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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: qman]
#24031638 - 01/22/17 07:28 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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qman said:
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PatrickKn said:
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Hes under no obligation to release them and you have no business asking for them.
Nonsense, he holds the highest public office in the United States, and is answerable to the people. People have a right to know if his money appears clean to the IRS.
Are you suggesting the IRS isn't going its job? If his money wasn't "clean", that's an issue for the IRS.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm not even suggesting that Trumps money is dirty - I'm sure he's well within his legal boundaries. I just see a pretty clear parallel to Obama's birth certificate and Trumps tax returns, and having your staff announce that you're not going to release them after making promises that it was eventually coming (and even mentioning it during debates) should be a ding against him, not a opening for people to rush to his defense - in my mind.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24031651 - 01/22/17 07:33 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: what's it gonna say, he makes more or less than he claims, he pays more or less than one would expect, he gives more or less in charitable donation but let's say he decided to release those tax returns and he earns exactly what he claimed, his gives what he said he did and he pays a reasonable amount in taxes, will the dumbasses that are calling him hitler stop calling him hitler, will they suddenly jump on the trump train? will racheal madcow choke on a used tampon? will TYT finally pull their collective heads out of their asses and will progressives actually give the man a chance?
Give the man a chance is what I've been telling people in person, because like it or not he's our president. Giving him a chance is not giving him a free ride to neglect the things he was elected to do (or better yet, to represent) however.
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Prisoner#1 said: dont you think the media would have been all over it if trump had his records sealed?
Sure enough.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: PatrickKn]
#24031668 - 01/22/17 07:37 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Except the birth certificate issue was about him being an America citizen, which is a legal requirement for holding the presidential position. He had an actual obligation to provide documentation in that instance and when he did release it it turned out to be forged, so if you wanna split hairs then Obamas entire presidency was illigitimate and the two terms he ran are the single greatest con of all time.
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qman
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: PatrickKn]
#24031677 - 01/22/17 07:40 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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PatrickKn said:
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qman said:
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PatrickKn said:
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Hes under no obligation to release them and you have no business asking for them.
Nonsense, he holds the highest public office in the United States, and is answerable to the people. People have a right to know if his money appears clean to the IRS.
Are you suggesting the IRS isn't going its job? If his money wasn't "clean", that's an issue for the IRS.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm not even suggesting that Trumps money is dirty - I'm sure he's well within his legal boundaries. I just see a pretty clear parallel to Obama's birth certificate and Trumps tax returns, and having your staff announce that you're not going to release them after making promises that it was eventually coming (and even mentioning it during debates) should be a ding against him, not a opening for people to rush to his defense - in my mind.
I also have issue with his broken promise, he shouldn't have said he was going to release them in the first place.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: qman]
#24031699 - 01/22/17 07:48 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Does it bother you at all that he straight up lied when he said HE WOULD release his tax returns?
Would you be that forgiving of a democrat that told a similar lie?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: PatrickKn]
#24031714 - 01/22/17 07:50 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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PatrickKn said: Give the man a chance is what I've been telling people in person, because like it or not he's our president. Giving him a chance is not giving him a free ride to neglect the things he was elected to do (or better yet, to represent) however.
it seems trump's battle will be all uphill and no matter how well he does he will always be treated as he is now by the media and in turn by the people. the media is fiction, they need a villain so they can make someone else the hero, we've seen it over the last 8 years with "the republicans are blocking..."
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24031718 - 01/22/17 07:51 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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KauaiOrca said: Does it bother you at all that he straight up lied when he said HE WOULD release his tax returns?
what date did he say he would release them?
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#24031720 - 01/22/17 07:52 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Except the birth certificate issue was about him being an America citizen, which is a legal requirement for holding the presidential position. He had an actual obligation to provide documentation in that instance and when he did release it it turned out to be forged, so if you wanna split hairs then Obamas entire presidency was illigitimate and the two terms he ran are the single greatest con of all time.
the birth certificate wasnt forged
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#24031723 - 01/22/17 07:52 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Except the birth certificate issue was about him being an America citizen, which is a legal requirement for holding the presidential position. He had an actual obligation to provide documentation in that instance and when he did release it it turned out to be forged, so if you wanna split hairs then Obamas entire presidency was illigitimate and the two terms he ran are the single greatest con of all time.
I don't know the specifics on the idea of his certificate as a forgery, but Obama's presidency was practically bought by banks that he helped 'prop up' at the heels of the recession when he was both starting his campaign and was also quickly becoming the most influential democratic senator in office at the time because of it. McCain got large contributions from the same entities and ensured his party followed suit as well.
Regardless of whether he's foreign born or not, I'd say there were enough red flags for his presidency before even having been elected through contributions alone. But that's the presidency for you. I'm hoping Trump is different, time may tell.
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qman
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24031749 - 01/22/17 08:00 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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KauaiOrca said: Does it bother you at all that he straight up lied when he said HE WOULD release his tax returns?
Would you be that forgiving of a democrat that told a similar lie?
Yes, the fact that he did changed his position on it after specifically saying he would release it is problematic.
This comes down to a credibility issue, is this going to erode his credibility with his supporters down the road? Time will tell.
