|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Do you really believe that the moon exists only when you look at it? 1
#24028977 - 01/21/17 07:10 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
I don't want to change anyone I just want to express some opinions that I value, that said I don't think many of us share a deterministic view towards science.
I'm no expert but I'll have a go at explaining energy in my own words.
Quote:
Electrons are particles of energy because they can exert a force over a distance, in other words electrons produce electrical energy as they travel from atom to atom.
By 'energy exists' I mean that the work of different forms of energy such as kinetic, electrical and magnetic energy are all measurable, e.g. wave length/ frequency/ amplitude/ voltage/ ampere etc.
Against an argument for Black Swan theory, if I have not seen a unicorn I will not believe it until I see it, and since unicorns currently are not known to exist I can currently refute their existence. If the day comes that they are proven to exist then my refutation would become invalid and I think I would be able to accept a wider perspective.
Quote:
"Until a particle is observed, an act that causes the wave function to “collapse,” we can say nothing about its location. Albert Einstein, among others, objected to this idea. As his biographer Abraham Pais wrote: “We often discussed his notions on objective reality. I recall that during one walk Einstein suddenly stopped, turned to me and asked whether I really believed that the moon exists only when I look at it.”
I don't follow the Copenhagen interpretation of the double slit experiment so I've interpreted energy as that of a particle guided by the force of a pilot wave.

My stance is this, 'Particles have a definite position whether or not we are aware of it.'
Final word: If you look into a mirror you will never see your eyes look away from you, so do you really believe that the moon only exists when you look at it?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (01/21/17 09:15 PM)
|
Near Dylan
Shitpost Artist


Registered: 07/29/15
Posts: 13,929
Last seen: 8 days, 37 minutes
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24028997 - 01/21/17 07:24 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
--------------------
|
krishnalove
ᕙ(░ಥ╭͜ʖ╮ಥ░)━☆゚.*・。゚



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 343
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: Near Dylan]
#24029019 - 01/21/17 07:42 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around... does the moon still exist?
you sound high.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: krishnalove]
#24029038 - 01/21/17 07:59 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
As if being high somehow invalidates anything I've said.

Quote:
First up, this passage from Dreams from My Father:
"I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though—Mickey, my potentional intiator had been just a little too eager for me to go through with that."
http://poorrichardsnews.com/president-obama-admitted-to-felony-marijuana-and-cocaine/
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 3 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly] 1
#24029067 - 01/21/17 08:14 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Final word: If you look into a mirror you will never see your eyes look away from you
False
|
fungusfun
Changeling



Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 29
Loc: Virgo Supercluster
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly] 1
#24029072 - 01/21/17 08:16 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
I suppose I believe only the fact that I exist, as it is self evident and does not require my belief. The perceptions within my field of awareness are sensed, converted into electrical impulses and then reconstructed in the brain. First, this process is open for error both in the perceptive mechanisms (senses), and the interpretation of those signals. Second, as humans our ability to perceive as we do may very well be guided by survivability and not by an accurate reconstruction of reality. An interesting TED talk on the matter:
So I cannot believe with conviction that anything exterior to my primary experience of awareness is real. I cannot deny the existence of anything. I cannot affirm the existence of anything. I can only calculate the probability that something exists based upon that which I can bring up from memory of imperfect sensations and imperfect interpretation of those sensations. Memory is also imperfect, so this puts me even further at a disadvantage in predicting the existence of a thing.
To weave this into your post a little more, you might find it interesting to consider the theories of Robert Campbell in his book, "My Big Theory of Everything," who postulated that we live in a virtual reality almost a decade before Elon Musk made the idea popular.
If this is true, our field of perception is like a computer terminal. When we view a "chunk" of reality, that chunk is on and available as sensory experience. When we turn away, it is off, and only a mathematical representation of reality exists. To save on computing power, the "universal computer" does not need to calculate the the exact location of every object when the terminal does not require that data. Therefore, when reality is "off" in a sense, only probabilities of location can be calculated. When reality is "on", the computer quickly calculates position as things collapse.
To me his theories are a bit presumptuous. I don't think it has ever been proven in any way that our observation of the wave/particle phenomenon carries over into matter as it is constructed on our scale. His theories also are intertwined with his belief that he can travel out of body to observe other levels of the universe as he was a student of Robert Monroe. If you are interested in reading 1000 pages of genius mixed with wild speculation, it is actually pretty cool.
Ok, I'm getting carried away I guess. To answer the question, I'm not sure whether the moon exists at all. Everything to me has an asterisk beside it that says "seemingly." When I state at the moon it seems to exist. When I look away, it seems like it did exist, and it seems that it will probably exist when I look back. Unfortunately I have no means of knowing if it seems to exist presently when it is not within my field of vision.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#24029103 - 01/21/17 08:33 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: fungusfun]
#24029112 - 01/21/17 08:39 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fungusfun said: When we view a "chunk" of reality, that chunk is on and available as sensory experience.
To me that can be explained by Mental Synthesis.
Here's another Ted Talk on the subject.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (01/21/17 10:01 PM)
|
fungusfun
Changeling



Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 29
Loc: Virgo Supercluster
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24029247 - 01/21/17 09:54 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
You'll need to elaborate a bit because I can't make the connection. The video is interesting, so thanks for posting. The theory posits that mental synthesis can explain how the brain can construct an image of two unrelated things, and to a layman like me it makes sense.
However, I'm always looking for edge cases and while I was watching I began to think of the Picasso quote, "I paint objects as I think them, not as I see them." The man had a net of neural connections that formed a filter to reconstruct objects in a way that was not observable in nature. Anyways, I think the theory is on the right track but it is missing something essential in that it cannot explain objects transformed through a unique artistic expression. Perhaps it just needs built upon.
Anyways, I'd like to express my gratitude. You made me think slowly and deeply this evening.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: fungusfun]
#24029277 - 01/21/17 10:08 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Mental synthesis occurs when the neocortex simultaneously activates neural ensemble to contrast images of known things to create a new mental visualisation otherwise known as an implicit perception.
There is a neural ensemble of electrical activity for each specific memory/experience.
Finally, the Hebbian principle states neurons that fire together wire together.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
fungusfun
Changeling



Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 29
Loc: Virgo Supercluster
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24029323 - 01/21/17 10:38 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: Mental synthesis occurs when the neocortex simultaneously activates neural ensemble to contrast images of known things to create a new mental visualisation otherwise known as an implicit perception.
There is a neural ensemble of electrical activity for each specific memory/experience.
Finally, the Hebbian principle states neurons that fire together wire together.

In general terms I understand the content of the video. What I meant to say is that I wasn't clear on how to subject matter of the video connected to the theory of the physicist Robert Campbell who believes that our reality is virtual in nature and reverts to mathematical probabilities when there is no conscious entity to demand the data in a concrete form.
It doesn't really matter though, I just enjoyed working through the logic. To me, mental synthesis is far too narrow in scope. It explains how perceived A + perceived B = unperceived C. It offers no explanation of how perceived A * unperceived filter B = unperceived C. I've already state my objections to Campbell. To never compromise leads me back to where I always begin, the middle way: unknown, unknowing, and veraciously questioning everything.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: fungusfun]
#24029331 - 01/21/17 10:43 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
I think I understand that but I have a personal bias towards a few other hypothesise that I'm trying to simplify into a theoretical fact.
I think that one day we graduate and we don't have to question our qualifications anymore, however counter intuitive that may appear to be.
I'm trying to explain this model of an 'Anatomical Tripartite-Dichotomy'.

I can't help but see correlations.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (01/21/17 10:57 PM)
|
fungusfun
Changeling



Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 29
Loc: Virgo Supercluster
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly] 2
#24029538 - 01/22/17 01:43 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: I think I understand that but I have a personal bias towards a few other hypothesise that I'm trying to simplify into a theoretical fact.
I think that one day we graduate and we don't have to question our qualifications anymore, however counter intuitive that may appear to be.
I'm trying to explain this model of an 'Anatomical Tripartite-Dichotomy'.

I can't help but see correlations.
When we get into biology I cannot follow. I see the meduala thingy, the amidgdala and pineal thingy, and the rest (forgive my spelling). What I would say is this: there is no safe theory. Theorize fearlessly and pray that people find fault in your theory so you can be the blade and humanity your whetstone. Be confident in your qualifications now, but never graduate, lest you begin to know and stop your effort at understanding.
"In times of change learners inherit the earth; while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." -Eric Hoffer
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: fungusfun]
#24029544 - 01/22/17 01:49 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
It's the fore brain(mental synthesis), the limbic system(cardiac/heart rate) and the autonomic nervous system(digestion/fight or flight response/blood pressure) that I'm pointing out in the model.

Quote:
The sympathetic control of blood pressure:
Hypertension — the chronic elevation of blood pressure — is a major human health problem. In most cases, the root cause of the disease remains unknown, but there is mounting evidence that many forms of hypertension are initiated and maintained by an elevated sympathetic tone. This review examines how the sympathetic tone to cardiovascular organs is generated, and discusses how elevated sympathetic tone can contribute to hypertension.
http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v7/n5/full/nrn1902.html
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (01/22/17 01:55 AM)
|
fungusfun
Changeling



Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 29
Loc: Virgo Supercluster
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24029577 - 01/22/17 02:42 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
sudly said: It's the fore brain(mental synthesis), the limbic system(cardiac/heart rate) and the autonomic nervous system(digestion/fight or flight response/blood pressure) that I'm pointing out in the model.

