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OfflineCattlecruiser
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cubes with b. caapi = ego death?
    #24033225 - 01/23/17 01:18 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I was reading an article about how psilocybin reduces activity in the brain's Default Mode Network, responsible for one's sense of self in the environment and self-narrative in time (http://ultraculture.org/blog/2014/06/30/magic-mushrooms-work-areas-brain-meditation/), while for the first time sipping on some b. caapi tea followed by an 8th of dried cubes.

At some point, I started believing that I was involuntarily communicating with everyone I knew telepathically. I felt like all my thoughts were being transmitted, that I could no longer keep my thoughts private, and that everyone was going to know that I did psilocybin mushrooms. A bit unnerving.

Could this be considered a loss of self I experienced, and is this what people have referred to as ego death?


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser]
    #24033318 - 01/23/17 01:51 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I think is a common symptom of mental ilness. Schizophrenic/schizoaffective and psychotic people often think people can hear their thoughts and things like that.

Im no expert but ive seen a few documentaries and read some posts of insane people on the internet. Two of them were from this site and one of those people claimed that before they took their medication they though everyone could hear their thoughts and they were in a really bad place. But again what do i know?

Im not saying you should quit psyches forever but dont take them for a while and see how the trip effected your sober life because in this case you dont just have to watch out for having a bad trip that fucks with you. Even in you feel fine you could be slipping away further every time and end up thinkin you are a messiah.

Its totally up to you. Based on that symptom i would recomend a break though. But psyches get crazy that is just the psychedelic experience so it coild be totally fine. The fact that you are making a thread about it though seems like it fucked with tou a bit. Did it?


Edited by BANANA.MAN (01/23/17 01:52 PM)


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OfflineCattlecruiser
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24033371 - 01/23/17 02:14 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Naw, I'll be okay. I'm quite experienced with mid-level psych experiences but I suppose that was a level 4-5 (https://www.shroomery.org/9067/What-do-the-different-trip-levels-Lvl-1-5-mean). I appreciate your insight. I can see how one could start thinking they are a messiah..scary. Hallucinations and delusions are indeed classic symptoms of Schizo but the problem is that it's such a broad classification that many types of drugs can induce something with that label. I was worried in the moment but don't think I'd get traumatized from this one instance because I believe that everything happening is grounded in some temporary physical change in the communication in my brain (using rationalization as a mental defense mechanism), so I'm mostly posting this thread out of curiosity wondering if others had similar experiences. Your advice is still quite applicable because frequent use of psychs can cause reinforcement of some unfavorable neuronal paths, i.e. HPPD as a form of PTSD.


Edited by Cattlecruiser (01/23/17 03:13 PM)


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OfflineMike4aco
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser] * 1
    #24034558 - 01/23/17 09:04 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I believe at a higher level humans are a collective conscious and that using psychedelics can have the potential of causing an individual to pierce that veil, and be able to exist at that metaconscious level as well as the normal human level


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Invisiblesoultripper
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Mike4aco]
    #24034644 - 01/23/17 09:42 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Mike4aco said:
I believe at a higher level humans are a collective conscious and that using psychedelics can have the potential of causing an individual to pierce that veil, and be able to exist at that metaconscious level as well as the normal human level



100% agree.
However,Banana Man is correct as far as supported by studies which show that people already predisposed to schizophrenia can have their condition triggered by psychedelics, even a mild one like marijuana.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: soultripper]
    #24035245 - 01/24/17 06:38 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

I think we are always like that even when we arwnt tripping. Psyches just disable our sense of self so we can realize that without thinking we are better or more right than everyone else.

Its like terence mckenna said. They arent your thoughts they are the thoughts. We all have access to the smae thoughts. But i dont think we can hear eachothers verbal thoughts we can just recognize the same patterns.


