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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Trough Steamer * 1
    #24014175 - 01/16/17 09:49 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

So I finally had enough of loading and I unloading my 941's and 75x's. I'd been trying to convert this trough I had into a steamer but had trouble coming up with a decent steam generator aka I ran out of money for the project. Then it hit me, I already have two electric steam generators, my 75x's!
I'm sure I will catch some crap for this, but so far it is working very well.



At full capacity I can fit 50 5lb bags in the trough. For the 75x's I am using my 941 lids because the steam outlets fit perfectly with my 1/2" pex pipe. Attached with some simple pipe clamps. The pex is just run straight through the lid of the steamer, which is a thick rubber stable mat.
I have a temp probe sandwiched in the middle of the bags.
So far, it looks like it's going to be about 13-14hours to reach 206f at the core, so im looking at a 26-28 hour steam. Once the cook is done I'll just be rolling the whole unit into the lab to cool.
This not really an original idea and I'm not advocating anyone purchasing 75x's as a steam generator/boiler, everything I used is just what I already had on hand. I do plan on building a separate boiler soon, but for now I'm going to make these work.
Open for critique to all.

-scott


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24015262 - 01/16/17 04:39 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

:aweohyou:
How full are you running those cookers with water? Any risk of them running dry?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: poofterFroth]
    #24015286 - 01/16/17 04:55 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I can say for certain that it's a bastard trying to replace the elements on those 75x.  The wiring is mostly soldered and you have to take it almost totally apart to change the elements.  Given that you're going to burn them out sooner or later, you should get a boiler barrel sooner rather than later.  Then they take about 10 minutes to replace for $10 instead of 3 hours and $40.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: drake89]
    #24015764 - 01/16/17 08:10 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

filled both them all the way to the brim, so that's like 20 gallons +/-. Once I got it up to 200f I refilled them. still had about a 1/3 of the water left so I refilled them with hot water back to the brim for the final 12 hours. Got back up to temp in no time.

drake,
That's my main concern is overworking the elements, but since this is a temporary fix i think it will make due for now.I am working on the external boiler as we speak, but money is tight (when is it not?:tongue:)
With a 5kw element in a 55 gallon tank I shouldn't need a float valve if I just top the barrel off every batch right?
Probably just going to swap out my pc parts for the psi regulator and gauge as well.
Running at 0 psi, but safety first and all that jazz.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24016326 - 01/17/17 12:18 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

You stole my idea form three month's ago
Keep it running


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
Re: Trough Steamer [Re: tump]
    #24016340 - 01/17/17 12:26 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Nice build! This gives me inspiration to use the probes I bought.
I've been thinking about doing something similar with an old cooler and my PC.

I'm glad you touched on re-filling, that's something I was unsure about thinking it over.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #24017719 - 01/17/17 03:29 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Ive been pondering a similar idea, with a hole cut in the center then have a 15 gal keg flipped with the bottom cut open and a 2k element and a 100 gal oval stock tank with a fabricated lid. Have a tri clover fitting on the bottom of the keg to drain after use and prevent element mineralization and hard water build-up. Have the trough up on stands so the bottom is level with the top of the keg then make a flase bottom to distribute the steam evenly. That or do a raised false bottom,  loose some capacity and have with one float valve and and 2 1k elements.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Gr0wer]
    #24017927 - 01/17/17 05:00 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks fellas.

It honestly took way too long to heat up for my taste, though. I think next run I'm going to route steam from my 941 until it gets the core to 200, then switch to the 75x's on full blast. The 941 sits on top of a 220,000 btu burner, so it will definitely cut my heat up time down. That thing could power a fucking rocket to the moon.

unloading the first batch and cooling in front of the hoods.I was pleasantly surprised by how well they 'sealed'.



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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Gr0wer]
    #24018475 - 01/17/17 08:31 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Intelligentxfruit said:
Nice build! This gives me inspiration to use the probes I bought.
I've been thinking about doing something similar with an old cooler and my PC.

I'm glad you touched on re-filling, that's something I was unsure about thinking it over.




It's definitely possible!
This isnt really the most efficient set up, but it just highlights working with what you've got wherever you are.
If you did try something like that, try to mount it I underneath your box with a line for your condensate to return like grOwer is talking about.
I'm still tossing ideas around to figure out a condensate return. It would probably eliminate the need to refill the boiler. It had at least 20 gallons in the bottom of the tank at thw end of the run.


Quote:

Gr0wer said:
Ive been pondering a similar idea, with a hole cut in the center then have a 15 gal keg flipped with the bottom cut open and a 2k element and a 100 gal oval stock tank with a fabricated lid. Have a tri clover fitting on the bottom of the keg to drain after use and prevent element mineralization and hard water build-up. Have the trough up on stands so the bottom is level with the top of the keg then make a flase bottom to distribute the steam evenly. That or do a raised false bottom,  loose some capacity and have with one float valve and and 2 1k elements.



how long does it normally take you to get to 200f with a 2000w element?
Both the 75x's running is over 3,000w and it took like 14-15 hours!


