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Offlinepixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: FuzzyColony]
    #25293107 - 06/26/18 01:48 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I don't really have a reasoning behind my amount of sub per box, other than using a max of 1 qt per box doesn't require much coir. It also leaves a good amount of room for growth of fruits before they hit the lid.

I have made some boxes with a larger amount of sub, but I didn't see any benefit really.. it just seemed like its better to just stretch the spawn out to additional boxes. But that's me


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: pixelpopper]
    #25293127 - 06/26/18 02:04 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

All my searching so far has suggested that 3-4 inches is optimal, and all the monoteks suggest that depth.  (Usually 4")

So I'm curious about the reasoning for less.


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OfflineFishLevelMidnight
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Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Sivarted]
    #25293172 - 06/26/18 02:31 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

It’s not a monotub :shrug:


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InvisibleR.I.P.Zappa
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Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 1,212
Loc: In Between Space and Time Flag
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: mushboy]
    #25293225 - 06/26/18 02:57 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I think the reasoning behind it may have something to do with how much water the coir and verm loose. less surface area probably means you need less depth. Also

In this thread somewhere I recall reading that shoe boxes loose field capacity at a much faster rate. Lost about a 1/2 a # of h2o and probably a small percent of that in nuits that converted to fruit growth from time of spawn.

Just mentle masterbation/hypothosis. I am Sure a TC has a tested answer. :cookiemonster:


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Registered: 09/20/13
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
    #25293257 - 06/26/18 03:13 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I don't pay any attention to actual measurements with sub levels, in terms of how high it is. I just put a few handfuls of coir in the box and 1 qt or less spawn, mix it up and good to go.

If you do a 1:1 ratio with 1 quart of spawn, it shouldn't mix up to be more than 2 inches high.. actually more like 1.5"


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Invisibleflyhighfunguy


Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: pixelpopper]
    #25293304 - 06/26/18 03:40 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone noticed that it is more difficult to maintain surface conditions with a thicker substrate in these shoeboxes?

For example, i have a shoebox with 1 quart spawn:1 quart sub that is filled up right to that first line in the shoebox. I havent misted it at all, and the surface looks perfect and is covered in beads. I also have another shoebox with 2 quarts spawn:2 quarts sub that is filled up to the ridge higher up on the box. This shoebox seems to have perfect conditions more towards the middle of the sub. The sides of the substrate seem to be drier than the middle and no beads are visible on the sides of the surfaces with thicker subs.

I havent taken the lid off of any of these tubs yet to check them, so im wondering if maybe its just difficult to see the beads due to all the condensation on the tub, or if shoeboxes just dry out quicker with a thicker sub. Could the sub being higher up towards the lid cause the air to dry it out quicker or something?


Edited by flyhighfunguy (06/26/18 03:45 PM)


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OfflineSivarted
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Registered: 08/22/15
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: flyhighfunguy]
    #25293315 - 06/26/18 03:45 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

The evaporation patterns I've noticed on shoeboxes is more towards the corners, so that might make some amount of sense, if the sub being closer causes air exchange to happen mostly at the corners, but having it deeper in means the exchange is more mixed.


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Registered: 09/20/13
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: flyhighfunguy]
    #25293320 - 06/26/18 03:47 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I think its just normal for the edges to dry up a bit faster than the middle, since its not surrounded on all sides by moist sub


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Sivarted]
    #25293321 - 06/26/18 03:48 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I'll definitely try 1:1 with a single quart in the box.  Anybody have amounts of coir, verm, and water to use for a quart of substrate off the top of their head to save me some searching?  :laugh:

*edit*

Durrr.  I could just hydrate the normal amounts and measure out a quart.

It's not like I'm starting just one at a time anyway.  :laugh:


Edited by Sivarted (06/26/18 03:51 PM)


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Offlinemullugh
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Sivarted]
    #25293326 - 06/26/18 03:52 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sivarted said:
I'll definitely try 1:1 with a single quart in the box.  Anybody have amounts of coir, verm, and water to use for a quart of substrate off the top of their head to save me some searching?  :laugh:




I just wing it. Seems to work for me. Anyone can do field capacity. Handful of verm, couple of handfuls of coir and couple of manure, sprinkle of gypsum, done


Edited by mullugh (06/26/18 03:53 PM)


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Invisibleflyhighfunguy


Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: pixelpopper]
    #25293330 - 06/26/18 03:53 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sivarted said:
The evaporation patterns I've noticed on shoeboxes is more towards the corners, so that might make some amount of sense, if the sub being closer causes air exchange to happen mostly at the corners, but having it deeper in means the exchange is more mixed.



Damn yea i wish i would have known that. If thats the case i prob would of made more tubs with less spawn/sub in each. What your saying definitely makes sense. I wonder if anyone has ever tested this and knows for sure?

To make one quart of spawn according to my usual cvg recipe it would be: 59 grams coir, 0.72 cups verm, 1.5 tablespoons gypsum, 1.64 cups water. Not sure if different brands will come out differently or not tho.
Quote:

pixelpopper said:
I think its just normal for the edges to dry up a bit faster than the middle, since its not surrounded on all sides by moist sub



Thats the thing tho. The box with only a 1:1 ratio has beads of water completely covering the surface. Theres no difference between the corners and the middle on the 1:1 box. The 2:2 boxes however seem to be slightly more dry towards the corners/sides.


