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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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[UPDATED 1/27/2017] Multiple Monotubs fruiting ... PICS, FIRST FLUSH, TRICH?!??
#24032422 - 01/23/17 02:51 AM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Hello,
I had a grow log going but needed to take it down (for now) due to opsec concerns...I plan to upload it when complete (just taking pics and saving them for now til project completed).
Long story short, I have enough WBS jars of spawn for ~20 tubs (not counting G2G), 10 of which I have made (9 66qt. and 1 mini-mono 27qt). Of the 9 full size monos, 4 are in fruiting. All 4 tubs were 100% colonized in approx. 7 days. Followed Franks 12 steps to shrooms, to the "T" for the first tub. After 100% colonized, I cased, put back into colonization, at 20% colonization of casing layer I patched and introduced fruiting conditions, very tight poly down low, very loose up high. The other 3 tubs I just put straight into fruiting conditions at 100% colonization, no casing layer. For each tub I used 5 WBS quart jars of spawn, 1 brick coir, and 2 quarts verm plus 5 quarts water. Today, the 3 uncased tubs all look like this:

Thats one of the uncased tubs, but all 3 look like that. Pins exploding everywhere (there are alot more than you can see in the pic, the cellphone cam flash reflects off the water droplets and blinds some out...but you get the idea). This is after 8 days in fruiting conditions. Pins became visible around 36-48hrs ago on all 3 of the uncased tubs. There was alot of condensation of the surfaces, so I loosened the bottom poly a bit on all 3 uncased tubs, and within 24hrs of doing that they were all pinning like mad.
This is what they look like stacked up:

As you can see, it looks like FAE is good, as the rings around the poly would indicate, correct? A fan has been running in the room, around 3 feet away from the tubs sitting a few feet off the ground, pointed at the wall next to them so that no direct air hits them. I have been assuming that FAE is sufficient, as the rings around the holes indicate...You can see in the pic above the top holes have rings around them, as do the bottom ones:

So I'm pretty happy about that...strains in the 3 uncased tubs btw are mazatapec, cambodian, and PES Amazonian.
It's the cased tub (Albino A+) which has me a bit concerned...it showed pins earlier than the other 3, by about a day-2 days...but it now looks like this (around 4 days after first pin seen):

Nowhere near as many pins, a few keep coming up every 12hrs or so here or there but compared to the 3 uncased tubs, pretty shitty (unless there is alot more to come..?). I'm wondering if the casing layer means the pinset comes in slower...I read in franks tek that the casing layer provides a more even pinset, but this looks to contradict that for some reason. Also, as you can see in the close up pics below, it looks like a few of these are aborting:



Note the blackening heads on some of them...also the fuzzy feet on many of them:


I loosened the bottom poly on this tub a few days ago also to try to remedy the fuzzy feet but no luck. Loosened it a bit more a few minutes ago, but does anyone have any suggestions on this one? This is my first time doing grain/bulk/monotubs, and I have no experience to draw on with monos to know if this is something to be worried about or not. It's odd that the uncased ones seem to be doing so much better than the cased one (I just cased a 5th tub the other day, waiting for 20% colonization to fruit)...I'm wondering if this is the case (no pun intended) if I should just not case the rest of them?
Thanks for all who respond, I will edit my grow log and post it in full when grow is complete, but for now just needed some input on this specific question.
Edited by shade12435 (01/27/17 05:08 AM)
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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Multiple Monotubs fruiting ... pin porn, question *DELETED* [Re: shade12435]
#24034916 - 01/24/17 12:35 AM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Post deleted by shade12435Reason for deletion: updated
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acidninja
student



Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 1,693
Loc: the system
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Re: Multiple Monotubs fruiting ... pin porn, question [Re: shade12435]
#24034968 - 01/24/17 01:13 AM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Noice
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- DMT - Liberty Cap Gallery
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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: acidninja]
#24035010 - 01/24/17 02:07 AM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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I really don't see how to increase FAE anymore, the top poly is so thin its about to fall out and the bottom I have decreased by at least 50-60% as well...Bigger fan maybe? Right now I have a 12" diameter fan on high sitting about 3 feet from the closest end (to the camera)pointed at the wall next to the tubs (no direct air from fan blowing on tubs). I have at least a foot space around them from the back walls (see pic of tubs stacked above)...Some of my pins are growing sideways, lots of condensation on the sub surface, and some of the stems of the pins are showing that dark colouration indicitive of too much humidity (bc not enough FAE)... and they have plenty of light (two 2' 6500k floro tubes lighting entire room, then 4 shop lights (the kind you can clamp on to things) with 6500k CFLs, 2 mounted up high pointing directly down on the stacks, one about halfway up the stack and one near the bottom pointed directly at them, 12/12 schedule.
tl;dr
My tubs need more FAE and the regular fan on the wall nearby/loose poly isnt working for some reason. Suggestions?
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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: shade12435]
#24035057 - 01/24/17 03:03 AM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Pics or it's all just text...
 
Fan (and light) setup (as described above)
  
These 3 pics are of the Albino A+ tub (cased). Not much of a pinset (unless these are just early birds...they're still coming up). There are some aborts and the ones that are growing are small and fuzzy.

This is how loose my top poly is on all 4 fruiting tubs.
   
Tub 2, uncased, pinning. Small pinset but it was the last to pin so I assume more on the way...again, signs of too much humidity present.
   
Tub 3, nice pinset, same story. Note the sideways growing ones.
   
Tub 4, the best pinset of the all I think (so far), but still some growing weird. What can be done?
Also, tub 4 has some weird things going on...the first pic below is of (what I believe) is just thick overlayed mycelium...its looked like that for days, hasn't changed, and nothing is growing there (its in the corner).
Second pic below is where some water had begun to pool on the mycelium surface in the early days of fruiting, I soaked it up with a paper towel and was accidentally a bit rough...it damaged the mycelium a little and turned yellow in that spot...hasn't spread or changed for days tho, so I think I'm OK?


PLEASE feel free to comment/suggest anything you think might help. I hope this doesn't screw up my flushes, but I have a feeling it's going to hurt yield if I can't get this humidity down (and FAE up!). Thanks in advance! Peace, till next update...
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acidninja
student



Registered: 09/08/16
Posts: 1,693
Loc: the system
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: shade12435]
#24035656 - 01/24/17 10:24 AM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
shade12435 said: I really don't see how to increase FAE anymore, the top poly is so thin its about to fall out and the bottom I have decreased by at least 50-60% as well...Bigger fan maybe? Right now I have a 12" diameter fan on high sitting about 3 feet from the closest end (to the camera)pointed at the wall next to the tubs (no direct air from fan blowing on tubs). I have at least a foot space around them from the back walls (see pic of tubs stacked above)...Some of my pins are growing sideways, lots of condensation on the sub surface, and some of the stems of the pins are showing that dark colouration indicitive of too much humidity (bc not enough FAE)... and they have plenty of light (two 2' 6500k floro tubes lighting entire room, then 4 shop lights (the kind you can clamp on to things) with 6500k CFLs, 2 mounted up high pointing directly down on the stacks, one about halfway up the stack and one near the bottom pointed directly at them, 12/12 schedule.
tl;dr
My tubs need more FAE and the regular fan on the wall nearby/loose poly isnt working for some reason. Suggestions?
I don't bro, I'm just a noob, maybe a TC can help out?
--------------------
- DMT - Liberty Cap Gallery
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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: acidninja]
#24035979 - 01/24/17 12:56 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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No worries mate...and yes, a TC taking the time to respond to this would be GREATLY appriciated! I'm sure one will get to it soon (I'm sure they are busy). Peace
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Dactylium
Don't touch me I'm sterile