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OfflineDerPda
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24036273 - 01/24/17 02:57 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Well, the state of consciousness induced by psychedelics is often described as a model for psychosis due to the similar effects/thought patterns. No need to worry, as long as you are not convinced about your telepathic abilities in sober life. :wink:


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser]
    #24036991 - 01/24/17 07:02 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

At some point, I started believing that I was involuntarily communicating with everyone I knew telepathically. I felt like all my thoughts were being transmitted, that I could no longer keep my thoughts private, and that everyone was going to know that I did psilocybin mushrooms. A bit unnerving. Could this be considered a loss of self I experienced, and is this what people have referred to as ego death?




This sounds more like a paranoid delusion than a "loss of self" as such. Although BANANA.MAN is right that "thought broadcasting" is a typical symptom of schizophrenia, like DerPda says I'd only be concerned if you felt this way when sober - e.g if someone posted "I tripped a month ago and now I'm convinced that everyone can hear my thoughts", that would be more of a concern.

I think delusions are just part of the "weather" at high shroom doses; you get a inkling that your thoughts are starting to drift to some very strange places, bizarre revelations come thick and fast, and before you know it you're caught up in a web of insanity as strange dimensions open up inside the kaleidoscope of your mind...

:peak:

What you experienced might be part of the process I sometimes see described as "dissolving of ego boundaries"; part of the general dissociative slide towards a more complete "loss of self". As a trip strengthens I think it's common for the boundary to start to blur between what is "out there" and what is "inside your mind", in fact I think this is where a lot of the mindfuck comes from - you begin to find it difficult to distinguish between the mind and the world, and your position as a discrete entity within this framework becomes more and more tenuous.

A complete "loss of self" (at least in my some of my experiences) is something that comes after this mindfuck reaches a kind of 'cliff edge' where it feels as though you are facing oblivion - as though the trip is an external entity which is destroying your reality and leaving you no place in which to exist.

The "ego death" aspect of this is that it can feel as though you are dying within the trip, and indeed you do "drown" within the trip as you lose one part of your consciousness temporarily - the part that produces your sense of self and drives the "personal narrative" you mention (ego loss). The spiritual / revelatory aspect of this is that another type of consciousness remains active, a kind of vast oceanic presence that encompasses everything - the feeling of being the conscious universe itself, of being plugged directly into the infinite.

:shitsintense:

It's only as you "wake up" out of this state that you are able to relate it back to yourself; it feels like you have just had some kind of encounter with the ultimate reality. And because you have probably dosed rather high to get into this state, it's easy to believe that you have died and reached some kind of afterlife, or that you are in fact God, or you have made contact with an alien intelligence... that the reality that usually presents itself is not the underlying one. You can end up in another delusionary spiral as you attempt to make sense of everything, beginning with the certainty that you have uncovered the secrets of the universe and ending with the conclusion that you ate rather a large amount of hallucinogenic drugs..... or perhaps that you are the new psychedelic messiah!

:feelsshroomyman:

Another post of mine mentions the studies that talk about the "default mode network" e.t.c and tries to link it in with the mystical & delusional effects of shrooms (there's also a youtube talk on the studies embedded) - Re: Why does DMT cause grandiose perspective?

Regarding "ego death" trips, there is a post where I attempted to describe the trajectory of a strong trip the way I often experience them without getting too hung up on the (somewhat ineffable) details of 'ego death' itself.


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #24037055 - 01/24/17 07:26 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Yeah. he should see if it alters his sober life. It could be totally fine. Its just something to keep an eye on.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (01/24/17 07:27 PM)


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OfflineWu-tang
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24037356 - 01/24/17 09:43 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

I have tried mushrooms with an MAOI 3 times now and I really like it its probably my favorite combination. Two times I mixed them with these wild mushrooms I find called panaeolus cinctulus it was pretty cool I ate about 30 mushrooms with 3 grams of Syrian rue and I smoked a fuckton of pot. I saw rainbow fractural patterns and color got way more intense. I also saw a bit of face morphing and I saw Scooby Doo in my mirror while peaking.

