|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Spivkurl
Electroacoustic inventor



Registered: 08/26/17
Posts: 945
Loc: Minnesota, the next state...
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
Shrooms4life said: Here's the pesa clone shoe box this morning, I did like 6 hours of open air fruiting yesterday after work and then flipped the lid for overnight.
 It was spawned 2:2 with a pseudo casing at spawn. Tub was spawned on the 16th of last month.
I was thinking that the sub looked quite thin, though it's hard to tell from the top like that. By 2:2, you mean two quarts spawn and two quarts CVG? Looks like less of both.
Sidebar -Every time I see ratios like "2:2" - it just brings out the math geek in me, even though the rest of me says to keep quiet. Don't need another disorderly conduct citation! But really, if it can be divisible to the lowest common denominator, then it is equivalent. For example, 2:4 would be the same ratio as 1:2. The only difference is the thickness of the sub, but a ratio does not indicate what the numbers reference (quarts, pints, teaspoons, etc...) It would be a different story if the ratio were 2:5 or something like this, with a prime number involved. I know it's been brought up before by myself and others in this thread, and it's not meant as trolling or anything... just one of those things that could be more specific and accurate.
|
Sutty86
Brit



Registered: 12/18/17
Posts: 431
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Spivkurl]
#25044669 - 03/07/18 07:25 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Presume he means 2 jars of spawn and 2 jars of cvg Which ratio wise would be 1:1
-------------------- Looking for PENIS ENVY. Have spores to trade
|
Spivkurl
Electroacoustic inventor



Registered: 08/26/17
Posts: 945
Loc: Minnesota, the next state...
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Sutty86]
#25044690 - 03/07/18 07:49 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sutty86 said: Presume he means 2 jars of spawn and 2 jars of cvg Which ratio wise would be 1:1
Yes, that would be the assumption. My issue is that 2 jars is not specific. It could mean quarts, or it could mean half pints, which would be a very different situation... however 2:2 and 1:1 would still both apply, since they are mathematically identical.
For example, I predominately use 1 1/2 pint jars (24 oz) for my grains. I would not use "2:2" to describe using two of them, since it would not be specific at all. In this mush cult world, it would be assumed that I meant two quarts of spawn, when really it is only 1 1/2 quarts.
Saying something like "2 quarts of spawn in a 1:1 ratio" would be descriptive.
Either way, it's not important. Just my math brain trying to simplify things.
|
Shrooms4life
TrippyShaman



Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 1,375
Loc: Under the Viel
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Spivkurl]
#25044707 - 03/07/18 07:59 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
It was 2 quarts of clone spawn to 2 quarts of CVG with a pseudo casing at spawn. The sub depth is deeper then most shoe boxes I've done before. And I've seen great results from 1:1 so I don't think sub depth is the issue here.
Sub is just under the premade lines on the shoe box just like mushboy says to do in the OP.
Edited by Shrooms4life (03/07/18 08:01 AM)
|
Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
|
|
Quote:
Shrooms4life said:
You mean kinda like this? Cause it's the same clone different fc.
Well, yeah actually lol, those look great.
There's a guy in gourmet I ask a lot of questions. I just asked him one yesterday about cloning these wild edible mushrooms I'm after the first one I saw was huge and beautiful but the clone didn't take. I've seen and picked several more since them but they were all smaller. But since it's the same mushroom patch like a 50 foot circle in the trees im pretty sure the mycelium is the same organism u know.
So I asked him should I wait to clone a bigger one or what, all this work I want the fattest one I can get and he asked me a couple questions and turns out it had just rained and was mega humid when I picked that fatty. All the others were on days with no rain and the sun was out too.
So.. I captured the good genetics from these small ones I think. They just weren't big that day because the growing conditions weren't optimal. Same with you. Your tub does not at all look like these pics u show.
So I'd try again and optimize your fruiting conditions.
I've been reading cubes want a 3.5 inch substrate they need a ton of water to make all them fruits and it comes from susbstraye depth.
|
Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
|
|
But hopefully u saved your previous clone on agar?
Cloning a clone leads to senescence but it's also selective breeding a little bit, like we did with corn.
Corn used to be a tiny weed, we took the biggest kernels each year and kept them as seed. Planted them each year. Saved the biggest again. Over centuries no small corn remains Problem here is that tub looks horrible and I wouldn't carry on any of those genetics. Better to not "breed" your culture down a dark alley and keep going, better to go back a step and redo. If that makes sense
|
Shrooms4life
TrippyShaman



Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 1,375
Loc: Under the Viel
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
|
I get what your saying I just don't get how it looks so horrible? The shoebox even snapped close should allow plenty of fae.. I even open air fruit while I'm home, surface always has moisture beads..
Here is another tub going right next to it at the same time.. same conditions same clone.
|
Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
|
|
I'm sorry maybe it's not horrible, it's not sick and it will produce for sure.
Why is it so patchy compared to your smaller container grow? That's why I think it looks bad bc such a small percentage of substrate is fruiting
Now it may be that when u harvest some, you'll get more pins, maybe it'll fruit well but spread out over two weeks.
Its prob all the pictures but it seemed to me by how sparse it was fruiting either it doesn't have enough water, sub isn't thick enough, or possibly a small hitchhiker contam that is robbing a ton of energy and concentration.
Again, in my limited experience if I were u and I wanted a more even pinset and much more percentage of coverage, I would try that culture again and go over every detail, use a proven sub like CVG at a proven depth at a proven timeframe, no peeking until u set to fruit the whole 9.
If it does this again, no big deal you still did good to not get any contams and all that and now you know your methods were solid and it's just variance in the genes as far as when they start pinning.
A lot of variance right? Your Tupperware had a canopy and your tub is naked kinda...?
But either way, process of elimination. If all that happens then it's genetics and u know somewhere in there is genetic gold, so let it grow out and sector and sector until you get true isolates and fruit them against each other like discussed earlier.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
|
New rule!
Ratios never change. Equal parts to equal parts with only 2 things is ALWAYS 1:1. Or 2:2 or 10:10. Or 100:100 In terms of quarts used... Just type 2;2 meaning 2qts spawn to 2qts substrate.
Because saying you use 2:2, from a volume standpoint is too ambiguous. Because the RATIO of 2:2 is reduced to 1:1 So. If you used 1qt spawn and 3qts coco? That is a ratio of 1:3 but so is 3qts spawn and 9qts sub...in which case you'd say..
Hi, my ratio was 1:3 but I used 3;9 respectively.
|
Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
|
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: mushboy]
#25044759 - 03/07/18 08:27 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
And when those change your nutrition : water ratio can get jacked too. Too much spawn can cause oversupplementation issues because the spawn is a shit ton of calories its quart jars of whole grains it's a couple human meals worth of calories. The mush loves coir for the water, it's all about the water when you're growing something that's 90% water.
That's what I mean by using proven sub, by tilting it too far you might put more spawn and less coir which is horrible on both counts, you don't need any more nutrition, most tubs get thrown out welllllll before they're done fruiting so why the extra calories esp at the cost of your water? (Coir)
|
JHOVA
Post whore



Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
Shrooms4life said:
Quote:
JHOVA said: Shits dry and matted. Not much hope for that
Maybe the pic is just shit on here but it's had moisture beads on the surface just like the surface condition thread shows the entire grow.
Trust I'm not trying to make excuses here it's obvious to you guys and myself that I can do better but everytime I checked on this bitch it had plenty of moisture on the surface and sides of the container and my cvg prep was a little over feild cap so I didn't want to over saturate the tub.
But I appreciate the feedback nonetheless, what should I have done if you guys had this situation? Looked misted all the time but I guess is dry and matted?
Overmisting causes matting. If you gotta mist so much throw 3 in a mono and reduce misting to once every other day.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
|
Shrooms4life
TrippyShaman



Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 1,375
Loc: Under the Viel
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
Humble Newcomer said: I'm sorry maybe it's not horrible, it's not sick and it will produce for sure.
Why is it so patchy compared to your smaller container grow? That's why I think it looks bad bc such a small percentage of substrate is fruiting
Now it may be that when u harvest some, you'll get more pins, maybe it'll fruit well but spread out over two weeks.
Its prob all the pictures but it seemed to me by how sparse it was fruiting either it doesn't have enough water, sub isn't thick enough, or possibly a small hitchhiker contam that is robbing a ton of energy and concentration.
Again, in my limited experience if I were u and I wanted a more even pinset and much more percentage of coverage, I would try that culture again and go over every detail, use a proven sub like CVG at a proven depth at a proven timeframe, no peeking until u set to fruit the whole 9.
If it does this again, no big deal you still did good to not get any contams and all that and now you know your methods were solid and it's just variance in the genes as far as when they start pinning.
A lot of variance right? Your Tupperware had a canopy and your tub is naked kinda...?
But either way, process of elimination. If all that happens then it's genetics and u know somewhere in there is genetic gold, so let it grow out and sector and sector until you get true isolates and fruit them against each other like discussed earlier.
I did use cvg, my depth is deeper then other shoeboxes I've fruited with better results, and the variance is coming from the different fruiting chambers and amount of spawn. I've got a grow log in mush cult where I have pics taken daily from spawning these tubs and all the details of the grow.
Lots of people were saying it looked fantastic and now I'm hearing opposite end of the spectrum lol. Check out my log if you wish.
|
Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
|
|
Welcome to the shroomery, a lot of the stuff I read at first was wrong.
But the more you dig there is insane knowledge here.
Mush boy and jhova and all them have the experience I don't and I would listen to them.
I like the nerding out stuff and try to help when I can
I don't think you're supposed to have water droplets at all times on the surface. I agree with them that it appears "wrong" but I can't tell u why like they can.
I do know that perpetual standing water in a sub is a contaminate vector and should be avoided, that's how I know you're not a total noob bc your tub would be fucked due to that I would think. Plus u need evaporation off the surface of your sub to stimulate growth and standing water inhibits evaporation.
You're doing a lot right buddy.
And no matter what, to get the canopies that pastywhyte and some of these other post, you have to do the work of gettinf an isolate because it requires every mushroom to pin within the same day basically.
So knowing that, there's always room to improve, yao Ming?
|
Shrooms4life
TrippyShaman



Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 1,375
Loc: Under the Viel
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
|
Oh I totally feel ya man and I'm trying to improve by asking these questions and trying to figure out where the grow went wrong.
And a lot of the more well known growers have posted in my log including mushboy and jhova I'm pretty sure, but I'm not arguing that there is somthing wrong but rather just trying to figure that something out and eliminate that problem!
I went back to ms prints on agar last night in preparation. I did some LGT from madhatter420, some orissa India from blackfishx, some AA+, and burms.
I'll be testing new gt clones and pf albino cultures today.
And don't think I'm trying to argue or anything guys I know something is wrong I just didn't think it being dry was it what so ever. I get tons and tons of people that private message me and tell me they learned a shit ton by just reading through my logs and replies to other threads so I'm just trying to spread the knowledge and figure it out as I go. My 6th month of actually growing is coming up soon and I want canopies before a year!!
|
Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
|
|
That's badass buddy, in the end we are all just voices on your shoulder looking at photos from a foot away, you know your dudes, so if everything seems fine the fuck it, on this one or the next one that clusters nice and fat try to isolate them.
Store them one by one until they're all ready then do a big pf Tek grow, two cakes each for every isolate and keep notes. That's what is tempting me to grow actives, chasing that perfect canopy it's so sexy.
Toss all the isolates except one or two best ones, and make every grow perfect and identical.
That's really the only difference I think there is between healthy tubs, probably like yours, that produce sporadically and I clusters here and there vs the full on rainforest canopies that a samurai could harvest with one level slice of his katana..... Crazy how sexy some of those are.
|
FishLevelMidnight
Aquaman



Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 2,328
Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
|
|
Quote:
Shrooms4life said:
Quote:
Germs said: Those substrates look really matted/slightly bacterial. Almost as if it was left to colonize too long before fruiting. I’ve gotten shoeboxes in the past that get that look if they aren’t given enough air at 100% colonization, instead of pinning evenly the mycelium just kinda consolidates and then finally pops out pins in random places like in your pics.
Hmm idk man the spawn is def clean it was transfers 3x from clone and then put to oats and g2g like 3 times now into 25+ quart jars and I've had none contam so I don't think that's the issue here.
Maybe too low of fae at full colonization but I don't see how since it's a shoebox and was fruited at spawn and sat on the desk in the middle of my grow room so It should be getting plenty of fae! I still have the lid snapped on hoping to fill out the pinset but I guess I'll flip when I get home.
The 27qt could be matted possibly, the lid is tight fitting and it's unmodded! I'll try providing more fae in future grows.
If that is a clone and it has gone through 3 G2G, it is possible that it is weakened and is not fruiting well. I think stare said something about an APE or AA+ clone that got noticeably weak after 3 G2G
--------------------
 
 Trade List
|
Shrooms4life
TrippyShaman



Registered: 06/08/17
Posts: 1,375
Loc: Under the Viel
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
fishermansjc said:
Quote:
Shrooms4life said:
Quote:
Germs said: Those substrates look really matted/slightly bacterial. Almost as if it was left to colonize too long before fruiting. I’ve gotten shoeboxes in the past that get that look if they aren’t given enough air at 100% colonization, instead of pinning evenly the mycelium just kinda consolidates and then finally pops out pins in random places like in your pics.
Hmm idk man the spawn is def clean it was transfers 3x from clone and then put to oats and g2g like 3 times now into 25+ quart jars and I've had none contam so I don't think that's the issue here.
Maybe too low of fae at full colonization but I don't see how since it's a shoebox and was fruited at spawn and sat on the desk in the middle of my grow room so It should be getting plenty of fae! I still have the lid snapped on hoping to fill out the pinset but I guess I'll flip when I get home.
The 27qt could be matted possibly, the lid is tight fitting and it's unmodded! I'll try providing more fae in future grows.
If that is a clone and it has gone through 3 G2G, it is possible that it is weakened and is not fruiting well. I think stare said something about an APE or AA+ clone that got noticeably weak after 3 G2G
That's quite possible! I'll just go ahead back to ms and find new clones and try to isolate. This variety has hollow stems anyways which I don't want.
|
Zachsonpub
Friend



Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 299
Last seen: 8 months, 21 days
|
|


Have some pooling due to heavy condensation. There are some larger puddles than this as well. I could tilt it to one corner, crack the lid and pour it out. Do you guys normally leave it alone? I'm still trying to just leave the lids on the entire time, and I cheated a little.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: mushboy]
#25044893 - 03/07/18 09:51 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushboy said: New rule!
Ratios never change. Equal parts to equal parts with only 2 things is ALWAYS 1:1. Or 2:2 or 10:10. Or 100:100 In terms of quarts used... Just type 2;2 meaning 2qts spawn to 2qts substrate.
Because saying you use 2:2, from a volume standpoint is too ambiguous. Because the RATIO of 2:2 is reduced to 1:1 So. If you used 1qt spawn and 3qts coco? That is a ratio of 1:3 but so is 3qts spawn and 9qts sub...in which case you'd say..
Hi, my ratio was 1:3 but I used 3;9 respectively.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Making shoeboxes [Re: Mateja]
#25045172 - 03/07/18 10:11 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
or just post a pic.. i can tell what you got
|
|