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OfflineThe5thBeatle
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #24035764 - 01/24/17 11:08 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Transphobia is definitely a thing. Just because you and people you know haven't (I'm assuming) been affected by it, doesn't mean that it isn't a very real and very unfortunate social force that kills people on a regular basis.





are you sure they actually fear you or are they just assholes?




It's neither.


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OfflineThe5thBeatle
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #24035766 - 01/24/17 11:09 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kush_Zombie said:
This post makes me cringe so hard.




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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Tantrika]
    #24035778 - 01/24/17 11:12 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

John Nada said:
Why? Do you ever say the term "white people"? If so, then we have a ways to go. I demand that all white people be referred to as "The apes that evolved to have fair skin in Europe through natural selection" every single time you mention anyone of European heritage. And I'm not even fully white, so I will require some additional yet-to-be-determined pre-approved modifiers to that phrase, or else you're a bigot.




Trannie was specifically crafted to be an insult, not a neutral descriptor. White people wasn't specifically created to demean and marginalized. They are functionally different words. By your logic, nigger is as acceptable as black person, because they are both descriptors.

You intentionally want to harm, I don't, and thats the diff between you and me.




While respecting that our views on this matter differ somewhat,
would just like to chime in a bit here.

While trannie is frequently employed with an implied derisiveness,
also presume that it is frequently employed due to lack of awareness more than intention to harm.

Similar to how it is my presumption that the focus on pussy imagery in the women's march was more in response to Trump's recording during the election cycle,
rather than intentional efforts on that part of participants to alienate a portion of women.

However, to me, the issue around the term trannie is not with regards to the intention of the person using it to be derisive or not,
but rather that it potentially exposes the individual to violence, even if it may not be the intention of the person who used it.

There are a number, perhaps the majority, of people that are apathetic or tacitly opposed to the concept of transitioning,
as well as a number that are vocally opposed,
personally accept that; no one on this planet is accepted by everyone.

There are also a number of people that are violently opposed to the concept of transitioning,
and they are where the concern arises,
because use of the term trannie is like painting a target on an individual.
It may not be the intention of the person using the term to be derisive,
but the term itself may unintentionally facilitate violence towards its target.

Since there is also little to be done about that, have taken up study of self-defense.
Already aware that when it comes down to the wire there are things that end up being faced alone.

Hold a similar view toward pronouns,
if someone is referring to me as he or she it does not concern me,
quite so much as my concern that they are talking about me,
rather than to me as a person.




If they want to be offended then they can be offended, I'm going to use the term trannie until there is something more appropriate to call them. I'm not going to call a gay person homosexual, a straight person heterosexual, a black person an african american, or a white person a caucasion. Trannie is simply short for transexual, it's not like nigger where it was actually created to be an insult. The word trannie came to be for the same reason homo, hetero, etc did, because it's inconvenient to use longer words where short ones will do, especially if they literally mean the same thing, they're shortened versions of the politically correct words for fucks sake. Are you offended if I call you a hetero instead of a heterosexual?


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: krypto2000]
    #24035803 - 01/24/17 11:25 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Negro has meant black in Spanish since before Europeans knew black people existed, nigger is just a regional take on the word. The whole being offended by a word thing is just pathalogical entitlement.


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Offlinedjbluntmagic
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Repertoire89]
    #24035809 - 01/24/17 11:28 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Negro has meant black in Spanish since before Europeans knew black people existed, nigger is just a regional take on the word. The whole being offended by a word thing is just pathalogical entitlement.


When interpreting sociological matters you may have more success privileging history over etymology


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: djbluntmagic]
    #24035818 - 01/24/17 11:34 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Saying black in Spanish: negro
Today, yesterday and tomorrow

If someone finds it offensive to be referred to as white or black, I have no sympathy for them
Twisting someone's intent and demonizing them as evil racists for speaking their language , couldnt be more ironic. These terms entered the english language through obvious means without connotation.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: John Nada]
    #24035839 - 01/24/17 11:46 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

pachoo said:
Ya'll just talk about the anti-Trump March, you'll be good. And keep calling me transphobic, a monster and stupid however much makes you feel better. :thumbup:




I don't believe I ever called you transphobic specifically, and I don't think you are transphobic, but you might be under-informed as to how trans people identify. That's all. I'm not any less of a woman because of what's between my legs. That's all. We agree on basically everything else.

Quote:

John Nada said:
"Tranny" is not a derogatory term to most people




Most people aren't transsexual, so... Yeah.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #24035850 - 01/24/17 11:50 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
...
Hold a similar view toward pronouns,
if someone is referring to me as he or she it does not concern me,
quite so much as my concern that they are talking about me,
rather than to me as a person.




