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OfflineConnoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24030122 - 01/22/17 10:23 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Connoisseur said:
it seems that many transsexuals want to be thought of not as transsexuals at all, why?




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Invisiblepsi
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #24030131 - 01/22/17 10:26 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Quote:

rudebuoy said:
I love watching the far left inner conflict between the feminists and the transgenders. Feminists can't stand the transies idea that womanhood is just a state of mind, as well they shouldnt.




Most feminists aren't transphobic but the elite ivory tower feminists are hella transphobic. They are also completely insane. Their paranoia of trans people induces them to reconstitute and reinforce the gender roles they ostensibly resist, such as "women are essentially nurturing" and "men are essentially violent", in order to suggest that trans women should not be permitted in women's spaces because their penis automatically makes them a rapist.



I think some of the hardcore feminists also prefer to think that gender roles are 100% socially constructed, with no basis whatsoever in biological differences. The idea that you can be socialized from childhood to fit one gender role, but that it doesn't "stick" because you're biologically wired otherwise, doesn't jive with this view.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #24030168 - 01/22/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...
Quote:

Just takes a lot of time for it to happen likely cause being trans perhaps looks more odd than being gay :shrug:





it's odd because of the fact that many trans people have hidden it from everyone
for much of their life and arent transitioning until later in life, they're
waiting until their in their 40s and 50s which comes as a huge shock to people
they know and because of this they're often ostracized. we're frequently told that
these things are wrong, that being gay/trans/what ever is a mental illness or some
other load of shit and we're taught this stuff from a young age in most of the
world but some cultures accept it
...




While not disagreeing with the core of your post, would just like to poke in at this part

From a young age, any interest held in 'feminine' traits was frequently squelched,
because boys were expected to like certain things.

In my teen years, was allowed to start shopping for my own clothes,
my family mostly considered me a black sheep and stopped caring,
but wearing skirts and makeup in high school quite immediately and permanently acquired me a particular reputation,
from which point on it was simply commonplace to be insulted, spit on, have stuff thrown at me.
Sticking up for me resulted in my best friend getting sucker-punched and stomped in the school basement.
People frequently made threats against my life,
and even after moving across the country after graduation,
returning for a visit 2 years later with a beard and men's clothing still resulted in the same people trying to come after me.

It was not until my late 20s that exposure to the concept of transitional surgery actually came up,
had spent years hoping to simply one day wake up in an alternate universe born as a woman,
then learned that people actually transition.

Currently regularly see multiple mental health professionals,
but due to having also been diagnosed with the most severe level of classification for OCD,
my approach to transitioning is necessarily more slow as result,
specifically because my OCD causes a number of issues with inability to perceive the visible reality in front of me as accurate.
If unable to look at a lamp with an unlit bulb and stop myself from being convinced it is turned on and an immediate fire hazard,
kind of want to get that under control, due to likewise not perceiving being born with male parts as being accurate
but the more heavily the OCD is medicated away, the more clear my focus toward transitioning progressively becomes.

That got a bit rambling, but to sort of close the loop,
will be around my mid 30s by the time my name is actually on the waiting list for transitional surgery,
then further years beyond that before actually getting in.

Am not trying to say that waiting towards my 40s or 50s is "not my fault,"
but that if going back to my 20s with knowledge, confidence, and support were an option it would be leapt upon far more early
At this point, it is approaching middle-age and holding considerations toward the end of life,
do not live particularly healthily, bad habits and apathy,
could kick off by or before 60
Do I die as I lived?
Do I instead hope to be able to love myself enough to care for myself Now that my life may see prolongning and potential happiness?

It's already a shit-show in my own mind,
looking toward a shit-show of others trying to adapt is no consolation.
Have been ostracized, spent a big portion of my life running because of it,
now have to look at holding the bravery to run back into being ostracized.

Basically agree with you, and this is just a long, wordy, redundant description as to why
but it's typed now, so hope posting it anyway has not resulted in too large of a waste of your time. :cookiemonster:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Patlal]
    #24030209 - 01/22/17 10:54 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Have you guys seen the sea of weakness that crawled around all the major cities yesterday?





I saw the world's largest period sync







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OfflineConnoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #24030211 - 01/22/17 10:55 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

the fact they littered all those signs is highly counter productive


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: psi] * 1
    #24030238 - 01/22/17 11:08 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Quote:

rudebuoy said:
I love watching the far left inner conflict between the feminists and the transgenders. Feminists can't stand the transies idea that womanhood is just a state of mind, as well they shouldnt.




Most feminists aren't transphobic but the elite ivory tower feminists are hella transphobic. They are also completely insane. Their paranoia of trans people induces them to reconstitute and reinforce the gender roles they ostensibly resist, such as "women are essentially nurturing" and "men are essentially violent", in order to suggest that trans women should not be permitted in women's spaces because their penis automatically makes them a rapist.