One time I did 4.5 grams of mushrooms (cubensis) with 3 grams of rue and it was the most intense trip of my life I couldn't even walk and was out of body for most of it. I had to pee really bad was hallucinating so hard all I could do was curl up in a fetal position and hope I didn't piss myself. I eventually broke down and crawled my way to the bathroom. At one point I was seeing this alien room and in the middle was the earth and it was rotating around and around I thought I had died and the earth spinning was symbolism for reincarnation and the room was gods chambers. It was the strangest trip I have ever had but 4-ACO-DMT with rue was really strong to.

I did 40mg of 4-ACO-DMT with 3 grams of Syrian rue and I ate some edibles and rolled a fat joint. Time started slowing down really hard and when I went outside to smoke my joint everything started smelling like vanilla. Towards the 7th hour I was looking in my mirror then I started seeing this bright light and the light kept getting brighter and brighter till I broke down and started crying I was on the floor screaming/crying because it actually kind of hurt. Then the light kind of faded and I started seeing these weird ancient looking bricks but they where more of towers that where moving around this large landscape and it kind of felt similar to hand gliding through some kind of science fiction novel it kind of reminded me of the last mission in assassin's creed black flag (skip to 11 minutes)
Apparently I was zoned out on the ground twitching and mumbling like I was having a seizure it freaked my little bro out but I was actually fine.

Ive also tried mescaline with a MAOI and DMT with a MAOI I love MAOIs.  :like:


--------------------
400 years ago-The earth is the center of the universe and anyone who says outherwise is a heretic. How dare you claim that the earth is not the center of the universe? Your looking glass your moons around Jupiter and your navigation tables prove nothing. Your heresy is an affront to the church and to God who made the earth the center of the universe.
Now-All drugs that can expand consciousness are without medical or social justification and anyone who uses them is a criminal. How dare you claim that an understanding of God is to be found in a white powder? This talk of communication with the inner self, the finding of one's way into the hidden reaches of the unconscious, is New Age nonsense and simply an excuse to use dangerous drugs.:callingbullshit:


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OfflineCattlecruiser
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Wu-tang]
    #24041643 - 01/26/17 03:32 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Not to worry guys, reflecting back on the experience while sober keeps my mind from slipping, and some say helps prevent HPPD as well.

Quote:

Aldebaran said:
What you experienced might be part of the process I sometimes see described as "dissolving of ego boundaries"; part of the general dissociative slide towards a more complete "loss of self". As a trip strengthens I think it's common for the boundary to start to blur between what is "out there" and what is "inside your mind", in fact I think this is where a lot of the mindfuck comes from - you begin to find it difficult to distinguish between the mind and the world, and your position as a discrete entity within this framework becomes more and more tenuous.





From your description I can see that I have still some way go until I experience true ego death, and it seems terrifying, but as before, only in the moment. I did indeed partially lose some of the boundary between what's out there and what's inside, but not completely.

During my first mushroom trip ever, I had a different delusion, which was that I thought the melting hallucinations I was seeing meant I was seeing things grow old and decay. I interpreted this as seeing the whole world through eons at once and through this, I was acquiring some profound knowledge about the universe. Very spiritual, but likely just another deficit in the brain's DMN, and not yet ego death as you described either. However, I now feel prepared for what's to come.


Quote:

Wu-tang said:
One time I did 4.5 grams of mushrooms (cubensis) with 3 grams of rue and it was the most intense trip of my life I couldn't even walk and was out of body for most of it. I had to pee really bad was hallucinating so hard all I could do was curl up in a fetal position and hope I didn't piss myself. I eventually broke down and crawled my way to the bathroom. At one point I was seeing this alien room and in the middle was the earth and it was rotating around and around I thought I had died and the earth spinning was symbolism for reincarnation and the room was gods chambers. It was the strangest trip I have ever had but 4-ACO-DMT with rue was really strong to.