If they want to be offended then they can be offended, I'm going to use the term trannie until there is something more appropriate to call them. I'm not going to call a gay person homosexual, a straight person heterosexual, a black person an african american, or a white person a caucasion. Trannie is simply short for transexual, it's not like nigger where it was actually created to be an insult. The word trannie came to be for the same reason homo, hetero, etc did, because it's inconvenient to use longer words where short ones will do, especially if they literally mean the same thing, they're shortened versions of the politically correct words for fucks sake. Are you offended if I call you a hetero instead of a heterosexual?




Quite frankly not offended by any of the words you listed,
have been called enough different things throughout my life to feel largely immunized to such.

However, if I am out in public with a trans woman who is passing for a woman,
am going to consistently refer to her as her, and as a woman,
rather than as him or a trannie,
no matter how many years I may have considered her to be a man prior to transitioning,
due to knowing full well the potential risk to her safety associated with doing otherwise.

Have first-hand experienced violence enacted upon myself and those close to me as result of people's opposition to how someone identifies.

And as much as people may claim it is racist/religious discrimination for me to do so,
will fully mask a homosexual friend's sexual identity if talking to an Islamist,
even without living in an Islamic country,
due to not trusting the majority of followers of Islam to be accepting of something their religion opposes.

Am not of the opinion that words are fundamentally hurtful,
but fully recognize that particular words can, even unintentionally, incite violence,
if said by the wrong people, to the wrong people, or at the wrong time.

Do not mind people's use of words, but make efforts to be mindful of my own.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 2
    #24035852 - 01/24/17 11:51 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:


Quote:

John Nada said:
"Tranny" is not a derogatory term to most people




Most people aren't transsexual, so... Yeah.





Yeah, so suck it up and stop being offended over words not intended to offend.

All you do is alienate people who would otherwise sympathize with you by crying wolf.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Repertoire89]
    #24035858 - 01/24/17 11:56 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

If I hit somebody with my car unintentionally, does that mean they aren't injured by the impact? Just because I meant no harm? That's obviously an extreme example, but I only mean to illustrate that impact is not the same as intent, and that we are each responsible for the impact of our actions.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #24035872 - 01/24/17 12:02 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

You don't casually refer to a gay person as a faggot and you don't casually refer to a black person as a nigger though. You don't because you know the words are offensive and you know that they are more often used in a downcasted derogatory manner.

Trans is what I understand as the accepted short hand for transgender.


Intention means alot and generally we tend not to cast out these words, or swear words (for the most part), around strangers or people we don't know well because we know they may not be able to understand the intent.


I dunno because I'm not trans but I know that I could swallow someone casually calling me a dyke. If they called me a dyke or faggot after implying that my sexuality is a problem, like you do when you misgender trans people or try to say they are insane, then I'll have a problem with it. You've made it apparent you aren't okay with it and you have no respect for me as a person and are intentionally using derogatory terms.


I think that's why some people say these are "internal words" meant to be used within the group. Because some people are too stupid to use them appropriately. And some people are too stupid to understand when they're used appropriately.


--------------------
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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24035892 - 01/24/17 12:09 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

I used to, but now don't use the T-word at all. I wouldn't use it on myself or any of my friends. The word comes from "transvestite" and is used to describe gender-bending performance artists ie drag queens and kings. It's a violent word when it's used in reference to trans people because it implies that our identity is false.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Tantrika]
    #24036240 - 01/24/17 02:43 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
...
Hold a similar view toward pronouns,
if someone is referring to me as he or she it does not concern me,
quite so much as my concern that they are talking about me,
rather than to me as a person.




If they want to be offended then they can be offended, I'm going to use the term trannie until there is something more appropriate to call them. I'm not going to call a gay person homosexual, a straight person heterosexual, a black person an african american, or a white person a caucasion. Trannie is simply short for transexual, it's not like nigger where it was actually created to be an insult. The word trannie came to be for the same reason homo, hetero, etc did, because it's inconvenient to use longer words where short ones will do, especially if they literally mean the same thing, they're shortened versions of the politically correct words for fucks sake. Are you offended if I call you a hetero instead of a heterosexual?




Quite frankly not offended by any of the words you listed,
have been called enough different things throughout my life to feel largely immunized to such.

However, if I am out in public with a trans woman who is passing for a woman,
am going to consistently refer to her as her, and as a woman,
rather than as him or a trannie,
no matter how many years I may have considered her to be a man prior to transitioning,
due to knowing full well the potential risk to her safety associated with doing otherwise.

Have first-hand experienced violence enacted upon myself and those close to me as result of people's opposition to how someone identifies.

And as much as people may claim it is racist/religious discrimination for me to do so,
will fully mask a homosexual friend's sexual identity if talking to an Islamist,
even without living in an Islamic country,
due to not trusting the majority of followers of Islam to be accepting of something their religion opposes.

Am not of the opinion that words are fundamentally hurtful,
but fully recognize that particular words can, even unintentionally, incite violence,
if said by the wrong people, to the wrong people, or at the wrong time.

