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OfflineTipote
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
    #24040929 - 01/26/17 10:49 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

if you scaled down your undesirable list as I have, then we can have just the fascists. Muslim Nazi and European Nazi. The vast majority of Muslims and Europeans are not Nazis. Can we agree?

qman does the rise of Nazism bother you at all?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24040936 - 01/26/17 10:52 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Just ignore the silly fucks.




Why?




Ignore MG, he's a self admitted mentally ill person.




And you are Nazi enough to dehumanize someone with an illness.




Says the guy who flamed me because you disagreed with my position on an issue. :facepalm:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
    #24040955 - 01/26/17 11:02 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
if you scaled down your undesirable list as I have, then we can have just the fascists. Muslim Nazi and European Nazi. The vast majority of Muslims and Europeans are not Nazis. Can we agree?

qman does the rise of Nazism bother you at all?




Of course, but why have the right-far parties in the liberal EU gained so much momentum in such a short period of time? 

Why is nationalism on the rise in the US and EU?

Why do the Trump and Brexit results exist?

In my estimation, once the EU breaks down politically and economically, the real backlash will take place. Most are going to wish they stayed in their homelands.


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman] * 1
    #24041007 - 01/26/17 11:26 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

cause fear mongering and negativity gets peoples attention.


long time ago a hurricane was coming.  one news channel blew it up into a big hooplah, the other news channel said it wasnt going to be a big deal.  The media figured out the more negative a story is, the higher the ratings and attention it generates. 


people are sheep. plus too morons.  morons with a lot of idle and spare time are the fucking worst


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: sprinkles]
    #24041033 - 01/26/17 11:37 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
cause fear mongering and negativity gets peoples attention.





The fear mongering has always been there, the reason for the resurgence in nationalism and far-right parties is because things have changed on the ground.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman] * 1
    #24041042 - 01/26/17 11:41 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
fuck your strawmen. The average Muslim is less dangerous than the average neo nazi. Period.




Do you have anything to back that up, or does stating "Period" make that a fact?  Most people that identify as a Nazi probably did so in prison. :lol:




Yeah, I have statistics. What do you have?


Heres what you do:

Take the number of muslims in the world, divide by the number of muslim terrorists.

Take the number of neo nazis in the world, divide by the number of neo nazi terrorists.

I guarantee you the group with the higher ratio of terrorism is the neo nazis. The fact youre even trying to argue it is embarassing.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24041089 - 01/26/17 11:58 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
fuck your strawmen. The average Muslim is less dangerous than the average neo nazi. Period.




Do you have anything to back that up, or does stating "Period" make that a fact?  Most people that identify as a Nazi probably did so in prison. :lol:




Yeah, I have statistics. What do you have?


Heres what you do:

Take the number of muslims in the world, divide by the number of muslim terrorists.

Take the number of neo nazis in the world, divide by the number of neo nazi terrorists.

I guarantee you the group with the higher ratio of terrorism is the neo nazis. The fact youre even trying to argue it is embarassing.




You're most likely right, but with that being said, why is a terrorist act the only thing you consider dangerous?  Isn't sexual and physical assault dangerous?  Isn't theft and robbery dangerous?  Isn't no go zones dangerous?

There was some KKK/Nazi "gathering" reported a few towns over from where I live a few months ago, somebody posted it on Facebook, which led to the media.

It was basically 50 people drinking beer at a bon fire in the woods and driving their dirt bikes. I think 2 of them had those white sheets on, so I guess that made it official.

The local politicians flipped the fuck out, they wanted to press criminal charges despite the fact that nobody broke any laws, talk about pissing on civil liberties. :facepalm:

I think the police fined a few of them for violating some town policy with the dirt bikes or something. 

My point is that these were a bunch of teenagers and people in their twenties having a party with a few morons wearing some sheets, they were a bunch of harmless losers.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman]
    #24041102 - 01/26/17 12:02 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

You're most likely right




I accept your apology.


I do think its clear, though, that by sheer numbers, radical Islamists are a bigger threat. But if we're talking on averages alone (say we had to decide which group to surveil), its a much better use of time and money to surveil the entirety of neo nazis than the entirety of Muslims.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #24041154 - 01/26/17 12:25 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Tipote said:
Race hatred gets us nowhere except fighting, war and genocide and its what Nazis thrive off, I think violence against Nazis is ok (when they mobilise) because violence has been shown to be most effective in the past and the hatred they propagate only fuels more violence. Debating gives a sense of legitimacy to racial superiority as a political position which inherently encourages the violence against and genocide of "lesser" races.



