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InvisibleAsante
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Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects
    #24028132 - 01/21/17 12:33 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

The common prescription drugs Neurontin and Lyrica are implicated in a study as "causing brain decline faster than any drug known to mankind" and potentially also have adverse effects on foetal development.

Article


Discuss intelligently


--------------------
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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: Asante] * 3
    #24028137 - 01/21/17 12:37 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

When I view the article, there is a little "1" which I'd assume is a source, though I don't see a source listed.

In the absence of proof or data, I'd assume this is bunk. These drugs have been marketed long enough that if there were some catastrophic side effect we'd know about it by now.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: Asante] * 3
    #24028139 - 01/21/17 12:38 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Looks like clickbait targetted at users of Lyrica, aimed at getting them to purchase supplements from the "source" of the article, http://www.wellnessresources.com/, instead.


But I don't know anything about Lyrica. I wouldn't use this article as any substantial proof of anything given it's source material clearly stated on the bottom of the article and sloppy execution of it's information.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24028144 - 01/21/17 12:41 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

I'd think all gaba drugs could cause brain damage if abused enough for long enough. :shrug:


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: Asante]
    #24028146 - 01/21/17 12:43 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
The common prescription drugs Neurontin and Lyrica are implicated in a study as "causing brain decline faster than any drug known to mankind"

Discuss intelligently





lies... marijuana has been known to do this in as little as 2 marijuana cigarettes






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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: Asante]
    #24028150 - 01/21/17 12:44 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

I was put on Gabapentin and later Pregabalin to treat the paresthesia in my feet.
They did nothing for the condition and I didn't like the side effects of either.
They both gave me wild mood swings and a terrible, unquenchable thirst.

I told my doctor I'd rather deal with the pain and if it got to bad I'd self medicate with Cannabis, which works! I only need the slightest of tokes, no tolerance, and I feel better for hours.

I've heard that they are abused in prisons for the high :eek:.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: deucedbi9] * 1
    #24028155 - 01/21/17 12:47 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)



--------------------
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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: Asante] * 2
    #24028184 - 01/21/17 12:59 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Lyrica is now approved for at least 5 indications.

Across the clinical trials required for these approvals exist data for thousands of patients probably number in the tens of thousands of thousands of "patient years." There don't appear to be reports of "serious brain deterioration."

Most place greater weight on the human, clinical data than data "based on experiments in cell culture and in mice."


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: badchad]
    #24028216 - 01/21/17 01:19 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

I remember seeing commercials for lyrica and being shocked at all the side effects...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: musiclover420]
    #24028247 - 01/21/17 01:42 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

I don't trust any drugs that haven't been used for at least over a hundred years. Other than some of the good stuff like acid and molly. I'll take mostly anything if its free though. I just won't trust it.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: cannabinated]
    #24028256 - 01/21/17 01:47 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
I don't trust any drugs that haven't been used for at least over a hundred years.



Antibiotics.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24028281 - 01/21/17 01:58 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

cannabinated said:
I don't trust any drugs that haven't been used for at least over a hundred years.



Antibiotics.




There are many natural antibiotics that have been used for thousands of years I imagine.

Many traditional plant medicines have antibacterial and parasitic effects.

Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Invisibleeeso
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24028283 - 01/21/17 01:59 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

There's still no link to the *actual journal article* in this thread.. Even the Stanford 'news' link Asante posted lacks one.

But I used to be prescribed 1.2g of gabapentin per day. So it's concerning to me.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn] * 5
    #24028284 - 01/21/17 01:59 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

If cannibinated gets a compound fracture, he's gonna take some whiskey & laudanum, then ask his barber to saw his leg off.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: musiclover420]
    #24028289 - 01/21/17 02:00 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.



Good points. I hadn't considered the idea that enough decades haven't passed to see the real downsides of antibiotics in the long term when I made the post either. Downsides aside, they have increased mortality quite a bit and it would be needless to not trust them if you have a bad infection.


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Invisibleeeso
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn] * 2
    #24028304 - 01/21/17 02:05 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.



Good points. I hadn't considered the idea that enough decades haven't passed to see the real downsides of antibiotics in the long term when I made the post either. Downsides aside, they have increased mortality quite a bit and it would be needless to not trust them if you have a bad infection.




*decreased* mortality!


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24028328 - 01/21/17 02:18 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.



Good points. I hadn't considered the idea that enough decades haven't passed to see the real downsides of antibiotics in the long term when I made the post either. Downsides aside, they have increased mortality quite a bit and it would be needless to not trust them if you have a bad infection.




I have nothing against antibiotics, I have taken em at least a few times for various purposes. Last time it was after a minor surgery to prevent an infection I think.

But exactly, there is no way of knowing all the long term effects they could have.