Your experience might sound like ego death! Perhaps thinking we died is a loss of the self-narrative. I'm still exploring ways to use MAOI combinations. I know not to combine them with serotonin elevators like anti-depressants and MDMA. I have done MAOI only as an Aya experience because I thought psilocin from mushrooms would be chemically analogous to DMT from Acacia Confusa. I haven't taken MAOI while smoking DMT, but if you or anyone else have, how was it to Aya comparatively? From experience, could you compare 4-aco-DMT with Cubes dosage-wise? This will be my next psychedelic tryptamine experiment with an MAOI.

You say you've done mescaline+MAOI as well, and I have an analogue I could try, but I'm worried about Serotonin Syndrome when combining MAOI's with any phenethylamine, even the psychedelic ones. How was it? I'm also worried about LSD+MAOI as well as it has a phenethylamine-ish portion. Whether they're serotonin-elevators or just serotonin-receptor agonists might shed some light.


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OfflineWu-tang
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser]
    #24042053 - 01/26/17 06:16 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Cattlecruiser said:

Quote:

Wu-tang said:
One time I did 4.5 grams of mushrooms (cubensis) with 3 grams of rue and it was the most intense trip of my life I couldn't even walk and was out of body for most of it. I had to pee really bad was hallucinating so hard all I could do was curl up in a fetal position and hope I didn't piss myself. I eventually broke down and crawled my way to the bathroom. At one point I was seeing this alien room and in the middle was the earth and it was rotating around and around I thought I had died and the earth spinning was symbolism for reincarnation and the room was gods chambers. It was the strangest trip I have ever had but 4-ACO-DMT with rue was really strong to.





Your experience might sound like ego death! Perhaps thinking we died is a loss of the self-narrative. I'm still exploring ways to use MAOI combinations. I know not to combine them with serotonin elevators like anti-depressants and MDMA. I have done MAOI only as an Aya experience because I thought psilocin from mushrooms would be chemically analogous to DMT from Acacia Confusa. I haven't taken MAOI while smoking DMT, but if you or anyone else have, how was it to Aya comparatively? From experience, could you compare 4-aco-DMT with Cubes dosage-wise? This will be my next psychedelic tryptamine experiment with an MAOI.

You say you've done mescaline+MAOI as well, and I have an analogue I could try, but I'm worried about Serotonin Syndrome when combining MAOI's with any phenethylamine, even the psychedelic ones. How was it? I'm also worried about LSD+MAOI as well as it has a phenethylamine-ish portion. Whether they're serotonin-elevators or just serotonin-receptor agonists might shed some light.



