit. And people buy it. I always got less business than those bullshiting hustlers, even though the vasty majority of the time I had a better product at a cheaper price. The difference was that i was willing to admit the faults in my product, whereas they said nothing but good shit (much of which was untrue) about theirs.

Seriously, dealers would say shit like: "The pills I have right now are the best in the city." And people would buy it, without realizing that in order to substantiate such a claim, the dealer would have to have tried every pill in the city, which is damn near impossible in a city this large and diverse. And people would come up to me like: "that dude over there said his pills are the best in the city. can yours match that?" And I would be like "hell, no! thats a bogus claim" Then I would try to explain to them about the illogicality of his claim, and how pushers lie and you cant trust them, but most of the time they would just get real confused and end up buying from the other dude. idiots.

I notice this shit in women, too. They always seem to want the guy that has all the easy answers. They dont want a guy who doubts himself, even though that guy is more likely to grow and become closer to the truth than the guy who never admits his faults. The sad thing is that overconfidence costs in the long run. How many business majors who are convinced they're gonna be the next bill gates will actually make it that far? Why do women fall for these castles in the sky? What are they going to do when that guy fucks up and bankrupts himself by overconfidently gambling for too high stakes in the market?

(I guess this could apply to men, too. I only say women are like this because I dont persue men romanticaly and have no knowledge of whether they dig confidence or not. personally, I dont. but I'm a wierdo)

Maybe advertisinghas something to do with it. People come to expect that commercial quality in everything. If its not 100% good, its worthless. Never mind the fact that advertisements lie. Everyone is so eager to swallow that blue pill.

Worst off is how this affects politics. People vote for egotism. They are not going to vote for the guy who is willing to admit he doesnt have all the answers, or that the solution to our problems might be painful. They would rather vote for some fool who has utmost confidence in his (usually wrong in some way) ideas.

Why do people prize confidence and self-esteem so highly? In my mind, confidence almost always equals incompetence. I tend to seek out the people that doubt themselves and dont take anything for granted. These people are the world's unsung heroes. Though they are almost always closer to the truth, they will never get the recognition they deserve, because people dont want the truth. they want fantasy. they want a happy ending where everyone gets married and rides off into the sunset to their white house with picket fences. Well, reality aint like that folks.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


Edited by DoctorJ (03/08/04 03:58 PM)


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2407629 - 03/08/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's dumb. Same thing goes for scholarships too. The cleanest looking bullshitter always wins.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2408520 - 03/08/04 08:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I notice this, too, in the legal profession.  You have to act like you can get the guy off or win the case, hands down, no problem.  I tell people now, when they call me, that if they call another attorney and he promises them the sun and the moon , that it's bull shit, and not to listen to them.  (called setting land mines)

People are afraid they will be missing out if they don't "buy" the best.  Only intelligent people, who also do their own research and have their own minds, will understand what you are trying to say to them.

I think people want "easy".  Things they don't have to work for.  Things that make them look good without too much effort.  Promises of pots of gold at the end of the rainbow instead of reality.

It doesn't really matter.  I have been kind of a ditz, outside the court room.  I've had people say to me that I should be a blond.  But when I'm in court, I am amazing.  :grin:

I knew, back when I first started doing this, how I came off to people, outside the court room.  I'm a ditz.  I lose things, forget things, I'm late, I lose my train of thought.  In court, I hyper-focus, and I'm on top of everything. 

Early on, I would lose clients, and I knew it was because I didn't appear like I knew everything.  But I also knew that eventually, word would get out, as it sloooooowly does in this business, and eventually people would hire me because of my reputation in the court room.  They would eventually overlook my ditzy qualities. 

I think one has to give the appearance of a certain amount of confidence, but I also think there are people out there who are looking for what's real, and not fantasy.  Nothing and no one is that perfect.  They learn, after some hard knocks.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2410282 - 03/09/04 09:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i heard a quote one time...maybe it was on the shroomery, but "pride is a crutch of the insecure." give that a thought and see whether or not these overconfident people are REALLY getting what they want. it seems to me that when a person is so proud of themselves they always leave some key points about themselves out, and i think those key points are extremely embarassing to them. no one is perfect, not even the people who say so. my best advice is to not bother thinking about it.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2410318 - 03/09/04 10:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It just all boils down to balance, imho.

Confidence: Good.

Overconfidence: Bad.

According to certain magazines, "Confidence = Sexy"

:wink:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2410366 - 03/09/04 10:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree, I don't find confidence attractive either. This is probably because I have been on the other end, disliked (assumed ignorant) because of my lack of confidence.

