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graceful dragon
omni-love



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what do you make of this Hawking quote?
#24019421 - 01/18/17 09:16 AM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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..
'Both observer and observed are parts of the world that has an objective existence, and any distinction between them has no meaningful significance. In other words, if you see a herd of zebras fighting for a spot in the parking garage, it is because there really is a herd of zebras fighting for a spot in the parking garage.'
Was he onto something? or just being a cooky scientist?
solipsism, or..?
and how do you integrate it with your other wisdom/experience?
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yeah



Registered: 02/08/09
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I honestly don't get what he's saying
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do it
Master of temporary solutions



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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: yeah]
#24019636 - 01/18/17 10:50 AM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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I'd say he's trying to convey the message that tangible and measurable things are what's real, like most scientists. I don't know about that solipsism, MAYBE, but I'm leaning more to believing he meant it from a mainstream scientist point of view with anything observable being real.
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sprinkles
otd president


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when I read that it makes me think of truth and reality. its so critically important. it doesnt matter what perception you have or which way you look at it. It's true, factual reality i guess. thats what i understand anyway, which aint much
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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He was referring to quantum measurement, whereby observer and observed are one interdependent unit that cannot be separated. He is implying that once you observe something, you have a fundamental connection to it. He is also arguing for realism, stating that objects have an independent existence -- but not fully independent, because we can only meaningfully speak about that existence upon observation.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: sprinkles]
#24019745 - 01/18/17 11:42 AM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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Outside of your perception is a REAL world, made of atoms. I think he's trying to say it's not all an illusion, but by doing that he has already opposed the opposite. We can see through quantum physics there is no reality without an observer, but it's a duality, there is also no observer without a Reality.
There is no set truth, facts and statistics are somewhat meaningless in an ever changing world of flux.
The outside world is real, meaning it would exist without our awareness of it, but our awareness is also non-real meaning the outside world only exists through means of our compartmentalization to comprehend and project what is "real" we are the ones which give meaning
We are the ones that emerge order from Chaos.
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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Green7Alchemist
Draco



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Posts: 2,171
Loc: Mayami
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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#24019856 - 01/18/17 12:36 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: He was referring to quantum measurement, whereby observer and observed are one interdependent unit that cannot be separated. He is implying that once you observe something, you have a fundamental connection to it. He is also arguing for realism, stating that objects have an independent existence -- but not fully independent, because we can only meaningfully speak about that existence upon observation.
but also has anyone ever thought that steven hawking was abducted by mainstream science as their poster child, he could make a great point on why God does not exist, he's a veggie in a chair... and for all i know those are not his real thoughts and words being transmitted through that computer, could be some one else. i like watching his videos and seeing his mannerisms
-------------------- Trip 7 THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE streets disciple CHRIST IS KING. Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"
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sprinkles
otd president


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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: Eclipse3130]
#24019905 - 01/18/17 12:54 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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hmm..... you sunk my battleship.
whether i had one or not is irrelevant. I said it, so that in itself makes it a factual and true. LOL
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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I can't help but find Hawking to be a bit of a boar.
warning: graphic not for the feint of heart.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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graceful dragon
omni-love