I have no issue being critical of Trump as US President, in fact I'll be even more critical of Trump than I was of Obama, I had very low expectations of Obama, so I didn't find his incompetency as surprising.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24031839 - 01/22/17 08:29 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Except the birth certificate issue was about him being an America citizen, which is a legal requirement for holding the presidential position. He had an actual obligation to provide documentation in that instance and when he did release it it turned out to be forged, so if you wanna split hairs then Obamas entire presidency was illigitimate and the two terms he ran are the single greatest con of all time.
the birth certificate wasnt forged
Sheriff says otherwise 
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/sheriff-joe-arpaio-to-talk-obama-birth-certificate-investigation
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24031884 - 01/22/17 08:40 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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Enjoywho said: We aren't a democracy we are a Republic. At state level sure democracy. I think the majority of people didn't pay attention in high school government class.
We are not a democracy.
I didn't say we ARE a democracy. What I said is democracy, as a principle of government, works better with transparency. And certainly, our Republic utilizes a lot of democracy oriented principles ... like voting for instance, for a peaceful transfer of power.
So because we elect them than they no longer have the right to have any sort of privacy? Ya fuck that.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#24031894 - 01/22/17 08:46 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Except the birth certificate issue was about him being an America citizen, which is a legal requirement for holding the presidential position. He had an actual obligation to provide documentation in that instance and when he did release it it turned out to be forged, so if you wanna split hairs then Obamas entire presidency was illigitimate and the two terms he ran are the single greatest con of all time.
Bingo. But being a senator and than in the presidential election I'm sure that they have much more requirements for even applying for those positions.
Fuck I lost my wallet that had my ID and ss card in it. As a us born citizen it took me weeks to get my paperwork back. I didn't exist as a person. That bc shit was a joke. If anyone asked me for how much I make or my hourly wage. My tax return ID be offended and mine are benign as fuck. That's just rude.
For everyone that's asking to see his post yours in the pub. Won't do it will you? That's personal information. I'm waiting.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
Edited by Enjoywho (01/22/17 08:51 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#24032197 - 01/22/17 11:21 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Bodhi of Ankou said: Except the birth certificate issue was about him being an America citizen, which is a legal requirement for holding the presidential position. He had an actual obligation to provide documentation in that instance and when he did release it it turned out to be forged, so if you wanna split hairs then Obamas entire presidency was illigitimate and the two terms he ran are the single greatest con of all time.
the birth certificate wasnt forged
Sheriff says otherwise 
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/sheriff-joe-arpaio-to-talk-obama-birth-certificate-investigation
ah yes... a sheriff says otherwise
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24032218 - 01/22/17 11:37 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Puts you at a bit of an ideological impasse now dont it?
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#24032226 - 01/22/17 11:46 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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nope. holding a position of power doesnt mean they cant be a conspiracy nutter
will sheriff joe be releasing the data he gathered during the 'investigation'?
all I see so far is that investigation consisted of a post on infowars where someone rubber stamped FAKE across a laser printed image of the obama birth certificate
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24032231 - 01/22/17 11:49 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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I was so close
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#24032237 - 01/22/17 11:55 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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So when its sheriffs gunning down blacks in the inner cities everything they say gets a free pass but if they say something about the government conspiring behind closed doors suddenly you need third party verification and a blood sample. Interesting.
Well he has that, in this case anyways. The document they posted on the whitehouse website for download opened up as layers in photoshop. They even found the document that he copied it from as part of their five year long investigation they did on it. They did a press release on it, if you wanna watch it come from the sheriff directly.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#24032504 - 01/23/17 04:56 AM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Well he has that, in this case anyways. The document they posted on the whitehouse website for download opened up as layers in photoshop. They even found the document that he copied it from as part of their five year long investigation they did on it. They did a press release on it, if you wanna watch it come from the sheriff directly.
IF this is the case, then Trump should direct the FBI to do a thorough forensics study on it and release the findings. If Trump doesn't do this, then you have him to blame for it. I find it all highly unlikely. If it is the case and it can be proven, it should be.
It's in Trump's hands now. He has the power and the resources to make his case. If he doesn't, he's condoning fraud.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Michael Moore is firing up a hostile take over of the Democratic Party... [Re: qman] 1
#24032508 - 01/23/17 05:00 AM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Does it bother you at all that he straight up lied when he said HE WOULD release his tax returns?
Would you be that forgiving of a democrat that told a similar lie?
Yes, the fact that he did changed his position on it after specifically saying he would release it is problematic.
This comes down to a credibility issue, is this going to erode his credibility with his supporters down the road? Time will tell.
I have no issue being critical of Trump as US President, in fact I'll be even more critical of Trump than I was of Obama, I had very low expectations of Obama, so I didn't find his incompetency as surprising.
I pretty much agree with all of this and am hoping Trump will turn out to be a great president. He needs to realize that when he is blatantly dishonest, the press will be a lot harder on him.
The press gave Obama a lot of leeway when it came to dishonesty and ducking from answering questions. They won't do that with Trump. I think Trump has a lot of potential to actually focus on issues that never get sustained attention. Obama, as far as I'm concerned, was a big step backwards on many fronts.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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