Quote:
The sympathetic control of blood pressure:
Hypertension — the chronic elevation of blood pressure — is a major human health problem. In most cases, the root cause of the disease remains unknown, but there is mounting evidence that many forms of hypertension are initiated and maintained by an elevated sympathetic tone. This review examines how the sympathetic tone to cardiovascular organs is generated, and discusses how elevated sympathetic tone can contribute to hypertension.
http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v7/n5/full/nrn1902.html
I'm trying to tell you, in the most humble manner possible, to look beyond these systems which have been well defined for 40+ years, to drown in the ocean of unknowing for a time, and to come up for air with an answer, or better yet a question. For instance, the mammalian brain extends far beyond the image you showed me as is known from dissections the 1950's, as the feline brain is comprised of 3% frontal lobe by mass and the canine brain is comprised of 7% frontal lobe by mass, which I remember from a stupid class from at least 20+ years ago.
I'm not dishonest, because truly I do not know the individual biological parts of the brain. I offered my ignorance in hopes that you would respond likewise. Blah, blah, blah, bah, bah, bahh. Perhaps your brain is set up like mine, to "know what you don't know" and learn from that which is presented. You are not stupid so I'm sure the 2nd way is not yours. Unfortunately you could belong to the third way, acting as if they know in hopes that they do not belong to the 2nd way.
Dude, come up with your own stuff and hope that people try to tear you down. Anything less is "compliance" or "stupidity".
Edited by fungusfun (01/22/17 02:50 AM)
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: fungusfun]
#24029589 - 01/22/17 02:55 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
I'm just a dual soul.

For me the only question is if it's possible to subjugate the fight or flight response with sympathomimetic drugs like psilocybin?
Quote:
Sympathomimetic : (of a drug) producing physiological effects characteristic of the sympathetic nervous system by promoting the stimulation of sympathetic nerves.
Quote:
Behavioural effects are dependent on dose and the individual reaction and sensitivity to psilocybin, previous experiences and the setting. The major effects are related to the central nervous system, but there are also some sympathomimetic effects. http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/mushrooms
I ask that because the way I see it, somehow humans learnt to override our fight or flight response and I suppose it may have something to do with an anxyiolytic chemical that mimics serotonin neurotransmitter molecules just as metabolised psilocybin is and does.
Quote:
Psilocybin is thought to act as an agonist at serotonin receptors, meaning it increases serotonin transmission. Thus, it may be that antidepressants like SSRIs that act on serotonin--at least as part of their mechanism--have something in common with psilocybin. And, it suggests that perhaps psilocybin should continue to be investigated for its antidepressant and anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) properties. http://www.neuroscientificallychallenged.com/blog/2014/5/12/magic-mushrooms-and-the-amygdala

-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (01/22/17 03:03 AM)
|
BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24030572 - 01/22/17 01:30 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
As far as I see is, that what made us able to 'reflect' our instincts and so, override our 'fight or flight' mechanism is the development of the neocortex. It's not in molecules. Maybe I can hint you to the study of 'duality' by looking at the both hemispheres of the neo cortex, before you deepen your theories of that trichotomy ('Tripartite-Dichotomy')?
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
Re: Do you really believe that the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24030659 - 01/22/17 02:06 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
My interpretation is that the photon fixates when it's observed or otherwise interacts with it's environment. The Moon is a collection of particles and therefore has a constant fixation. Both photons and Moons exist independent of my awareness, but one has an indeterminate position while the other does not.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
Prem. Kissoff
Tourist with a typewriter

Registered: 11/09/16
Posts: 259
|
Re: Do you really believe that the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: sudly]
#24030720 - 01/22/17 02:24 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
blowing my mind, im just gonna close my eyes and it will all go away
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
|
Re: Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#24030943 - 01/22/17 03:44 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BlueCoyote said: As far as I see is, that what made us able to 'reflect' our instincts and so, override our 'fight or flight' mechanism is the development of the neocortex. It's not in molecules. Maybe I can hint you to the study of 'duality' by looking at the both hemispheres of the neo cortex, before you deepen your theories of that trichotomy ('Tripartite-Dichotomy')?
Yeah, it's the neocortex and it's full of synaptic networks that utilise neurotransmitters to communicate.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (01/22/17 04:05 PM)
|
|