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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: sprinkles]
#24020290 - 01/18/17 02:58 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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I'm really pleased with this thread, it's really cool; thanks everybody.
Especially Eclipse, and you opened the door for me, in a sense - I was going to post this quote after fourth post, anyway it's cool 
I especially like the first line - ever the poet-
'How to put simply that which is not a simple thing...? Solipsism, I suppose, is where we have to begin—the notion that nothing exists but the self, or, at least, that we cannot truly be aware of anything but our own existence and experience. I can find, somewhere, off in Shadow, anything I can visualize. Any of us can. This, in good faith, does not transcend the limits of the ego. It may be argued, and in fact has, by most of us, that we create the shadows we visit out of the stuff of our own psyches, that we alone truly exist, that the shadows we traverse are but projections of our own desires.... Whatever the merits of this argument, and there are several, it does go far toward explaining much of the family's attitude toward people, places, and things outside of Amber. Namely, we are toymakers and they, our playthings—sometimes dangerously animated, to be sure; but this, too, is part of the game. We are impresarios by temperament, and we treat one another accordingly. While solipsism does tend to leave one slightly embarrassed on questions of etiology, one can easily avoid the embarrassment by refusing to admit the validity of the questions. Most of us are, as I have often observed, almost entirely pragmatic in the conduct of our affairs. Almost...
Yet—yet there is a disturbing element in the picture. There is a place where the shadows go mad.... When you purposely push yourself through layer after layer of Shadow, surrendering—again, purposely—a piece of your understanding every step of the way, you come at last to a mad place beyond which you cannot go. Why do this? In hope of an insight, I'd say, or a new game ... But when you come to this place, as we all have, you realize that you have reached the limit of Shadow or the end of yourself—synonymous terms, as we had always thought. Now, though... Now I know that it is not so, now as I stand, waiting, without the Courts of Chaos, telling you what it was like, I know that it is not so.'
(book 3, Ch.10)
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Amber
and earlier in the timeline (book 2, Ch. 1)
'Amber casts an infinity of shadows. A child of Amber may walk among them, and such was my heritage. You may call them parallel worlds if you wish, alternate universes if you would, the products of a deranged mind if you care to. I call them shadows, as do all who possess the power to walk among them. We select a possibility and we walk until we reach it. So, in a sense, we create it. Let’s leave it at that for now.'
A lot of similar, good discussions throughout it... Great series.
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graceful dragon
omni-love



Registered: 04/20/15
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sadly, it's chopped up a bit -- that, not referring to your video, LE.
heh
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
graceful dragon said: sadly, it's chopped up a bit -- that, not referring to your video, LE.
heh
Don't mince words.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Green7Alchemist
Draco



Registered: 12/28/16
Posts: 2,171
Loc: Mayami
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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#24020325 - 01/18/17 03:06 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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it seems to me he doesnt have mushroom for improvement
-------------------- Trip 7 THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE streets disciple CHRIST IS KING. Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Solipsists should meet outside world more frequently, but of course they always can argue it away
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: graceful dragon] 1
#24021147 - 01/18/17 07:36 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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I do believe existence itself in a physical, global, planetary and galactic sense is real, meaning it would remain if we are not.
Where people get confused is their own projections unto the physical world, yes we are the creator of OUR projected reality, but not The Creator, and I think that stands out pretty clearly in most situations. Reality has a funny way of knocking on your front door
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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graceful dragon
omni-love



Registered: 04/20/15
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Re: what do you make of this Hawking quote? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#24021494 - 01/18/17 09:41 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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Peyote Road
Stranger

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According to his logic, if I see an entity, spirit or angel it means there really are entities, spirits and angels (something which is quite obvious to me, but perhaps not accepted by most scientists).
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
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wolfiewolfie
Just wingin' it.


Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 2,177
Loc: Australia
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'Both observer and observed' -The observer being your mind which you observe everything from, observed being everything outside of you, the physical, which you observe
'are parts of the world that has an objective existence, and any distinction between them has no meaningful significance.' - there is no difference between the mind and the physical
'In other words, if you see a herd of zebras fighting for a spot in the parking garage, it is because there really is a herd of zebras fighting for a spot in the parking garage.'
-anything that you can imagine in your mind, no matter how bizarre, is just as real as the physical world around you
To summarise, what I think he is trying to say is; All is one.
Maybe? Haha
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The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all. My Drawings
Edited by wolfiewolfie (01/19/17 06:17 AM)
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
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Quote:
proth said:
Free-will indeed gives you the capability to live in la-la land..

I love la-la land. la la land is my land, la-la land is your land.
fuck people living in la-la land
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