I have done a MAOI before smoking DMT about 4 times now and I prefer it over smoked DMT alone. I eat the MAOI and 20 minutes later smoke DMT it gets pretty intense but I have still yet to experience the things Terence Mckenna was talking about (machine elves and full submersion) however its a hell of a lot stronger than LSD. I find it to be very shocking to the system and I usually start seeing shadow people but I have never fully broken through one time I saw these Mayan looking figures they looked a lot like this but they where moving all around my room and it started to sort of breath and shake the walls still not what Terence McKenna was talking about though. Another time I did half breakthrough it put me in this state where I saw all these flashing light beams that where dancing in color and everything started feeling like it was drawn by a comic book artist sort of a surreal feeling it was my favorite DMT trip. I have done my own version of ayahuasca 3 times now and only one time did I experience anything very cool. On my second trip I saw my room disappear and it was replaced with what looked similar to The Serengeti (a part of Africa) and I was no longer a human being. I thought I was a spotted leopard running through the grasslands. At one point I found this ancient looking box made of hieroglyphic things then I saw this earth being (mother nature) and I started crying she seemed sad and it made me cry. DMT and oral DMT are very different I personally prefer smoked DMT for its rapid fast passed effects and a much less serous feeling aya always feels really heavy its good to do maybe once a year but you have to be mentally prepared.
However mushrooms was a lot stronger and it lasts a solid 12 hours the 4.5 grams I did would=13.5 grams without a MAOI and that would only last 6. Part of the problem with them is it gives you time distortion like crazy I hate that eternal im stuck feeling but coming up on it was fun I remember listing to the doors break on through at around 2 hours into the trip. By the 5th hour your unable to see/walk I recommend a bucket because I gulped down the Syrian rue with a fuckton of pink lemonade and it makes you piss but the problem was figuring out how to use your body all I could do was shake my hips struggling not to piss myself it kinda fucked me up and made the trip turn a little dark.   
Mescaline with a MAOI was amazing my only problem is that's the only time I have tried mescaline so im not sure what its like without a MAOI. However I got 28 grams of dry Trichocereus pachanoi chips and ate the MAOI 20 minutes beforehand and I just took the cactus chunks and chewed them up with some lemonade in my mouth (the cactus was very bitter but with a swig of lemonade siting on my tong it was chewable). Then my friend called me up so I could buy him some cigarettes (he was not yet 18) so I got in his car and headed to the gas station. Once we got to the gas station I began to feel the effects taking hold I bought him his cigs and left he drove me home and gave me a couple cigs.  Then I started feeling weird it was only 1 hour after eating it but I swear I was feeling a little buzz anyway I got my skateboard and decided I wanted to go down hill carving so I started skating as fast as I could. Being on my skate felt extra exhilarating and I eventually got tired and stopped by the woods it was now 2 hours after eating it. I walked into the woods and before I knew it I was having auditory hallucinations I thought I heard this evil laughter like some kind of old lady was laughing at me coming from all directions off the woods. I started smelling weed and I ran after the smell I was out of cash and wanted some weed very badly I claimed up a tree looking for it.  I did not find any weed and when I came out of the tree I threw up several times and I kept looking at my vomit it seemed to be like there was a colony of ants eating it (I was tripping pretty hard) I found my skateboard and left. I came back home and was feeling similar to coming up on LSD that mind fried sort of feeling it was much more pleasurable than LSD though. When I took a shower I saw a cat in mirror he kept playing with this ball of yarn it kept making me laugh it was very cool.

Also you said LSD and a MAOI but this would most likely have little to no effect. It would be safe because LSD is a tryptamine but you RC phenethylamine would probably not be safe even mescaline and a MAOI can be dangerous but I did an incredibly low dose. 4-ACO-DMT is a fun but my next trip im going to try 500 ug of LSD with 1 gram of mescaline extract I found out how to get it to maximum purity (ATB with xylene de fat then xylene pulls to tartaric acid and a active charcoal boil). I might get ALD-52 though but it would be my first time trying ALD-52 and with a gram of 99% mescaline crystals it might be to crazy because I really want to do 500ug with a gram. You might like DPT with an MAOI or some 5-MeO-MiPT with an MAOI both are not scheduled chemicals.  :goodluck:


--------------------
400 years ago-The earth is the center of the universe and anyone who says outherwise is a heretic. How dare you claim that the earth is not the center of the universe? Your looking glass your moons around Jupiter and your navigation tables prove nothing. Your heresy is an affront to the church and to God who made the earth the center of the universe.
Now-All drugs that can expand consciousness are without medical or social justification and anyone who uses them is a criminal. How dare you claim that an understanding of God is to be found in a white powder? This talk of communication with the inner self, the finding of one's way into the hidden reaches of the unconscious, is New Age nonsense and simply an excuse to use dangerous drugs.:callingbullshit:


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OfflineCattlecruiser
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Wu-tang]
    #24061259 - 02/02/17 08:49 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Wu-tang said:
It would be safe because LSD is a tryptamine but you RC phenethylamine would probably not be safe even mescaline and a MAOI can be dangerous but I did an incredibly low dose.




