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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman]
#24033838 - 01/23/17 05:29 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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qman said:
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SleepyE said: i despise richard spencer and his group of hitler loving pricks, although i feel that there must be a better way than to attempt to stop the hate with violence.
its a tricky situation. i have seen facebook posts about this and the comments are complicated. One person said you shouldn't use violence to get your point across and also condemned these nazi but others responded negatively towards this person saying the is no justification for defending anything that happens to this person and if you stand up for him you are part of the problem.
very tricky on finding the proper moral high ground in this situation.
Should violence also be used against Blacklivesmatter's when they spew racial hatred towards whites?
Why the main focus on white racial groups?
how you want to deal with race hate speech is up to individual countries, i'm talking about citizen action against nazis marching in jewish/muslim areas to intimidate.
In the US you can say a whole bunch of racist stuff that you can't say here in the UK. I'm not talking about violence against people for speech, but about action.
I know qman and others like to pretend that these centuries long struggles are over but people regardless of background will resist the denial of humanhood happening again.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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How did we get to Hillary theories from infowars?
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Ezuma] 1
#24033847 - 01/23/17 05:31 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Ezuma said: I don't think instigating violence is justified. If some organized and definable fascists were hypothetically going around lynching people or themselves being violent, by all means shoot em full of holes. The only good fascist is a dead fascist but it still just discredits opposition to start punching people in a previously non-violent discourse.
This is what I'm saying . I realise by putting the gif there it seems like i'm making the same argument for both scenarios but I was not.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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These arent theories mate, shes gonna get her ass hauled off to jail and its gonna be a huge public spectacle. They've been doing some seriously vile things behind closed doors man.
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myc10is
Super Freak


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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote] 1
#24033850 - 01/23/17 05:32 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Richard Spencer and his band of Merry Morons can eat shit (pardon my language), but what Nazi are you speaking of? The dude in the picture is most definitely not a Nazi. The Nazi party is the "Socialist Democratic Workers Party". That man is a capitalist, and a Republican (by policy advocacy). So, he certainly is not a Nazi. He is a Nationalist, and a racist.
If you are asking is it OK to attack people for holding beliefs that differ from your own the answer is no. Just because we find someone's position or beliefs offensive does not mean you should attack them unless they move from the realm of words. If you think you should, think of this: someone will find your position offensive. Should they attack you? Lol. The idea of actually attacking people for not holding your ideologies was a huge hallmark of the Nazi party, absolutely MORE of a definig characteristic of the Nazi Ideology than racism. That said, while the first amendment guarantees our freedom of speech it does not guarantee some child with poor emotional control won't lash out in anger. If you do though, you might get arrested. You would definitely be trying to limit someone's first amendment rights. Do you not enjoy saying what you want with out being assaulted?
It is vital that you allow ALL ideas be expressed. An adult with full grasp of his faculties should be able to hear someone who holds disgusting beliefs speak and not be roused to anger. While Spencer is a horrible person full of horrible ideas, he has a right to voice them. The problem is if you say it is ok to attack people over racist ideas, where does the line get drawn? It's a slippery slope.
Now a question for the OP. Do you think people should punch members of the New Black Panther Party if they mobilize? They openly advocate violence against whites, have a Nationalist Ideology, and believe their race to be superior to any other. For all intents and purposes they are the transposition of the Nazi party. The mentality, structure, Ideology, politics, and Belief in a racial Ubermensch is the same.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Pretty much everything you just said. Hillary was helping run kidnapping rings in Haiti to steal kids. Check out Martin Martelly, Laura Silsby, and the gang galil on google, if you wanna look into it. Shit we even got Kerry on tape saying he wanted to nurture ISIS and all the salafist's so they could use them to topple Al-Assad. Everything you're accusing Trump of doing (he isnt) is what the former administration was doing for years, and you didnt say a peep about it.
You've been living in a lie.
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The Ecstatic said: How did we get to Hillary theories from infowars? 
yeh.. what just happened?
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Bodhi of Ankou said: These arent theories mate, shes gonna get her ass hauled off to jail and its gonna be a huge public spectacle. They've been doing some seriously vile things behind closed doors man.
Any decade now.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman] 1
#24033867 - 01/23/17 05:35 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Do you know why we let those Muslim groups to march and advocate hate against people different from them? Because they have freedom of speech and ideas.
Violence isn't the solution, people must work within the criminal justice system.
Now if the criminal justice system fails to provide security for the people they might be violently attacking, then all bets are off.
