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Offlinekoods
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: Eminence]
    #24071378 - 02/07/17 02:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Eminence said:
Most likely you're just delusional and looking for a way to rationalize violence towards people you don't agree with. You guys aren't some noble revolutionaries. Quit playing pretend and do something useful or you might fuck with the wrong people and regret it.



You guys just wanna crack skulls. You say you're non violent but I see a lot of posts from your side fantasizing about violent retaliation. Shroomism has a fetish for videos of protesters getting run over by cars.




Yeah, I'll admit I've had some violent fantasies towards these people. Hard not to if I imagine if my girlfriend were one of the women being beaten in the head with a flag pole while she's just wearing a hat supporting Trump, or a friend of mine being beaten with clubs by multiple people while he's already unconscious in the street. I don't feel guilty about it either, because I'm not violent unless someone assaults me or someone I care about. :shrug:

Also..about that North Dakota bill...what do you expect it to come to if protesters won't move? What would you do if you had to get to work or be fired because some idiots want to block you? What if you had a kid you needed to pick up? What if you or a passenger of yours was on the way to the ER? There's gotta be a limit to how many times you tell them to move or how long you have to wait for the cops before they just need to deal with the repercussions of standing in front of peoples' cars.



You don't run over people because they won't get out
Of your way. Jesus what kind of sick fuck are you?


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I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24071389 - 02/07/17 02:13 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

OP how do you feel about the historical pattern of leftist revolutionary groups being financed by banking families to transfer power from one group of elites to another? Like the Rotschilds with the french revolution, Jacob schiff with the russian revolution, George soros with the arab spring and euromaidan?

How do you define fascism?

Do you honestly think Milo is a fascist?


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: koods]
    #24071398 - 02/07/17 02:18 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Depends on the situation. In most cases, I would just get out of my car and force them out of the way if they didn't move after asking nicely a few times. Like I said though, if I was in an emergency or driving someone who was in an emergency..probably gonna just plow through them if they don't move out of the way. It's pretty simple..just don't try to block people from getting to where they need to go because first of all, that's pretty fuckin rude, and second, they have no idea where people are heading. Not a huge deal though anyway, most people don't actually get "run over" as much as just hang on to the front of the car until they're scared enough to let go. :shrug:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24071400 - 02/07/17 02:19 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
George soros with the arab spring and euromaidan?





dont forget all of the anti trump protests


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24071493 - 02/07/17 03:35 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
OP how do you feel about the historical pattern of leftist revolutionary groups being financed by banking families to transfer power from one group of elites to another? Like the Rotschilds with the french revolution, Jacob schiff with the russian revolution, George soros with the arab spring and euromaidan?

How do you define fascism?

Do you honestly think Milo is a fascist?



I am definitely aware of the pattern of failures looking back at past revolutions, although keep in mind the distinction between the pro-State revolutionary Left and Anarchists. There is not necessarily unity between these groups, nor consensus among anarchists in how to approach leftist unity. Historically, anarchist revolutionaries have been some of the first to fall to the resulting authoritarian regimes. The ideal anarchist revolution would be one without permanent power structures, with the aim of avoiding repeated mistakes.


Here's a working definition:
  • Fascism is an ultra-nationalist ideology that mobilizes around and glorifies a national or perceived racial identity, valuing this identity above all other interests (for example gender or class).
  • Fascism is marked by its hostility towards reason and human solidarity, by its dehumanization and scapegoating of marginalized or oppressed groups, by its use of violence or threats of violence to impose its views on others, and by its rejection of  supposedly “effeminate” or “soft” values in favor of “manliness.”
  • Anti-Semitism and racism are primary facets of National Socialism and most other varieties of fascism.
  • Fascism aims at a militarized society, and organizes along military or quasi-military lines, usually with an authoritarian structure revolving around a single, charismatic leader.
  • Fascist groups may have the facade of an efficient and dynamic organization, but in reality, power structures are arbitrary and ruthless.
  • Fascists use anti-elitist rhetoric to appeal to the “common man,” coupled with internal elitism and willingness to accept support from existing elites.
  • Fascism glorifies a mythologized past as justification for its present ideological stances, and as a basis for future organization of society.


As for Milo, if things were considered in a bubble, I would say he was nothing more than an edgy troll crawling around in the daylight. Guilty of the harassment and purveying hate, but not out-and-out fascism. However, things do not exist in a bubble--they must be taken in context. Without getting into discussion of whether the Trump presidency is a fascist regime or not, there is a current upsurge in fascist organizing worldwide. This has been obvious to those keeping tabs on their local fascist groups. With this environment in mind, Milo is seen as being on the forefront of fascist recruitment.