I think some of the hardcore feminists also prefer to think that gender roles are 100% socially constructed, with no basis whatsoever in biological differences. The idea that you can be socialized from childhood to fit one gender role, but that it doesn't "stick" because you're biologically wired otherwise, doesn't jive with this view.




That's the other part of it. What's bizarre is that both oerspectives-- the one you outlined and the one I outlined-- actually coexist in these people's minds.

I feel like the sane feminist perspective to have is that men and women are different but that these differences can't be boiled down to limitations. For anything a man can do there is a woman out there who can do it as well or better, and vice versa. We don't have to say that men and women are exactly the same to support the idea that they should have equal chances at any given field of study and work. The TERFs get hung up on thinking that equality of opportunity requires uniformity.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #24030300 - 01/22/17 11:45 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...
Quote:

Just takes a lot of time for it to happen likely cause being trans perhaps looks more odd than being gay :shrug:





it's odd because of the fact that many trans people have hidden it from everyone
for much of their life and arent transitioning until later in life, they're
waiting until their in their 40s and 50s which comes as a huge shock to people
they know and because of this they're often ostracized. we're frequently told that
these things are wrong, that being gay/trans/what ever is a mental illness or some
other load of shit and we're taught this stuff from a young age in most of the
world but some cultures accept it
...




While not disagreeing with the core of your post, would just like to poke in at this part

From a young age, any interest held in 'feminine' traits was frequently squelched,
because boys were expected to like certain things.

In my teen years, was allowed to start shopping for my own clothes,
my family mostly considered me a black sheep and stopped caring,
but wearing skirts and makeup in high school quite immediately and permanently acquired me a particular reputation,
from which point on it was simply commonplace to be insulted, spit on, have stuff thrown at me.
Sticking up for me resulted in my best friend getting sucker-punched and stomped in the school basement.
People frequently made threats against my life,
and even after moving across the country after graduation,
returning for a visit 2 years later with a beard and men's clothing still resulted in the same people trying to come after me.

It was not until my late 20s that exposure to the concept of transitional surgery actually came up,
had spent years hoping to simply one day wake up in an alternate universe born as a woman,
then learned that people actually transition.

Currently regularly see multiple mental health professionals,
but due to having also been diagnosed with the most severe level of classification for OCD,
my approach to transitioning is necessarily more slow as result,
specifically because my OCD causes a number of issues with inability to perceive the visible reality in front of me as accurate.
If unable to look at a lamp with an unlit bulb and stop myself from being convinced it is turned on and an immediate fire hazard,
kind of want to get that under control, due to likewise not perceiving being born with male parts as being accurate
but the more heavily the OCD is medicated away, the more clear my focus toward transitioning progressively becomes.

That got a bit rambling, but to sort of close the loop,
will be around my mid 30s by the time my name is actually on the waiting list for transitional surgery,
then further years beyond that before actually getting in.

Am not trying to say that waiting towards my 40s or 50s is "not my fault,"
but that if going back to my 20s with knowledge, confidence, and support were an option it would be leapt upon far more early
At this point, it is approaching middle-age and holding considerations toward the end of life,
do not live particularly healthily, bad habits and apathy,
could kick off by or before 60
Do I die as I lived?
Do I instead hope to be able to love myself enough to care for myself Now that my life may see prolongning and potential happiness?

It's already a shit-show in my own mind,
looking toward a shit-show of others trying to adapt is no consolation.
Have been ostracized, spent a big portion of my life running because of it,
now have to look at holding the bravery to run back into being ostracized.

Basically agree with you, and this is just a long, wordy, redundant description as to why
but it's typed now, so hope posting it anyway has not resulted in too large of a waste of your time. :cookiemonster:





we certainly arent in disagreement, you've added a great deal more insight than I
could have because I'm an outsider looking in and what you've said is very
insightful. it gives me a better understanding and hopefully does the same for
others


now for me to add a little more, waiting until later in life to transition isnt
your fault, it's based on a very rational fear and very real world situations. you
started experiencing the rejection from your family at a young age because you did
express yourself as you felt, you became an outcast and attacked from many of the
people you were growing up with, that in it's self takes a serious toll emotionally
and having never been in your shoes or sophies, I cannot even fathom how rough it
is. I've known a number of trans women and a few trans men through my life and
every one of them showed a hell of a lot of strength to be so emotionally fragile.