Do not mind people's use of words, but make efforts to be mindful of my own.




I agree with all of that and I respect w/e gender people want to identify with. I'll call a trans boy to girl a girl as opposed to 'you trannie' or whatever obviously, that can be offensive depending on the context, just like saying, "the blacks" can be offensive. It's not bc being called black is offensive, but how you speak of them and in many contexts while the labels are not offensive the way they are used is and in some cases it is used to seperate yourself from them or vice versa. When you add "the" in front of something to it changes from talking about some of the group to literally referring to the group as a whole.


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InvisiblepachooDiscord
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #24036255 - 01/24/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:

I don't believe I ever called you transphobic specifically, and I don't think you are transphobic, but you might be under-informed as to how trans people identify. That's all. I'm not any less of a woman because of what's between my legs. That's all. We agree on basically everything else.





No. Just no. I want you to quote what I stated about you not being part of womanhood and also where I called you a wannabe woman. Show me. But you will find that there is none. I called you a TRANSWOMAN and because you are a transwoman you are part of the womans rights and you should fight for both bc you are both. In a political type thread it should be factual. I am a biologically born female. You are a transfemale. This is pure fact. I am not insulting you. I am stating facts. This is how we physically are. I consider our soul bodies as a different matter and really shouldnt be part of politics except to gain pull against discrimination to them.

For privacy situations, such as obtaining a birth certificate with your changed sex, you would and should not have to disclose that information for jobs and the like. I believe it would only cause for intimate relationships. In social situations, personally I wouldnt give a shit about if you were trans, gay, lesbian, thought you were a animal or whatever. I dont care in those situatons.

Even hinting otherwise, such as saying I do not consider you part of womanhood bc you were born with a dick,  than what I have already said is accusatory of me being transphobic. That is how I feel about your words to me.


--------------------


:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: pachoo]
    #24036353 - 01/24/17 03:22 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

pachoo said:

You mean help fight for rights of something you so desperately want to become physically and consider yourself to be?




I'm on your side already. I don't have a choice but to be. All I ask is for the same respect you demand for yourself.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Sophistic Radiance (01/24/17 03:30 PM)


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #24036428 - 01/24/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

You know this is a case of poor phrasing.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #24036429 - 01/24/17 03:51 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

I didn't know about planned parenthood supplying services like that to trans, I apologize Cosmic & Blind. However I still think there's no point in making a stink about the women's march instead of just supporting it. Also what I was thinking is Blind said she supported trump and in big part the women's march is against trump.


--------------------
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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24036436 - 01/24/17 03:54 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

She called me a wannabe woman. That is some pretty cataclysmically poor phrasing for anybody who claims to accept trans people for who they are. I am not nor ever have been "biologically male".


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #24036444 - 01/24/17 03:56 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I didn't know about planned parenthood supplying services like that to trans, I apologize Cosmic & Blind. However I still think there's no point in making a stink about the women's march instead of just supporting it. Also what I was thinking is Blind said she supported trump and in big part the women's march is against trump.




I don't support Trump but I don't support Hillary either.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: pachoo] * 2
    #24036475 - 01/24/17 04:04 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Why is it on me to fight other people's battles, in ADDITION to my own, before I can be said to have earned their support in mine? Like, if I just pretend that the people who are rudely demanding my help aren't perpetuating a lie that kills my people, they'll magically come to the aid of my community next time one of us is being killed by that same lie?

:callingbullshit:





Quote:

pachoo said:



I'm sorry what??!!
:lol:

You mean help fight for rights of something you so desperately want to become physically and consider yourself to be? Which rights will ultimately affect you after you get that birth certificate saying you are a woman?!!! Plus rights and support for trans which were already part of the march as well?! Your people?!! IN THE WOMEN'S MARCH?!!!

So you actually DON'T consider yourself female? So if I am for the woman's march, or for women's rights in general, I must obviously be against the trans community in your logic? I sure appreciate that remark towards myself. Really, I do. Especially since it is so false. As you already know, I am all for LGBT rights.

:dawerp:


:canthelpbutlaugh:

You are too much dude. Too much. So selfish. So condescending. Good thing you aren't a spokesperson.


Women's March Unity Principles




From what I understand you both took shit out of context. Which is common, I know, but I know you two don't want to drill out eachothers assholes because of miscommunications... Like some here...

Everything you have said to eachother since has been attempts to clear up misunderstanding but because you're both emotionally invested now you both just go deeper and deeper in the original misconceptions.

This happens alot, I'm not enjoying seeing it happen between you two. In a certain context both of you said some offensive ass shit but, possibly because I've been withdrawn from the debate, I can see what you both intended to say.

As your friend, the cookie, I would recommend you both sober up and consider what happened here with how you both phrased things.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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