A good term for the folks like Milo is the alt-lite. They don't hold (at least openly) the extreme genocidal views that are a feature of the alt-right proper and most other forms of fascism, but they are an important aspect of what many consider to be the recruitment process. Fascism needs a public friendly face for which to make the initial outreach. You saw the same thing with the attempted fascist takeover of skinhead and punk scenes in the 80s and 90s. In that case, white power songs were understood to be connected to a rising fascist street presence, and were militantly resisted in response.

The connection between Milo's hate speech and the growing boldness of fascists on the streets is not missed. Antifa I know personally (myself included) would not physically assault someone solely for being a conservative or wearing a MAGA. A distinction is understood between the alt-lite and the alt-right; there would have to be more provocation to warrant someone deserving a punch to the face than solely being a fan of Milo. The goal when it comes to the alt-lite is to scare them out of their action, but not to permanently harm or kill them. As for the legitimately violent fascists, they exist only to serve as examples for what happens when you go full nazi.


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24071557 - 02/07/17 04:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I am definitely aware of the pattern of failures looking back at past revolutions, although keep in mind the distinction between the pro-State revolutionary Left and Anarchists. There is not necessarily unity between these groups, nor consensus among anarchists in how to approach leftist unity. Historically, anarchist revolutionaries have been some of the first to fall to the resulting authoritarian regimes. The ideal anarchist revolution would be one without permanent power structures, with the aim of avoiding repeated mistakes.





From what I understand, the communist groups are far more ruthless than you guys, so how do you plan to keep them subdued? And who will organise the military in an anarchist state to protect you from the rest of the world?

I just think that hierarchy and power structures are a fact of life. Get rid of one and another will soon replace it. Chances are high you will be in a worse state than before. I'm not aware of a single instance ever where a popular revolution has been fomented without external support from a third party with ulterior motives. 

I get what you're saying about Milo, even though I disagree, so thanks for explaining. You're far more reasonable than the antifa I've been watching on the livestreams.


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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24071590 - 02/07/17 05:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So you advocate violence towards those who you assume could turn violent in the future..so if I were to go by your logic..I would be right to knock out any of you guys on sight for wearing your masks because I have a feeling it's just a matter of time before you sucker punch some women or destroy peoples' property? Good to know. I'll keep that in mind then, thanks. :thumbup:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24071592 - 02/07/17 05:29 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

TheHulk69 said:
who are you talk shit on fascists when you are advocating restricting people's speech? Not as if I support fascism in any way, I would say I oppose any belief taken to extreme. People have a right to offend others. Grow up



Note, although I cannot speak for everyone who claims antifa, I do not attack people simply for having dissenting or ugly opinions. I oppose fascists because of what they do, not what they say. I'm not opposed to free speech; I'm opposed to the fact that they advance an agenda of hate and terror. I have no power to censor them; thanks to the “neutrality” of the capitalist market, they continue to publish hate literature in print and the internet. But I will not let them come into my community to build the power they need to enact their hatred.

The government and the police have never protected everyone’s free speech equally, and never will. It is in their self-interest to repress views and actions that challenge existing power inequalities. Anarchists don’t like being silenced by the state--but we don’t want the state to define and manage our freedom, either. I support self-defense and self-determination above all. What’s the purpose of free speech, if not to foster a world free from oppression? Fascists oppose this vision; thus I oppose fascism by any means necessary.

Fascists are only attempting to express their views “peacefully” in order to lay the groundwork for violent activity. Because fascists require a veneer of social legitimacy to be able to carry out their program, giving them a platform to speak opens the door to their being able to do physical harm to people. Public speech promoting ideologies of hate, whether or not you consider it violent on its own, always complements and correlates with violent actions.




Who are the fascists? Hillary didn't win.

I think you might be brainwashed.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24071602 - 02/07/17 05:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
  • Fascism is an ultra-nationalist ideology that mobilizes around and glorifies a national or perceived racial identity, valuing this identity above all other interests (for example gender or class).
  • Fascism is marked by its hostility towards reason and human solidarity, by its dehumanization and scapegoating of marginalized or oppressed groups, by its use of violence or threats of violence to impose its views on others,
  • racism are primary facets of National Socialism and most other varieties of fascism.
  • Fascism aims at a militarized society, and organizes along military or quasi-military lines
  • Fascist groups may have the facade of an efficient and dynamic organization, but in reality, power structures are arbitrary and ruthless.
  • Fascists use anti-elitist rhetoric to appeal to the “common man,” coupled with internal elitism and willingness to accept support from existing elites.
  • Fascists use slander and accusations of nazi and fascist to discredit their opponents and attempt to silence the truth





Wow, you just perfectly described the modern left.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: Shroomism]
    #24071802 - 02/07/17 09:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
  • Fascism is an ultra-nationalist ideology that mobilizes around and glorifies a national or perceived racial identity, valuing this identity above all other interests (for example gender or class).
  • Fascism is marked by its hostility towards reason and human solidarity, by its dehumanization and scapegoating of marginalized or oppressed groups, by its use of violence or threats of violence to impose its views on others,
  • racism are primary facets of National Socialism and most other varieties of fascism.
  • Fascism aims at a militarized society, and organizes along military or quasi-military lines
  • Fascist groups may have the facade of an efficient and dynamic organization, but in reality, power structures are arbitrary and ruthless.
  • Fascists use anti-elitist rhetoric to appeal to the “common man,” coupled with internal elitism and willingness to accept support from existing elites.
  • Fascists use slander and accusations of nazi and fascist to discredit their opponents and attempt to silence the truth





Wow, you just perfectly described the modern left.