One scenario that comes to mind is pregnant women. It would make sense a mother would pass bacteria onto her babies before giving birth. So if a pregnant woman had been taking antibiotics and not balancing it with pro biotic supplements she could give birth to a baby lacking many beneficial organisms that could lead to various complications.

Who knows if that is how it works but it would make sense to me and seems like a possible issue with antibiotics.

Of course if I ever had a serious infection I would take some in a heart beat :shrug: I take probiotics pretty regularly though.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: eeso]
    #24028334 - 01/21/17 02:20 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

eeso said:
Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.



Good points. I hadn't considered the idea that enough decades haven't passed to see the real downsides of antibiotics in the long term when I made the post either. Downsides aside, they have increased mortality quite a bit and it would be needless to not trust them if you have a bad infection.




*decreased* mortality!



*


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24028401 - 01/21/17 02:57 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

cannabinated said:
I don't trust any drugs that haven't been used for at least over a hundred years.



Antibiotics.




Antibiotics are almost done with soon there's going to be a lot of dead mofo's

And yeah maybe 50 years but all I'm saying is even some of the drugs I love the most haven't been tested enough.

Also alcohol is bad for u


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #24028410 - 01/21/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
If cannibinated gets a compound fracture, he's gonna take some whiskey & laudanum, then ask his barber to saw his leg off.




I would OD and die. Laudanum sounds kinda awesome though, like natural lean.


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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: eeso]
    #24028413 - 01/21/17 03:03 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

eeso said:
There's still no link to the *actual journal article* in this thread.. Even the Stanford 'news' link Asante posted lacks one.

But I used to be prescribed 1.2g of gabapentin per day. So it's concerning to me.




1.2g a day? shit. I can't imagine. The most I took was 300mg a day of gabapentin, for about three months, and then 75 mg of pregabalin for three weeks.

Did you get the dry mouth and mood swings? My "swings" went from giggling like a schoolgirl at nothing, to a spitting rage. Yet some people want to abuse these drugs, in prison!

OK, I can understand the giggling being a bit of light relief when your in prison, but if it's followed by the spitting rage... :nonono:


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: musiclover420]
    #24028430 - 01/21/17 03:13 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
...if a pregnant woman had been taking antibiotics and not balancing it with pro biotic supplements she could give birth to a baby lacking many beneficial organisms that could lead to various complications.




Or...Better yet, she could get into some 'scissor sister' action with a friend. :naughty:

Oops,double post. I thought there would be a dozen posts by the time I replied.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: deucedbi9]
    #24028439 - 01/21/17 03:18 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
...if a pregnant woman had been taking antibiotics and not balancing it with pro biotic supplements she could give birth to a baby lacking many beneficial organisms that could lead to various complications.




Or...Better yet, she could get into some 'scissor sister' action with a friend. :naughty:

Oops,double post. I thought there would be a dozen posts by the time I replied.




Where did that come from? :lol:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Registered: 10/24/06
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: musiclover420]
    #24028486 - 01/21/17 03:38 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
...if a pregnant woman had been taking antibiotics and not balancing it with pro biotic supplements she could give birth to a baby lacking many beneficial organisms that could lead to various complications.




Or...Better yet, she could get into some 'scissor sister' action with a friend. :naughty:

Oops,double post. I thought there would be a dozen posts by the time I replied.




Where did that come from? :lol:




You know how women are. They'll have babies for each othe if need-be what's a little scissoring compared to that.

Or...They could make their own pro biotic:
The friend gets a pot of natural yoghurt stirs it with a nice wet 'sticky finger' leave it in a warm place for a day and gives it to her pregnant friend as a present with instructions to "dip your finger in the yoghurt pot and slide it up ya honey pot." Simples.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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OfflineMkUltra117
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: deucedbi9]
    #24028785 - 01/21/17 05:42 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

The fuck is this!:puke:


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Invisibleeeso
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: deucedbi9]
    #24029966 - 01/22/17 09:14 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
Quote:

eeso said:
There's still no link to the *actual journal article* in this thread.. Even the Stanford 'news' link Asante posted lacks one.

But I used to be prescribed 1.2g of gabapentin per day. So it's concerning to me.




1.2g a day? shit. I can't imagine. The most I took was 300mg a day of gabapentin, for about three months, and then 75 mg of pregabalin for three weeks.

Did you get the dry mouth and mood swings? My "swings" went from giggling like a schoolgirl at nothing, to a spitting rage. Yet some people want to abuse these drugs, in prison!

OK, I can understand the giggling being a bit of light relief when your in prison, but if it's followed by the spitting rage... :nonono:




Yep, Gabapentin (300mg capsules) 300mg at wake up, 300mg at lunch, 600mg at bedtime. I can't remember any unwanted effects now, nothing stands out to me, this was more than a few years ago now. I've never used it recreationaly so I don't know how that is, though I knew it was used that way when I was prescribed it.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: eeso]
    #24030044 - 01/22/17 09:50 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

I've been taking a high dose of gabapentin for four years and my cognition and memory seem to be extremely good. I mean, who knows if they would have been even better had I never taken it. I certainly wish I'd never started taking it.