now for the amusing anecdote. I had some friends over, one was a trans woman named
dianne, another was a friend that just discharged from the army, he's not the
typical bigoted soldier and we were taking him to a few clubs in atlanta, ted and
dianne had met a few times before and he expressed an interest, well on this night
everyone was trying to explain to him that dianne isnt the kind of girl he'd be
interested in without outing her and she had politely turned down his advances.
anyway, ted was in my bathroom taking a bath when dianne got there, she of course
asked if he was coming and wasnt looking forward to it. we told her where he was
and she walked back, knocked on the door, went in and about 3 minutes later he
came running out buck naked. ted had invited her to hop in the tub with him, she
accepted. her version of events is that it didnt work out because hers is bigger
and it probably is because we saw ted's

now for the reason behind this story, I wanted to give you a response that was
more than just saying 'k'. ted and dianne made up that night over a few drinks,
he still hit on her a lot and she still turned him down. no one but ted knows if
he was serious of if it was just his way of telling her she was attractive. now
for the moral of it. trans people have more support than they think and some comes
from very unexpected places

thanks for your post, it wasnt a waste of time. sophie would have probably
explained it but we like to spend our days arguing like a married couple


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Invisiblepsi
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #24030325 - 01/22/17 11:57 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
I feel like the sane feminist perspective to have is that men and women are different but that these differences can't be boiled down to limitations. For anything a man can do there is a woman out there who can do it as well or better, and vice versa. We don't have to say that men and women are exactly the same to support the idea that they should have equal chances at any given field of study and work. The TERFs get hung up on thinking that equality of opportunity requires uniformity.




It seems like another consequence of assuming uniformity is that, in order to demonstrate that the system is biased, one can just point to inequality of outcome and call it a day, rather than having to deal with a bunch of pesky nuance. IMO even in a truly unbiased system we shouldn't necessarily expect a "perfect" 50/50 split of the sexes in every profession.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #24030331 - 01/22/17 11:58 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
We don't have to say that men and women are exactly the same to support the idea that they should have equal chances at any given field of study and work.





there's a lot of false information regarding this equal opportunity/equal pay crap,
women dont make less for the same job in the same company, in different companies
the rates may be different but there's no company out there offering less money to
women based on their sex when they're doing the same job. it's illegal and it has
been since 1962. women tend to take up occupations that have a lower pay rate and
the opportunities out there are also open to both sexes in almost all cases, the
military being the one area that still limits women. I worked with women in
construction and I currently work with female engineers, 4 of them are black women
and 2 of those are higher paid than several of the men who have more experience in
the same field

most of these rights activists groups work on a lie and push it hard enough hoping
that people will be outraged by the claims and not bother to look any further


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #24030355 - 01/22/17 12:07 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

I do disagree with the thread title though. That march/rally was for all women trans or not.


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #24030386 - 01/22/17 12:21 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

The way that you guys accepted that Obama was our president? :smirk:


--------------------


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Offlinexzylocybin
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Cosmic_Flame] * 2
    #24030389 - 01/22/17 12:22 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

This is like saying that the standing rock protests are transphobic because they aren't about trans issues

Your line of reasoning makes no sense at all.

The land before time movies were racist against blacks because they didn't contain a strong enough pro black message or black actors


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24030405 - 01/22/17 12:29 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

No, that's not an appropriate comparison. The standing rock protests aren't about sex or gender at all. But yesterday was a women's march whose aesthetic revolved around a body part that some women do not have, thereby excluding them from the narrative shared by the cis women in attendance. This is called cisnormativity, the assumption that everybody is cissexual. Cisnormativity is at the heart of almost all systemic transphobia. At its worst it is the functional basis for our torture and erasure by the state.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #24030406 - 01/22/17 12:29 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
I do disagree with the thread title though. That march/rally was for all women trans or not.





maybe to you but not to everyone


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Dark_Star]
    #24030410 - 01/22/17 12:31 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
The way that you guys accepted that Obama was our president? :smirk:





can you find me one single instance where I said "obama is not my president", obama
was elected just like every other president, I didnt agree with his policies or his
practice of being a clinton but that didnt make him any less a president


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InvisibleBoomer The Great
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #24030411 - 01/22/17 12:32 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

:blah:


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #24030412 - 01/22/17 12:33 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

You bitched about him constantly.


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: xzylocybin] * 1
    #24030413 - 01/22/17 12:33 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

xzylocybin said:
This is like saying that the standing rock protests are transphobic because they aren't about trans issues





are you saying that transwomen arent women?


Quote:

The land before time movies were racist against blacks because they didn't contain a strong enough pro black message or black actors





now that you've said it, this needs to be addressed. call sharpton


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Dark_Star]
    #24030415 - 01/22/17 12:34 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
You bitched about him constantly.





I bitched about his policies, I didnt claim him to be an illegitimate president


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: The women's march is hella transphobic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #24030420 - 01/22/17 12:36 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

You should've just gotten used to his policies. He was our president.


--------------------


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