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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24071825 - 02/07/17 09:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
You are going to sit here and say it isn't cowardice to go around destroying property wearing a mask?

I don't care how you rationalize it.  The only thing you are trying to do is avoid getting caught because you don't want to be held accountable for your behavior.



I support property destruction as a valid tactic, but I can't say I support every occasion of it. If you want my completely honest opinion, I am uncertain of how much value is gained from the property destruction that was committed by the black bloc at the inauguration. This type of property destruction is mostly symbolic. On the other hand, I fully support the property destruction that prevented Milo from speaking at Berkeley. That had the direct effect of shutting down his platform that night, and I believe the harm his speech would have caused to have been the greater ill.

I do not expect you to accept this rationalization, because to you the State has a monopoly on violence. Only the State is allowed to rationalize violence. Anarchists do not accept that premise, no one has the right to threaten our community with violence. We reject the right of the government and police--who have more in common with fascists than they do with us--to decide for us when fascists have crossed the line from merely expressing themselves into posing an immediate threat. We will not abdicate our freedom to judge when and how to defend ourselves.

You don't have to accept it, but understand it. You won't be shaming us out of acting.



What the fuck are you saying? Are you completely and utterly delusional? The Berkeley riots caused LESS harm than Milo's speech would've created??? What the fuck?

How about deciding not to attend the speech and countering Milo's free speech with their own free speech? Is that not a rational response?

Holy fuck, retarded ass entitled progressives are so removed from reality it's astounding. FUCK anyone that supports the Berkeley riots.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24071851 - 02/07/17 10:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
Quote:

I am definitely aware of the pattern of failures looking back at past revolutions, although keep in mind the distinction between the pro-State revolutionary Left and Anarchists. There is not necessarily unity between these groups, nor consensus among anarchists in how to approach leftist unity. Historically, anarchist revolutionaries have been some of the first to fall to the resulting authoritarian regimes. The ideal anarchist revolution would be one without permanent power structures, with the aim of avoiding repeated mistakes.




From what I understand, the communist groups are far more ruthless than you guys, so how do you plan to keep them subdued? And who will organise the military in an anarchist state to protect you from the rest of the world?

I just think that hierarchy and power structures are a fact of life. Get rid of one and another will soon replace it. Chances are high you will be in a worse state than before. I'm not aware of a single instance ever where a popular revolution has been fomented without external support from a third party with ulterior motives. 

I get what you're saying about Milo, even though I disagree, so thanks for explaining. You're far more reasonable than the antifa I've been watching on the livestreams.




Don't take shivas seriously.  He is claiming to be an anarchist in this thread and a communist in another thread.  he really has no idea what he believes other than "beating up college kids is cool


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: Webster10]
    #24071897 - 02/07/17 10:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
What the fuck are you saying? Are you completely and utterly delusional? The Berkeley riots caused LESS harm than Milo's speech would've created??? What the fuck?





it's true, words inspire people to do something positive that countermands the
actions of these fascists that shiva claims are anarchists, if milo can change
the views of just a few of these retarded brats then others may follow suit
and their whole movement falls apart. they rely on the children that rebel
against their parents


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #24074149 - 02/08/17 05:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Better a peaceful Anarchist than a slave and willing accomplice of a fascist regime.

If fascists rise to power the people must rise up and demote them.

Don't compromise with tyranny. Ever.

Don't respect something which has no respect.

Don't sympathize with something that has no sympathy.



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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24074222 - 02/08/17 08:08 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
It should be obvious that the portrayal of anarchists in the media is a gross distortion of the truth. Anarchists have traditionally been vilified by pro-state media; it's to be expected when you resist the systems of power/oppression directly, rather than just the opposing party. But that's all fine and dandy, because fortunately anarchists believe in direct action rather than depending on some centralized authority to solve their problems.

Which brings me to this post, recent events have brought anarchists into the public limelight once again, and along with it commonly raised misconceptions have made their appearance. Anarchists as violent thugs out to riot for the sake of rioting, empty of any theory or rhetoric. I'm not here to argue with people who have already set their hearts on the above, but if you are interested in hearing the anarchist perspective behind black masks, property destruction, antifascist action, and a plethora of other things (like maybe what we get up to when we're not smashing the state), then this is the thread for you!