Words are just words, you don't counter words with violence. You counter violence with the criminal justice system, if that system fails then all bets are off, but that's a long distance away from preemptive violent strikes against ideas and words.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote] 1
#24033871 - 01/23/17 05:37 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
#24033876 - 01/23/17 05:39 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Genuine African gangs and Salafist terrorist groups should be met with all kinds of resistance in the same way. You talk in general terms of anyone living south of the Western world, not about specific fascist groups.
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"racial superiority"
Do you hold the same feelings for Black or Asian groups that feel their race is "superior" in some way? Or is this violence against this type of mindset exclusive to just white groups?
Yes, i detest race superiority bullshit.

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How do you feel about religious groups that feel they're superior based on their belief system and culture? Should we violently target Muslims that think all non-Muslims are inferior? Because "the hatred they propagate only fuels more violence". 
no, I'm not talking about violence against those who 'feel superior', i'm talking about those who mobilise and provoke.
http://yournewswire.com/black-lives-matter-produced-by-george-soros/
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Algo
Backstrap Fever

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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
#24033877 - 01/23/17 05:39 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Little faggot can't even hit what a pathetic punch.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
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Bodhi of Ankou said: These arent theories mate, shes gonna get her ass hauled off to jail and its gonna be a huge public spectacle. They've been doing some seriously vile things behind closed doors man.
Any decade now.
Yup, shes just radiating confidence.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: myc10is]
#24033886 - 01/23/17 05:43 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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myc10is said: Richard Spencer and his band of Merry Morons can eat shit (pardon my language), but what Nazi are you speaking of? The dude in the picture is most definitely not a Nazi. The Nazi party is the "Socialist Democratic Workers Party". That man is a capitalist, and a Republican (by policy advocacy). So, he certainly is not a Nazi. He is a Nationalist, and a racist.
If you are asking is it OK to attack people for holding beliefs that differ from your own the answer is no. Just because we find someone's position or beliefs offensive does not mean you should attack them unless they move from the realm of words. If you think you should, think of this: someone will find your position offensive. Should they attack you? Lol. The idea of actually attacking people for not holding your ideologies was a huge hallmark of the Nazi party, absolutely MORE of a definig characteristic of the Nazi Ideology than racism. That said, while the first amendment guarantees our freedom of speech it does not guarantee some child with poor emotional control won't lash out in anger. If you do though, you might get arrested. You would definitely be trying to limit someone's first amendment rights. Do you not enjoy saying what you want with out being assaulted?
It is vital that you allow ALL ideas be expressed. An adult with full grasp of his faculties should be able to hear someone who holds disgusting beliefs speak and not be roused to anger. While Spencer is a horrible person full of horrible ideas, he has a right to voice them. The problem is if you say it is ok to attack people over racist ideas, where does the line get drawn? It's a slippery slope.
TO BE CLEAR, i haven't stated that I think Richard Spencer is a Nazi, I don't know enough about his beliefs to label him as such. I realise I made it unclear putting the gif there, it seemed relevant but I wasn't making the argument that he was a Nazi - it was just the event that has made people debate this and I was looking forward to other perspectives.
If you read what I have said since the OP I have made clearer that I am not talking about shutting down speech, or why would I be on here and speaking to people with many people whose views I might find vile? I'm talking about meeting Nazi violence with collective resistance violence.
Quote:
Now a question for the OP. Do you think people should punch members of the New Black Panther Party if they mobilize? They openly advocate violence against whites, have a Nationalist Ideology, and believe their race to be superior to any other. For all intents and purposes they are the transposition of the Nazi party. The mentality, structure, Ideology, politics, and Belief in a racial Ubermensch is the same.
I am unfamiliar with the New Black Panther Party so I can't be sure what youre saying about them is accurate.
I did not say that Richard Spencer talking on the street is mobilisation.
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If you are asking is it OK to attack people for holding beliefs that differ from your own the answer is no
I wasn't asking that because I know the answer is no.
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Edited by Tipote (01/23/17 05:45 PM)
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: How did we get to Hillary theories from infowars? 
#pizzagate
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qman
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
#24033909 - 01/23/17 05:51 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said:
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SleepyE said: i despise richard spencer and his group of hitler loving pricks, although i feel that there must be a better way than to attempt to stop the hate with violence.
its a tricky situation. i have seen facebook posts about this and the comments are complicated. One person said you shouldn't use violence to get your point across and also condemned these nazi but others responded negatively towards this person saying the is no justification for defending anything that happens to this person and if you stand up for him you are part of the problem.
very tricky on finding the proper moral high ground in this situation.
Should violence also be used against Blacklivesmatter's when they spew racial hatred towards whites?
Why the main focus on white racial groups?
how you want to deal with race hate speech is up to individual countries, i'm talking about citizen action against nazis marching in jewish/muslim areas to intimidate.
