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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Casing high PH
    #24018550 - 01/17/17 09:13 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

I feel like I made my casing layer too alkaline for my kings.

I was messing around with a 100% peatmoss mix

I did a ratio of

10 cups peatmoss
1 cup gypsum
1 cup Hydrated lime

I feel like it should be more 1/4 to 1/2 cup hydrated lime.

I know verm is recommend but it is rather expensive here. I would rather have a 100% peat to 50/50

Anyone have 100% peat experience? Can't seem to find a decent right up on the forums about it.

Should have gotten a digtal soil PH tester when I was in the store today. I would like one that could test soil and water.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
Farmer


Registered: 10/06/14
Posts: 309
Re: Casing high PH [Re: vatman]
    #24018624 - 01/17/17 09:49 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Here ya go mate.
Chef used hydrated lime and peat for his casing and had great results.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17791781#17791781


Edited by MycoFlora (01/17/17 09:51 PM)


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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Re: Casing high PH [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24018763 - 01/17/17 11:12 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

My math is a little wanky with ratios

So I did 10:1:1

So lime being one of the 1s would it be 1/12=0.0833333

So I used 8.33% lime by volume?


Seems like a high rate for hydrated lime but chef said he has used up to 25%.
It feels a little chalky still after hydrating. Didn't bother doing a true pasteurization did a 170F pour into the peat moss.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
Farmer


Registered: 10/06/14
Posts: 309
Re: Casing high PH [Re: vatman]
    #24018929 - 01/18/17 12:48 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Aside from chef,
The general consensus seems to be about 1% for hydrated lime.
So that's about 1 cup per 5 gallons of peat.


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OfflineFerather
Mycological
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Casing high PH [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24019250 - 01/18/17 07:12 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Without the meter most attempts will be folly. Peat Moss has an acidic pH, generally in the range of 4.4 -- Source

Its as acidic as tea leaves, you need to measure, you want pH 7.5-8 for a casing.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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Offlinedrake89
Mushroom Magnate
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Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Casing high PH [Re: Ferather]
    #24019322 - 01/18/17 08:21 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Most commercial ops skip the lime and just use limestone.  That and heat treatment might not hurt.  But yeah, it's supplosed to be near neutral pH.  Mushroom mycelium will not grow in an alkaline environment.


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Re: Casing high PH [Re: drake89]
    #24019838 - 01/18/17 12:29 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

So would you recommend removing that casing?


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InvisibleMycoFlora
Farmer


Registered: 10/06/14
Posts: 309
Re: Casing high PH [Re: drake89]
    #24019861 - 01/18/17 12:38 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

I have a hard time believing mycelium won't grow in an alkaline environment. When I did lime past. my entire sub was soaked in a highly basic lime solution. The ph would sometimes be as high as 13-14. Colonized in two weeks with no problems.
Drake, I know you used to run with lime, what's the difference here?


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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Re: Casing high PH [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24020010 - 01/18/17 01:34 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Also a follow-up to flora's question if limestone or oyster shell is used is heat pasteurization required?

My casing feels a little chalky so thinking it should be removed and remixed with more peat and water.


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Offlinedrake89
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Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Casing high PH [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24020065 - 01/18/17 01:50 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
I have a hard time believing mycelium won't grow in an alkaline environment. When I did lime past. my entire sub was soaked in a highly basic lime solution. The ph would sometimes be as high as 13-14. Colonized in two weeks with no problems.
Drake, I know you used to run with lime, what's the difference here?



he was talking about adding a 10% w/w hydrated lime.  I don't think the peat or mycelium will be able to get that back to neutral.  with straw bathing, the base eventually degrades back to calcium carbonate i believe.  the straw and mycelium help a little bit but it's mostly basic chemical rxn.  which is partly why you want a colder water bath.

When the masonry has been laid, the slaked lime in the mortar slowly begins to react with carbon dioxide to form calcium carbonate (limestone) according to the reaction: Ca(OH)2 + CO2 → CaCO3 + H2O. The carbon dioxide that takes part in this reaction is principally available in the air or dissolved in rainwate


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


Edited by drake89 (01/18/17 01:53 PM)


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OfflineFerather
Mycological
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Casing high PH [Re: drake89]
    #24020354 - 01/18/17 03:16 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

:whathesaid:

Some acidic materials will breakdown to higher pH, they either re-assemble or become smaller detached units.
Also molds have a very hard time germinating the higher the pH, 7.5-8 makes it very difficult.

I agree with calcium carbonate, powdered or as a grit, as "drake89" mentions.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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