LSD has structural similarities to both tryptamines and phenethylamines so I worry, however after DMT and shrooms, LSD has the most information out there about psych trip reports with MAOI. The general consensus seems to be that it is indeed safe as long as one is mentally prepared. I agree about being more wary with RC's in general, you never know how they'll affect other 5-HT receptors.. except with 1P-LSD which I'm fairly confident will give the same profile as LSD. It would be dangerous to ingest any psychedlic amphetamine+MAOI and I trust the consistency of tabs from RC sites more than tabs from the hippies in the park, so I think my next experiment will be with 1P-LSD+MAOI. Might report back. Thanks for your input.


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OfflineMike4aco
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser]
    #24061534 - 02/02/17 10:55 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I took some ayahuasca (b Caapi) and about an hour later took 1.8 mg of lsd. The effects of the lsd on the ayahuasca hit me almost immediately. Within 5 minutes I was starting to feel it and at 15 minutes it was already intense as a 1.5 mg or so peak and still rising. At about 45 minutes the effects matched that or surpassed that of a 4.4 mg trip I had two months earlier. And still feeling like I was rising and getting higher. I had extreme mental clarity a had mile a minute thoughts. I was seeing so many visuals yet I was also somehow more in control of the visuals (at several points in time I looked at different pictures and created visuals out of what I saw, most vividly I remember creating 9 jellyfishes and making them do tricks above my head before they swam away. I changed the colors of the walls, created fog clouds, changed the language of the random flashing words I saw, changed my perspective to that of the fridge, a cup, my friend, the TV, that of the actors in the TV (which were acting in their own 3d universe) to name a few. The peak lasted a long time. A long long time, id say around 4 to 5 hours at least. The trip gradually dissipated over the next 20 hours!! I had already been tripping complete balls for around 6 hours and then had a roughly 20 hour comedown!  The strongest visuals ive had on anything except dmt. Id say it easily compared with a few of my deep ayahuasca trips, and definitely outpaced it by 4x!


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OfflineCattlecruiser
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Mike4aco]
    #24061816 - 02/03/17 02:28 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Wow what a dose! I think I'll start with 200mcg as 3-4x potentiation should get me somewhere decent but not too much.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser]
    #24062397 - 02/03/17 10:37 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Meh, sounds more like just feelings of telepathy and unity not really losing your identity though.


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OfflineCattlecruiser
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #24063355 - 02/03/17 06:14 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Ok 200mcg 1P + caapi was pretty intense but there was way too much clarity as is typical with LSD vs. DMT/Psilocin experiences. Identity and boundaries seemed intact. Had some sweating and chills for a moment and became worried of Serotonin Syndrome but was able to shed a layer of clothing and thermo-regulate quickly so I thought maybe it was all in my head and was fine for the rest of the experience.


Later on, threw in some D-Ket (another combo-first) and got transported to another reality, but it was still me. After that, for the next few hours, thinking that I probably should've done some newbie research on nausea management first.  :scat: Don't think I want an experience that requires me to be immobile to tolerate.


Edited by Cattlecruiser (02/03/17 06:19 PM)


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Cattlecruiser]
    #24063413 - 02/03/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cattlecruiser said:
Don't think I want an experience that requires me to be immobile to tolerate.




There are ways around that, take a bit of a lower Harmala/Caapi/Rue dosage, or take it somewhat regularly to build up the reverse tolerance which does away with the Harmala-related nausea, vomiting, body load, motor function impairment, and allows you to handle stronger dosages more easily with less discomfort. Also imo there's potential in trying out different plants or essential oils with the Rue, and Rue and Psychedelic combos to alter or enhance things favorably, or to reduce possible discomfort or undesirable effects.


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Re: cubes with b. caapi = ego death? [Re: Sabnock]
    #24097861 - 02/17/17 01:07 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

At least with those drinks, throw up once and you're good for the rest of the time. Ketamine though, do too much and the nausea will ruin the rest of the time.


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