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: flyhighfunguy]
    #25293334 - 06/26/18 03:57 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sivarted said:
I'll definitely try 1:1 with a single quart in the box.  Anybody have amounts of coir, verm, and water to use for a quart of substrate off the top of their head to save me some searching?  :laugh:

*edit*

Durrr.  I could just hydrate the normal amounts and measure out a quart.

It's not like I'm starting just one at a time anyway.  :laugh:




I used to mess with cutting up bricks of coir and measuring out stuff, but that's all a pain in tha ass and now I just make up a whole brick even if I don't need it. I've been leaving a bucket of prepped coir out for a week and just scooping out as needed for shoeboxes as the jars are ready. When the bucket is used up, throw in another brick and keep the party going


Quote:

flyhighfunguy said:
Thats the thing tho. The box with only a 1:1 ratio has beads of water completely covering the surface. Theres no difference between the corners and the middle on the 1:1 box. The 2:2 boxes however seem to be slightly more dry towards the corners/sides.




Maybe the heavier sub is pushing out on the tub walls just enough to make the lid even looser?


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: flyhighfunguy]
    #25293352 - 06/26/18 04:08 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

flyhighfunguy said:
Quote:

Sivarted said:
The evaporation patterns I've noticed on shoeboxes is more towards the corners, so that might make some amount of sense, if the sub being closer causes air exchange to happen mostly at the corners, but having it deeper in means the exchange is more mixed.



Damn yea i wish i would have known that. If thats the case i prob would of made more tubs with less spawn/sub in each. What your saying definitely makes sense. I wonder if anyone has ever tested this and knows for sure?





Yeah, that was a pure off-the-cuff guess based on my observation of the evaporation patterns and yours about where the sub seemed to dry out.

Definitely don't take it as gospel, or even actual knowledge.  It does make sense, but it's just a guess.  :laugh:


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: pixelpopper]
    #25293360 - 06/26/18 04:12 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
I used to mess with cutting up bricks of coir and measuring out stuff, but that's all a pain in tha ass and now I just make up a whole brick even if I don't need it. I've been leaving a bucket of prepped coir out for a week and just scooping out as needed for shoeboxes as the jars are ready. When the bucket is used up, throw in another brick and keep the party going





Yeah, I think that's what I'm actually going to do.  Soon as I actually have more grains to work with.  (I've been using exclusively oats, but am excited to try wheat berries.  The ones I found are pretty small, so noc points should be through the roof!)

I'm a *little* concerned about a 1:1 ratio making them a lot less set-and-forget though, due to lower cvg for holding moisture.

Being able to not attend to them for a couple days at a time periodically is pretty important to me.


Edited by Sivarted (06/26/18 04:15 PM)


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OfflineFuzzyColony
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Sivarted]
    #25293364 - 06/26/18 04:15 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I swear, I've done at least three things wrong with my first bulk grow--but life finds a way!


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OfflineEnkidu
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Registered: 07/09/16
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: FuzzyColony]
    #25293383 - 06/26/18 04:30 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I've had better luck with more sub and 2 quarts of spawn in a shoebox vs less spawn and sub and more shoebox's to deal with. That's just too much work for me.

I'll see how these perform.


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Invisibleflyhighfunguy


Registered: 09/13/17
Posts: 1,550
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Enkidu]
    #25293390 - 06/26/18 04:38 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
I've had better luck with more sub and 2 quarts of spawn in a shoebox vs less spawn and sub and more shoebox's to deal with. That's just too much work for me.

I'll see how these perform.



Have you ever noticed that the sides/corners dont bead up with moisture like the middle does? And yea im curious how thats gonna work out. If Sivarted's theory is right then being so close to the lid would probably cause the surface to dry out a lot more.

Also, ive noticed that my shoeboxes have a TON of condensation on their lids. There are droplets pretty much on every inch of the lid. Have you ever experienced this? And if so, do you wipe it off or just leave it be?


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: flyhighfunguy]
    #25293404 - 06/26/18 04:46 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

I get quite a bit of condensation on my lids.  I don't mess with it, but when I take the lids off to look at the sub surface, the water will drip down off the lid.

And I should have clarified, I usually do a bit more than 1:1... I don't know exactly what the ratio is, like I said, I grab about 3 or 4 handfuls of sub. I'm not sure why I was saying 1:1 for some reason that seemed right. But its probably closer to 2 parts sub to 1 part spawn. Like this it still sits about 1.5" after mixing. And I use the same amount of sub even if only using a pint of spawn instead of a quart, so that affects the ratio as well. I also do coir only, no CVG


Edited by pixelpopper (06/26/18 05:01 PM)


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Enkidu]
    #25293411 - 06/26/18 04:51 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
I've had better luck with more sub and 2 quarts of spawn in a shoebox vs less spawn and sub and more shoebox's to deal with. That's just too much work for me.




It can be as less work as you want it to be. You don't have to spawn all your jars at once. Spawn however much you want, and save the rest till you're ready. That's the beauty of low spawn to me- you can still achieve high yield while extending your supply of spawn out farther.


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Offlinerj1623
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Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: pixelpopper]
    #25293419 - 06/26/18 04:54 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Just started my first one yesterday. I will post pics when it’s done.


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