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 696
Last seen: 10 months, 13 days
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: shade12435]
#24036078 - 01/24/17 01:47 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Bottom pic is trich
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FunGuyZ
Psilly Rabbit


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 177
Loc: down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: Dactylium]
#24036085 - 01/24/17 01:50 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Dactylium
Don't touch me I'm sterile


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 696
Last seen: 10 months, 13 days
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: FunGuyZ]
#24036103 - 01/24/17 01:57 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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I don't think FAE is the problem here. I'm more worried about the health of your spawn. If you followed Frank's 12 steps that means you put spore to grain. And if you can't identify those huge patches of trich that means you likely had bacterial spawn and didn't know it.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: NEED TO INCREASE FAE!!! [Re: Dactylium]
#24036137 - 01/24/17 02:07 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Dactylium said: I don't think FAE is the problem here. I'm more worried about the health of your spawn. If you followed Frank's 12 steps that means you put spore to grain. And if you can't identify those huge patches of trich that means you likely had bacterial spawn and didn't know it.
bingo.
those look like trich shrooms. the grow thin tall and abort like that.
substrates surface conditions look dry also.
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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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1/27/2017 UPDATE...First flush from 3 tubs...Trich? [Re: Dactylium]
#24042982 - 01/27/17 05:08 AM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Hey all, 1/27/17 update...
First, some pics of my jars...
  
These ones have been colonizing (and been at 100%) for a little while, waiting for others to catch up so I can spawn them. I have a few that look like this, with that "thicker" looking mycelium and yellowish liquid in spots (metabolites)? However, all my jars have smelled like fresh mushrooms when spawned. I've had jars look like that and make tubs that are now fruiting...maybe I just got lucky, or maybe there really was nothing wrong with them.
   
These 4 pics are what most of my jars look like...from what I can tell, healthy, rhizomorphic (sp?) growth.
I appreciate the feedback (I did ask for it, after all)...would just like to note that yes, I did notice the "huge patches of trich", which is why I posted those bottom 2 pics in the post above and asked about it. Also, I have identified possible bacterial contams in a few of my jars (see first couple pics above). Out of 12 66qt monotubs (5 quarts of spawn in each) and 1 27qt mini-monotub (2 qts spawn), I have thrown 2 tubs away due to bacterial contamination. Nothing visible, but both of the tubs were colonizing and stalled at ~90%, then began to smell of apple cider...so they were immediately tossed.
The reason I did not jump to conclusions on what you are saying is trich is because it's been there for going on 2 weeks now and has not turned green. Furthermore, I've read in other posts concerning trich that mushrooms will not grow up through the trich. I have pins and now full size fruits that have done just that. Therefore, I wasn't (and still am not) sure if this is a "huge patch of trich". See pics below to clarify what I speak of. Also, there are signs of too high humidity...now including a few split caps, now that there are full-size fruits to look at. Check it out:
     
Those were all taken around 48hrs ago. As you can see, the surface is quite wet, with water droplets everywhere. I'm not sure what the person who posted above saying the "sub looks dry" was referring to...but I assure you it's not dry. You can see a pool of water that formed from all the condensation running down the sides...right after the pic was taken, I soaked that up with a paper towel. But all 3 tubs have lots of tiny droplets of water on the substrate surface.
 
That tub 48hrs ago, compared to tonight:

Lots more pins coming out.
Here's another one of the fruiting tubs...first pic is 48hrs ago, second 12hrs ago, third just now...
  
Here are some of the split caps, from too high humidity (I think)...there's only a few of them so my loosening of the poly and positioning the fan closer must be doing some good (at least I hope so).

Here are some more of the mushrooms growing out of the "trich". Notice that some have this thick whiteness actually attached to the stems...as they get bigger, this seems to recede. Seems like thick mycelium to me, but I'm a beginner in this (no contams on several previous pf-tek grows) so that's why I'm asking for input.
  
Here is a third tub, this one I could see something being possibly up with it since it produced such small fruits. Or it could be MS genetics, or too high humidity/not enough FAE...really trying to determine which.
   