Ask any questions, and I'll do my best to answer them  for you. Even if you don't agree with anarchist tactics, it won't hurt to understand them.







I don't really believe in anarchists. They are pretty much all masked agents of the state as proven at Montebello http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-undercover-at-montebello-protest-1.656171
If you are anarchist wearing a mask you serve the purposes of the state. You make it possible for the state to justify shutting down protests. All masks need to be ripped off, with force if necessary. Skinny punk rockers do not attack the police, the idea is silly. Most if not all masked anarchists are agent provocateurs.
I am in the middle here, capitalism can suck a dick, but smashing a Starbucks window is retarded. Those are franchise operations owned by small businessmen, often immigrants. It's silly to attack them. Same with the Apple store or Mcdonalds etc. These are all franchises. Also you can't have an I phone and I pad and call yourself an anarchist.
There needs to be order in society, if the law did not exist anarchy would involve a bunch of rape and pillage. I think we should shoot for the lowest level of government interference, just the basics. I have a problem with government over reaching and meddling, but the idea behind having laws is still valid.


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Invisiblerudebuoy

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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24074343 - 02/08/17 10:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

you're a very small minority



Bingo. Makes you wonder why there are half a dozen threads a week about them.



Anarchists are a minority, but they have had a disproportionately large impact on social movements. Birth control, slavery abolition, women's rights, civil rights movement, the antiwar movement, the 8 hour day, modern art all had a huge influence from anarchists. That disproportionate activism hasn't stopped.




Yep, violent masked protests is definitely what got the civil rights ball rolling. Mlk Jr. said so himself.


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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: rudebuoy]
    #24074375 - 02/08/17 10:35 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well, part of my intent behind this post was showcasing that anarchists consist of more than black bloc rioters, but I can only guide the discussion so much when it's an onslaught of people focusing on the recent media sensationalism.

As for what MLK may have thought:
Quote:

"First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

— Letter From a Birmingham Jail, 1963




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: Asante]
    #24074377 - 02/08/17 10:36 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Better a peaceful Anarchist





is that what we saw at berkley?

Quote:

If fascists rise to power the people must rise up and demote them.




unfortunately the laws havent been suspended so we cant 'demote' the fascists that loot, assault and riot


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Invisiblemt cleverest

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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #24074390 - 02/08/17 10:45 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm currently forming a group called the real antifa and we wear red masks and go to all the west coast milo and Shapiro talks and use preemptive violence on anyone wearing black masks. I know this may seem controversial to some of you but if anyone is interested in this group or has any questions concerning our philosophy, this is the place to ask.


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Re: Anarchists, Antifa, and the Black Bloc -- get behind the scary masks [Re: my3rdeye]
    #24074422 - 02/08/17 11:02 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

my3rdeye said:
I don't really believe in anarchists. They are pretty much all masked agents of the state as proven at Montebello



I won't deny that anarchist groups have been infiltrated in the past, nor that the anonymity provided by the black bloc tactic can potentially be a benefit to infiltrators, but don't get pulled into the narrative that all anarchists are either paid professionals or infiltrating LEO. However you feel about the recent anarchist protests, don't assume all anarchists fit the same mold. My own personal opinion is that property destruction that is purely symbolic is not an effective use for the black bloc tactic and is easily co-opted. That being said, I do believe the black bloc tactic has proved its value when it comes to less symbolic direct action; for example, in the defense of community squats.


Quote:

I am in the middle here, capitalism can suck a dick, but smashing a Starbucks window is retarded. Those are franchise operation owned by small businessmen, often immigrants. It's silly to attack them. Same with the Apple store or Mcdonalds etc. These are all franchises.



I agree, I prefer my action to be more than simply symbolic.


Quote:

Also you can't have an I phone and I pad and call yourself an anarchist.



Stupid argument, why would we not use all the tools available to us? Technology is not solely a product of capitalism, so it's not hypocritical to use technology as an anarchist. Although, it would be hypocritical to not be aware of the systems of exploitation that currently enable such things and do their best to limit them. For example, getting a used phone is understood more as preventing the piling up of e-waste, in the same way that buying clothing secondhand helps to avoid supporting sweatshop textile factories. A subset of anarchists would consider themselves transhumanists, meaning that they believe technology is what will allow humans to live in an anarchist society. Only an anarcho-primitivist would be hypocritical in using a smartphone.


Quote:

There needs to be order in society, if the law did not exist anarchy would involve a bunch of rape and pillage. I think we should shoot for the lowest level of government interference, just the basics. I have a problem with government over reaching and meddling, but the idea behind having laws is still valid.



I wholeheartedly agree with Thoreau here:

"I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe— "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."


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