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24018653 - 01/17/17 10:06 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

With my single drum 55 gal and 1500w with about 230 lbs in it takes 12 hours for the top bag to hit 205 which is boiling at my elevation. I havent measured the 85 gal witk 2k and 330 lbs but were seeing no contams with a 24 hour total cook. I hope to measure it when i get back next month and hopefully reduce cook time, saving a few bucks per run.


Edited by Gr0wer (01/17/17 10:07 PM)


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Gr0wer]
    #24021582 - 01/18/17 10:28 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)



Diagram of my concept, You would either need a gasket on the lip of the keg, sealing it against the bottom of the trough or have it welded from the outside then use silicone sealant on the inside.

My typical float valve, element setup with a tri clover bottom drain valve to empty after cycle is complete. This design would allow for condensate to collect back in the keg, avoiding any puddling. Stainless steel false bottom to help distribute steam. SS lid would be hinged on the back side and have a rubber seal. Whole thing would get a good layer of foam insulation and great stuff to seal it up. Exhaust vents would be on the far ends of the lid to promote even steam distribution. Should fit around 400 lbs of sub im sure. Total cost wouldn't be too bad since the trough is only $90 and the kegs are free or maybe $30 if you need to pick one off craigslist.


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy


Registered: 01/06/13
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Gr0wer]
    #24021671 - 01/18/17 11:14 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

I almost responded with this when I asked about the location of the probes until I re-read the op.

But I was thinking of how your 55 uses an internal element with a feed tube and I wasn't sure by your discription if this was along the lines of what you were describing.
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I said earlier I'd try to post some pictures of my current setup.  It's only temporary until the snow melts and the ground gets thawed out. I plan to build a gravel pad and pole barn type roof over the area.

The first thing to look for when getting drums is that they're not toxic.  My green barrel, which is the boiler, originally contained olive oil, and the blue barrels all had pear juice concentrate.


With this setup, I chose the barrel with the threaded caps as the boiler.  I left the original 2" cap in place to use for filling, and replaced the 3/4" cap with a 3/4" black iron pipe nipple feeding Ts and two gate valves.  The bottom valve feeds the sterilizer above and the second valve is for future use for an additional sterilizer drum.  The blue barrel next to the green boiler drum is for pasteurizing straw.  The propane burner can be slid under either drum.


The shelves were simply welded together from 1" angle iron, and the hardware cloth was tied on with steel tie wire.  The re-bar and angle iron welded to the bottom shelf supports the top one.  I insert jar rings in between each and every bag to allow steam to reach all six sides.  Tyvek wrist sleeves are inserted into the bags as shown in my video to allow venting during sterilization, and to prevent the entry of contaminants as the bags cool and before they are removed to the clean room for inoculation.  The bags are folded such that steam pressure can vent from within the bag, but as the bag cools, it pulls a vacuum around the tyvek sleeve.  A second piece of hardware cloth is put over the top to keep the bags folded, with angle iron above that for weight.


I pre-heat the boiler as I'm loading the sterilizer so steam is usually starting to flow just as it's full.  The black iron elbow welded to the sterilizer is at the low point, so the condensation drains back by gravity against the flow of steam to the boiler.  With this setup, I can easily do a 12 hour sterilization run without running dry.  I've been timing 8 hours past the time steam begins to vent from the small valve on the top of the sterilizer barrel.  I'm sterilizing in 10F weather, so really have to wrap the boiler and sterilizer well with insulation to keep the heat in.  It may not look pretty, but it sterilizes 24 six pound supplemented sawdust blocks at a time.





Just for the design, however I think I remember you mentioning something about the volume of water being less efficient than a feed tube. Which makes sense


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Offlinetump
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #24021768 - 01/19/17 12:31 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Or hell why stop with one trough. Why not just hook up like four or six together with each there own water source and 1500 w heater element in each one after it with a pipe to release the got almost steam water for the last trough to the next one. 400 lbs of subs sounds nice but hell 1600lbs or 2400lbs is even better.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: tump]
    #24022125 - 01/19/17 06:54 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

tump said:
Or hell why stop with one trough. Why not just hook up like four or six together with each there own water source and 1500 w heater element in each one after it with a pipe to release the got almost steam water for the last trough to the next one. 400 lbs of subs sounds nice but hell 1600lbs or 2400lbs is even better.



that's why I have a shack instead of 6 big troughs.  my shack is cheaper than 6 troughs and I don't have to bend over to load/unload every run.  hell, I know big time farmers that steam under blankets on pallets!  Granted, they have really big boilers...


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: drake89]
    #24022223 - 01/19/17 08:17 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Intelegentxfruit, no im using the single drum design ive been perfecting. Check out my youtube, i have a recent video about my 55.


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Invisibleflyontoast
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: drake89]
    #24022339 - 01/19/17 09:03 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
that's why I have a shack instead of 6 big troughs.  my shack is cheaper than 6 troughs and I don't have to bend over to load/unload every run.  hell, I know big time farmers that steam under blankets on pallets!  Granted, they have really big boilers...