I take 2400mg a day of gabapentin. I can def see how taking a Gaba-ergic substance could block synaptic growth. I think in my own case that might have been blocked by the fact that I also take an SNRI :sad:


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: morrowasted]
    #24030419 - 01/22/17 12:36 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Me too, Effexor and Lyrica.  Wish I never started, the SNRI causes violent withdrawal (brain zaps aka sensation of electric currents surging through crainium).  Easily the most addictive substances I've encountered.

I've been shunned for stating that Lyrica rots the brain.. sure feels like it sometimes.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Offlinepslyke
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #24030464 - 01/22/17 12:53 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

The severe cognitive impact of depression is well documented. If left untreated I would guess that the ensuing mental fog (and urge to kill oneself) would be worse than any side effect associated with Lyrica...


--------------------
"What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein

"The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante


:kratom:


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: pslyke]
    #24030713 - 01/22/17 02:22 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Very true story, speak for Effexor, as well.  My true story, why I've stayed on.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #24032719 - 01/23/17 08:39 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I've been on Effexor before. And even having experienced the horrible withdrawal from it I want to be back on it. It's the only anti-depressant that has ever "worked" on me, and I've been on too-many to remember.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #24032964 - 01/23/17 10:47 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.



Good points. I hadn't considered the idea that enough decades haven't passed to see the real downsides of antibiotics in the long term when I made the post either. Downsides aside, they have increased mortality quite a bit and it would be needless to not trust them if you have a bad infection.




Antibiotics is a very good example as to why one should use caution with medicine. Yes they are miracle drugs. But using them when they're not needed is a huge problem. Using them long term is a massive problem for both an individual and a society.


And for decades it was hailed as miracle drugs, as near cure alls, without regard to the potential long term consequences.


Which is also why I personally don't trust new drugs and I'd put my "safe or not" time period as a little over 50 years and thousands of patients. There's a good chance that if there is serious long term consequences for an individual it will develop within 40-50 years and beyond that, say causing Alzheimer's in one's late 70s, I don't really care cuz we're all supposed to start dying a little after our 60s anyway.



As far as this drug class specifically, the least understood and most important organ in the entire human body is the brain. And these treatments and potential consequences come from theory, not long term studies than represent truth. There are very few chemicals you can manipulate in the brain and not run the risk of seriously fucking something up. Especially when everyone's brain chemistry varies and there's no way to determine what will happen to someone unless they just take the drug.

Some people have no side effects.
Some people get nausea or diarrhea.
Some people have seizures and die.

And how they react long term can vary as well. Demographic body chemistry differences puts African Americans at higher risk for hypertension and Caucasian Americans at higher risk for skin cancer. Manipulating certain chemicals in the body can dramatically increase the chances of developing a predisposed disease like that.

I think unwillingness to appropriately survey an individual and accurately gauge risk is the biggest flaw in modern medicine right now.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Re: Gabapentin and Pregabalin may cause serious brain deterioration, also possibly birth defects [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24046949 - 01/28/17 04:51 PM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
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PatrickKn said:
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musiclover420 said:
Not to mention modern antibiotics have their downsides too such as being indiscriminate and killing many beneficial organisms in the body that can take a while to replenish.



Good points. I hadn't considered the idea that enough decades haven't passed to see the real downsides of antibiotics in the long term when I made the post either. Downsides aside, they have increased mortality quite a bit and it would be needless to not trust them if you have a bad infection.




Antibiotics is a very good example as to why one should use caution with medicine. Yes they are miracle drugs. But using them when they're not needed is a huge problem. Using them long term is a massive problem for both an individual and a society.


And for decades it was hailed as miracle drugs, as near cure alls, without regard to the potential long term consequences.


Which is also why I personally don't trust new drugs and I'd put my "safe or not" time period as a little over 50 years and thousands of patients. There's a good chance that if there is serious long term consequences for an individual it will develop within 40-50 years and beyond that, say causing Alzheimer's in one's late 70s, I don't really care cuz we're all supposed to start dying a little after our 60s anyway.



As far as this drug class specifically, the least understood and most important organ in the entire human body is the brain. And these treatments and potential consequences come from theory, not long term studies than represent truth. There are very few chemicals you can manipulate in the brain and not run the risk of seriously fucking something up. Especially when everyone's brain chemistry varies and there's no way to determine what will happen to someone unless they just take the drug.
I think unwillingness to appropriately survey an individual and accurately gauge risk is the biggest flaw in modern medicine right now.




Good post.

I agree, physicians who undermine clues to the individual profile that is the patient are foolish and poor clinicians.

Food for thought- my hard to tame HBP was caused by heavy antibiotic prescribing from when I got sick last year.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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