Now, I use confidence. Like you said it is required to lie if you want to get that job/girl. I find it sad that I have to. But i have faith that there are people like me out there. That understand more deeply. You are one, I just hope I can meet a girl someday that understands!

Maybe the 'revolution' could make this an aspect of thier teachings?


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OfflineTao
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2413631 - 03/10/04 05:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Like when the interviewer asks you what your biggest fault is, and youre supposed to come up with something ridiculous like 'i work too hard' or 'im a bit of a perfectionist'.

i have a lot of pride when it comes to philosophical disagreements and other arguments that i'm trying to work on at the moment. it makes it hard to work things out with people if you don't admit youre wrong. slowly but surely.

in other arenas its helpful knowing that there's always lots of people better at whatever you do.

its also interesting how americans often don't realize that our [over]confidences is a lot due to our individual culture. in england, modesty seems much more respected and prevalent. the whole arrogant=cool thing is very american i think.

thanks for writing that dr. j, very interesting read.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2428899 - 03/13/04 10:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

DoctorJ writes:

Something i have noticed is that people put way too much stock in confidence.

They put too much stock in other people who are confident of themselves, or too much stock in their own self-confidence?

In my mind, confidence almost always equals incompetence.

In your mind or in your experience? I personally will take experience over conjecture any day.

I tend to seek out the people that doubt themselves...

Why? Of what value are these people to you?

... and dont take anything for granted.

Not taking anything for granted is not equivalent to lacking confidence.

These people are the world's unsung heroes.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Though they are almost always closer to the truth...

How is someone unsure of anything closer to the truth? Facts are facts, whether they are recognized as such or not. Someone capable of recognizing fewer facts than most is not a superior being... quite the reverse.

they will never get the recognition they deserve, because people dont want the truth. they want fantasy.

Speak for yourself, paleface.

they want a happy ending where everyone gets married and rides off into the sunset to their white house with picket fences.

I think most would settle for just themselves getting married and riding off into the sunset.

Well, reality aint like that folks.

Reality is what it is. Those who are capable of more accurately grasping the nature of reality have an advantage at survival. That advantage is pissed away if one has no confidence in what one grasps.

pinky


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Confidence [Re: Phred]
    #2429085 - 03/13/04 11:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

They put too much stock in other people who are confident of themselves, or too much stock in their own self-confidence?





Both. but especially the former.

Quote:

In your mind or in your experience? I personally will take experience over conjecture any day




first in my experience, then in my mind

Quote:

Why? Of what value are these people to you?





I like their honesty
Quote:

Not taking anything for granted is not equivalent to lacking confidence.





No, but the two are related. Holding no postulates can definitely effect one's confidence. "Learned helplessness"

Quote:

These people are the world's unsung heroes.

How do you come to that conclusion?




because they are the people who admit their limitiations and behave humbly, while the rest of the world takes advantage of them and calls them fools for doing so.


Quote:

How is someone unsure of anything closer to the truth? Facts are facts, whether they are recognized as such or not. Someone capable of recognizing fewer facts than most is not a superior being... quite the reverse.





I'm not gonna get into this whole east vs west thing with you.

you could call me a relativist. you have disagreed with me on this in the past and I respect the fact that you see things differently. But for myself I choose a different path.

I just wish people would recognize, for their own benefit.

That slick politician that says he has all the easy answers is a liar! That salesman does not have your best interests at heart! Just because someone is willing to admit they have faults does not make them weak! Some of the most skilled, intelligent people I know are chronic self-doubters. And I see people with half the intelligence and skill getting jobs they shouldn't have because they know how to bullshit and hype themselves.

Quote:

Speak for yourself, paleface.





I dont see what the color of my skin has to do with anything.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Confidence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2429291 - 03/13/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

DoctorJ writes:

That slick politician that says he has all the easy answers is a liar!

Seems you are confusing confidence with bombast. The two are not equivalent.

That salesman does not have your best interests at heart!

Seems you are confusing confidence with fraud. The two are not equivalent. And, by the way, sometimes the salesman does have your best interests at heart.

Just because someone is willing to admit they have faults does not make them weak!

Nor does it make them admirable.

Some of the most skilled, intelligent people I know are chronic self-doubters.

"Some"? Of course.

And I see people with half the intelligence and skill getting jobs they shouldn't have because they know how to bullshit and hype themselves.

Seems you are confusing confidence with bullshit and hype. The two are not equivalent.

And just because they get a job doesn't mean they can keep it.

I dont see what the color of my skin has to do with anything.

It's the punchline from an old joke. Philosophical discussion need not be deadly serious.

pinky


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