Have you got pictures and design notes posted somewhere? Sounds badass.


--------------------
:mushroom: My trade list :mushroom:
Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment:
Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors.
Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains.
Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us  :skol:


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: flyontoast]
    #24023233 - 01/19/17 03:23 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

yea he does, search his name and shed


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Gr0wer]
    #24023475 - 01/19/17 05:13 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

you can also look at my photo album


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Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


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Invisibleflyontoast
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: drake89]
    #24023553 - 01/19/17 05:42 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Thanks guys, found the thread if anyone else is interested:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23354818/fpart/1/vc/1


--------------------
:mushroom: My trade list :mushroom:
Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment:
Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors.
Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains.
Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us  :skol:


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: flyontoast]
    #24023584 - 01/19/17 05:51 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Very interesting, that thing is a beast :strokebeard:


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #24025053 - 01/20/17 08:51 AM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Yea drakes steam shed is a mushroom farmers wet dream, but a bit large for my scale!
I don't think I would consider using something that big until I was growing 200-300lbs/week.
You need a steamer/sterilizer that is commensurate to the scale of your operation.
And I'm pretty sure that thing costs at least $250/month to run. So don't go rush out to build one if you're making like 50-100 bags a week:tongue:


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24029272 - 01/21/17 10:07 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Update on the steamer-
First batch was a success with 0 contaminated bags! Woohoo!

But the run time was far too long at about 28 hours.
Managed to cut the total runtime down to 18 hours. cut the heat up time in half using the propane burner to get up to temp. 6 hours heat up. 12 to sterilize.


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24029320 - 01/21/17 10:38 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Congrats on the first successful run! Are you making your sub with hot water?  This saved me some time on the mix and steam run.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MorePies]
    #24029429 - 01/21/17 11:51 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Thanks man!
Yea use hot water when I mix. The temp probe says it's around 80-90F when it's loaded so I'm sure that gives me a nice head start.


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24029850 - 01/22/17 08:22 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Nice update. Wow 10 hrs heat time is quite the difference, that's some major improvement.:thumbup:

Hydrate with hot water:takingnotes:


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Offlinepoponon
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #24029856 - 01/22/17 08:24 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

congrats on it working so well! I've got to build a similar sized sterilizer eventually. So i take it you switched to the 941 to use as a steamer with your propane burner? very cool build


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24030170 - 01/22/17 10:38 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
Thanks man!
Yea use hot water when I mix. The temp probe says it's around 80-90F when it's loaded so I'm sure that gives me a nice head start.




I had a feeling that you already had that figured out :smile: .  I might have missed the post or picture,  but are there any racks between the bags?


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: poponon]
    #24030763 - 01/22/17 02:42 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

poponon said:
congrats on it working so well! I've got to build a similar sized sterilizer eventually. So i take it you switched to the 941 to use as a steamer with your propane burner? very cool build



Yea I just use my burner and one 941 to heat up, once it gets to about 180F I start the 75x's to heat them up. then when it hits 200F I switch it over to the 75x's which are already heated up at that point.

Morepies-
I use wire shelf racks from some old mini greenhouses. They don't really put that much space between the bags but they make sure they stay folded.I also leave a lot of room on the trough and between the bags so the heat will penetrate quicker. I wouldn't even use spacers if I had a more powerful boiler and I could fit about 25-30% more bags.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24031758 - 01/22/17 08:05 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

There is no need for spacing the bags, i pack em in 8 layers deep wall to wall in my drums. Pressure pushes steam in all the nooks and crannies. Also a long cook time with a small element allows the heat a longer time to penetrate and spread.


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InvisibleliloldmeFacebook
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: Gr0wer]
    #24037746 - 01/25/17 04:14 AM (7 years, 5 days ago)

I used spacers for over ten years and it wasn't till I got my AA75x that I actually tried it without using them. Thanks for the tip MycoFlora. so far all of my bags have colonized :woot:

I think I might buy a trough tomorrow from the feedstore. It just seems soo much cleaner than 55gallon drums at a fraction of the cost of the stainless steel barrels ones. they sell those sauna steamers like 4k-6k on Amazon for only a couple hundred bucks, are those even worth a hoot? I dont think drake likes them anymore from what I'm reading but seems others are having long-term  success.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: liloldme]
    #24038511 - 01/25/17 12:14 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

My only gripe about sauna steamers is I am not very savvy in the way of electrical work and I think you have to do some tinkering to get them to run the way you want.
I love the idea of a compact steaming unit, but at the end of the day it is way cheaper and more straight forward to just make a boiler.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Trough Steamer [Re: MycoFlora]
    #24039853 - 01/25/17 09:12 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

You can uss steel drums for my design, they just rust. And for steamer/boilers your best off just converting a 15 gal keg into a boiler with an electric element. Much easier to fix and cheaper than the sauna steamers. I intend to build the drawing i posted above this spring, all i need materials wise is a trough.


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