In the US you can say a whole bunch of racist stuff that you can't say here in the UK. I'm not talking about violence against people for speech, but about action.
I know qman and others like to pretend that these centuries long struggles are over but people regardless of background will resist the denial of humanhood happening again.
"citizen action against Nazis marching"
Again, the slant towards just white groups, why not include all racial groups?
"but about action"
Sure, protest their march in a non-violent fashion. You're obviously fixated just on white groups and ignore the other groups that do much worse today, your biased view of the world isn't helping your case.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman]
#24033919 - 01/23/17 05:54 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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qman said: Do you know why we let those Muslim groups to march and advocate hate against people different from them? Because they have freedom of speech and ideas.
I'm not speaking against freedom of speech and ideas. I'm talking about resisting violence. If muslims were amassing in jewish areas of london, threatening and committing acts violence then yes, those muslims would get violence coming their way. I'm not speaking against the right to protest.
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qman said: Violence isn't the solution, people must work within the criminal justice system.
Now if the criminal justice system fails to provide security for the people they might be violently attacking, then all bets are off.
Words are just words, you don't counter words with violence. You counter violence with the criminal justice system, if that system fails then all bets are off, but that's a long distance away from preemptive violent strikes against ideas and words.
I said quite clearly i'm not talking about preemptive strikes. I also said quite clearly that I'm not talking about meeting speech with violence, I'm talking about meeting violence with violence. Debating is all well and good but it only goes so far in halting the tide of Nazism/islamofascism.
the problem you have is that you cant discern between the vast majority of muslims and the small minority who are islamofascist salafists so you rationalise backlashes against all muslims. Its like me saying that if Nazis cause violence, we should fuck up all Europeans/Christians.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
#24033936 - 01/23/17 05:59 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Who says any of that stuff is even happening. Where are the camps the muslims are being rounded up and sent to? Wheres all the rabid islamphobia and street lynchings youre trying to panic about?
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: qman]
#24033939 - 01/23/17 05:59 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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qman said: "citizen action against Nazis marching"
Again, the slant towards just white groups, why not include all racial groups?
err I think i've included fascists whether red green blue brown, whatever. You are the one talking about muslims facing a backlash for existing, I would discern between groups and say its the islamofascists that deserve the backlash, not the vast majority of peaceful muslims.
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"but about action"
Sure, protest their march in a non-violent fashion. You're obviously fixated just on white groups and ignore the other groups that do much worse today, your biased view of the world isn't helping your case.
Yes, counter demonstrations and meet violence with violence. How am I obviously fixated on whites when i've spoken about fascists generally?
its you and viktor who have fixations, and viktors is about genitals.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Ezuma]
#24034008 - 01/23/17 06:19 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Who says any of that stuff is even happening. Where are the camps the muslims are being rounded up and sent to?
I wasn't making the claim that muslims are being rounded up and put in camps but technically many have been- even though its not been on fascist rationales but on refugee resettlement incompetance... thats kind of besides the point.
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Wheres all the rabid islamphobia and street lynchings youre trying to panic about?
Where have you been? there is rabid islamophobia where I am, I have had friends attacked in the street just for being muslim or "looking muslim". I have had hostility and threats of violence for defending the existance of muslim and questions of whether i'm really a secret muslim like obama
Are there street lynchings? no, not quite,but does that mean we can't discuss a potential future? The far right are on the rise, neo nazis are stronger than they have been for a long time, and muslims are the new jews in many ways. Refugee centres and mosques are under attack throughout Europe. Just because things are fine by your estimations now, doesn't mean things always will be. I hope things don't get worse but my point is that when Nazis mobilise and threaten the social fabric with violence then they will be met with violence by counter mobilisations.
I was making reference back to the Battle of Cable street which if you google you will understand better what I mean.
Ecstatic made a point that I've only heard one person say about the Cable street battles- that violence against them can inadvertently empower them. Its a very fair argument to make. It wasn't hugely relevant with the Black Shirts because they never had much traction in the long run in the UK.
I think so far Ezuma has said what i've failed to articulate clearly.
Quote:
Ezuma said: I don't think instigating violence is justified. If some organized and definable fascists were hypothetically going around lynching people or themselves being violent, by all means shoot em full of holes. The only good fascist is a dead fascist but it still just discredits opposition to start punching people in a previously non-violent discourse.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Is violence against Nazis ok? [Re: Tipote]
#24034031 - 01/23/17 06:26 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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The EU is being full on invaded however, and its being orchestrated by the ones at the top for political gain, believe it or not. When you have hordes of militants roaming through your streets a armed response is more then necessary.
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