I didn't post a pic of the 4th tub (the cased albino A+), because honestly there isn't much to look at. There's about a dozen full grown fruits that I'm going to pick tomorrow (i'll take pics before), some aborts, and maybe 20-30 more pins just now poking up thru the casing. I'm hoping there were just some early girls and the main first flush is starting to come up now, but we'll see.
Well, that's about it for now. Honestly I'm just happy that they are producing something, and that they haven't all turned green and died. Hopefully I'll continue to get lucky until I get good (and start into agar, isolates, etc etc). I want to get the basic technique of bulk growing down before getting more advanced.
As before, any input is very, VERY much appreciated. Peace
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: 1/27/2017 UPDATE...First flush from 3 tubs...Trich? [Re: shade12435]
#24043152 - 01/27/17 08:06 AM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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#1 agar is not advanced it's super easy.
#2 probably a hidden contam in the jar caused the trich.
#3 the small fruits are from the contamination first then growing conditions then genetics in that order imo. Lose the contam and increase room conditions then you can decide if it's genetics.
#4 I skimmed thru your post not gunna lie.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
Edited by van hatton (01/27/17 08:08 AM)
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shade12435



Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: 1/27/2017 UPDATE...First flush from 3 tubs...Trich? [Re: van hatton]
#24043622 - 01/27/17 12:20 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Yea, my posts get to be a bit long-winded perhaps... sorry about that. I'm sure in making 11 dozen quart jars (all inoculated via MS syringe) that i have a few with bacteria. The thing about the trich, tho, is that im not even sure it IS trich, despite what's been said. As i said, it's been 13 days and hasn't turned green at all, and there are mushrooms growing up from the suspected trich spots, something which I've read does not happen. That's why I'm not 100% sold as to it being trich. Anyone else have any input?
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Dactylium
Don't touch me I'm sterile


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 696
Last seen: 10 months, 13 days
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Re: 1/27/2017 UPDATE...First flush from 3 tubs...Trich? [Re: shade12435]
#24043723 - 01/27/17 12:56 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Those jars look bacterial af fam. It doesn't necessarily have to be trich. Lots of molds have white mycelium. Your shrooms are suffering cuz your spawn is sick. That thick, melting ice cream appearance to your jars is bad news. Metabolites are also a sign your mycelium is battling infection. I wouldn't spawn those.
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FunGuyZ
Psilly Rabbit


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 177
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Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: 1/27/2017 UPDATE...First flush from 3 tubs...Trich? [Re: shade12435]
#24043724 - 01/27/17 12:56 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Top 3 pics of jars, green = trich. I would toss those.
Quote:
shade12435 said:
I appreciate the feedback (I did ask for it, after all)...would just like to note that yes, I did notice the "huge patches of trich", which is why I posted those bottom 2 pics in the post above and asked about it. Also, I have identified possible bacterial contams in a few of my jars (see first couple pics above). Out of 12 66qt monotubs (5 quarts of spawn in each) and 1 27qt mini-monotub (2 qts spawn), I have thrown 2 tubs away due to bacterial contamination. Nothing visible, but both of the tubs were colonizing and stalled at ~90%, then began to smell of apple cider...so they were immediately tossed.
The reason I did not jump to conclusions on what you are saying is trich is because it's been there for going on 2 weeks now and has not turned green. Furthermore, I've read in other posts concerning trich that mushrooms will not grow up through the trich. I have pins and now full size fruits that have done just that. Therefore, I wasn't (and still am not) sure if this is a "huge patch of trich".
Trich can take up to three weeks to sporulate. And the spots in your tub that are def whiter than the mycelium and puffier are def trich. That you have mushrooms just means that the mycelium network was strong enough to fruit. I doubt you'll get a second flush from that tub. I would fruit it, harvest outside, and toss it.
Edited by FunGuyZ (01/27/17 01:05 PM)
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