I disagree. You go at them violently and you legitimize them way more than giving them a seat at the table. Let them run their mouths, then you run yours. If you cant win an argument with a nazi then punch yourself in the head.

Stop feeding into the cycle of idiocy. The moral high ground is an absolute. If you do anything to tarnish your image, you lose it.



i feel that there must be a better way then to attempt to stop the hate with violence.



I don't think instigating violence is justified.



I agree with all of the above responses.

Tip, were you being serious?  I haven't finished reading this thread yet, but I ran out of nested quotes for now...


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #24041287 - 01/26/17 01:28 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

i only think that way cuz of that damn einstein quote :P

"Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding." – Albert Einstein.


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #24041410 - 01/26/17 02:03 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Lets not pretend the average Muslim is a bigger sociololitical threat than the average neo nazi..


You always take your arguments to the extreme, makes it so ridiculous to entertain your positions.





People's who's lives are shaped by radical ideology are equally dangerous to the status quo, ild think by definition.



Ild definitely rather live in a Muslim neighborhood than a nazi one, and I'm kinda bigoted against Islam honestly.


Atleast there are peaceful Muslims, peaceful nazism is an oxymoron


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: elax420]
    #24041475 - 01/26/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

any extremism for the most part is cancer imo


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: SleepyE]
    #24041522 - 01/26/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Ya I can see that viewpoint but there is also the question of what defines "radicalism" was penicillin or the steam engine radical?

I'm a big believer in historical materialism this brands me as a radical, in USA


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman]
    #24041560 - 01/26/17 02:56 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

I didn't disagree with you post or position.  I over all disagree with you as an existing creature.  As well as others on this site, or the internet or in real life.

You are sick people.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Morel Guy] * 3
    #24041597 - 01/26/17 03:11 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I didn't disagree with you post or position.  I over all disagree with you as an existing creature.  As well as others on this site, or the internet or in real life.

You are sick people.




If you have any specifics of why you feel this way, please demonstrate it, otherwise you're just pissing in the wind.  :shrug:


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman]
    #24041607 - 01/26/17 03:16 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

You joined the dark side.  There is no light to your consciousness.  No love from you to any that don't follow you crooked path.  There are many like you and it's all the same silly shit.


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In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24042086 - 01/26/17 06:31 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Hehe, I just watched the neo-nazi getting punched video. Dude went down so fast. Immediately thought of a new nickname for him: "Glass Dick"


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: elax420]
    #24042152 - 01/26/17 06:56 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

elax420 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Lets not pretend the average Muslim is a bigger sociololitical threat than the average neo nazi..


You always take your arguments to the extreme, makes it so ridiculous to entertain your positions.





People's who's lives are shaped by radical ideology are equally dangerous to the status quo, ild think by definition.



Ild definitely rather live in a Muslim neighborhood than a nazi one, and I'm kinda bigoted against Islam honestly.


Atleast there are peaceful Muslims, peaceful nazism is an oxymoron




Exactly :thumbup:


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OfflineTipote
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24043048 - 01/27/17 06:46 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tip, were you being serious?  I haven't finished reading this thread yet, but I ran out of nested quotes for now...




Are you asking about the OP? More or less, yes. But a large part of it is to reflect upon it as I am working things out myself.

I mostly agree with all those above quoted posts youve put, I think Ezuma's full quote is closest to my position. I'm not talking about instigating violence, or using violence in the face of speech, but I feel there is a line at which violence can be used to defend against the manifestation of Nazism. What I'm asking is where that line is in people's opinions. What I have said is that when they start using violence in carrying out their beliefs, violence could be used against them.

Some in the debate are suggesting we should instigate violence from the onset but I dont agree with that. I shared the opinion of my friend on the 'merits' of debate, in the hope these questions are probed a bit more. I dont think Spencer should have been punched twice for just talking on the street but at the same time, how far do we legitimise things like being ok with black genocide as JUST a political position? I'm not making an argument about that aspect, i'm honestly just asking because I do not know.

One of the things that make me doubt this is how easily people twist it to be "violence against those you dont agree with" and therefore use that argument to inflict violence upon any group they don't like. Nazism isnt just an ideology that is just disagreed with, its an ideology that inherently promotes violence, race war and genocide, therefore I see it as a moral cause to defend against..

I dont pretend I have the answers and I am grateful for everyone's contributions.

I think its also awfully telling how the right wingers who are ok with violence against undesirables in the EU yet they sympathise with Nazis as they share what bothers them about "invasion"


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
    #24043058 - 01/27/17 06:53 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Punching nazis is always good.


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