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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: qman]
    #24014981 - 01/16/17 03:01 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Here's one idea I had- let the corporations and government do whatever they want, manipulate currencies, ship jobs out of the US, bring in more legal and illegal workers, no minimum wage, ect.

But here's the deal, every US citizen receives a royalty check every week from the profits on the system the greedy wanted in the first place. 

So the system is now working for the citizens instead of the citizens working for the system.




Interesting.  How in the world you would know what the profits are each week on the system is a mystery.  But in theory, it's very clever.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24015072 - 01/16/17 03:33 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:


I think the answer, ultimately, is a much better system for screening and identifying better leaders before the election happens.

Seriously, the screening and testing process for a burger flipper at Mickey D's is more rigorous than what's needed to run for Congress.

I think candidates (Presidents, Senators, House Representatives and Governors) should all have to complete a thorough psychological and mental fitness test, a health test and answer, under oath a series of questions with teethy jail time if they are caught lying. 




sounds good on paper, but this seems like a system that could be easily gamed by people in positions to write the screening parameters.  It seems to me, it would be hard to backtrack once implemented since the people elected to repeal such a policy would themselves have to have passed the screening process.




All systems can be and ARE gamed including what we have now.  To make it work, we'd need a non-partisan oversite group to keep political meddling out of it and a lot of sunlight and transparency.

Our current system is rewarding the biggest most outrageous liars.  We just had an election that put two of the biggest liars with the longest track records of dishonesty into the top spots.  That's gotta change.




I agree with the principle.
I take issue with the underlined because i do not believe that such a group does or will exist; The implementation of such a policy would be inherently political by nature.  Transparency helps, but requires an electorate that cares about such things.  As American culture becomes more and more Kardashian-based, i see the prospects of such an electorate emerging as somewhat slim.


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24015091 - 01/16/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:

I agree with the principle.
I take issue with the underlined because i do not believe that such a group does or will exist; The implementation of such a policy would be inherently political by nature.  Transparency helps, but requires an electorate that cares about such things.  As American culture becomes more and more Kardashian-based, i see the prospects of such an electorate emerging as somewhat slim.




The truth is most people are not that partisan.  It's just that partisans and the extremists get all the news because they create stories and attention.  40% of all voters in this country are independents.  Independents don't have much of a voice because of the 2-party system.

It would be EASY to find a large group of reasonable and independently non-partisan people to man an independent oversite system but the 2 parties DON'T want this. 

The illusion of an ultra divided country is driven because that is where the story and narrative is ... you can't get anyone to pay attention to your story if it isn't controversial.  Stories often have little to do with truth, however.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24015249 - 01/16/17 04:34 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

To clarify, I don't think that human nature allows for the least motivated (apolitical people) to be put in charge of everything, regardless of how many political parties exist in a given system.
partisanship is probably the wrong term to describe what i mean since it implies allegiance to a party per se, while adherence to self-interest is really all that is required for a political motivation.


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Posts: 3,131
Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24015423 - 01/16/17 05:59 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
To clarify, I don't think that human nature allows for the least motivated (apolitical people) to be put in charge of everything, regardless of how many political parties exist in a given system.
partisanship is probably the wrong term to describe what i mean since it implies allegiance to a party per se, while adherence to self-interest is really all that is required for a political motivation.




Clearly, the temptation to exploit those around us for personal gain is significant and the magnet is strong.  And we know that any people on a neutral committee that makes big decisions will be tempted with huge bribes and offers from the same big boys that rig the system today.  However, I think some people are, by nature, less vulnerable to this and more resistant than others.  I think that politicians, by their nature and the campaigning process and especially fund raising, are the worst to be making decisions of this nature.

Wealth is corrupting, to be sure.  Some are more attracted to it than others, however.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24016116 - 01/16/17 10:38 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
the solution is more free market capitalism :cookiemonster:




That is correct, there is a reason the countries with the most freedom are also the wealthiest


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24016208 - 01/16/17 11:17 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Yeah, they had the right idea. I'd be all for that.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Posts: 3,131
Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #24016543 - 01/17/17 04:42 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
the solution is more free market capitalism :cookiemonster:




That is correct, there is a reason the countries with the most freedom are also the wealthiest




Except, of course, the examples of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Bahrain ... all countries with highly restricted freedoms and great wealth brought on by high ratio of valuable natural resources.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24016984 - 01/17/17 10:19 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Those countries couldn't have accessed tir resources of we didn't allow them the technology.


--------------------


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #24017779 - 01/17/17 03:54 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Lefties have most of the loot...
http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=11353


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24017909 - 01/17/17 04:50 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

I appreciate your historic reference...
I always thought it was against the monarchy/government of England( like the Coercive Acts) rather then specifically the Bank of England....you have a link for this?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24017963 - 01/17/17 05:16 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I appreciate your historic reference...
I always thought it was against the monarchy/government of England( like the Coercive Acts) rather then specifically the Bank of England....you have a link for this?




Adams wrote a lot and at some length about what was happening in the colonies.  I'm not quite sure where that exact reference is ...


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #24019724 - 01/18/17 11:35 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yeah. There are about 1,800 billionaires in the world, and about 3.5 billion people below the U.N. poverty line. More than 80% of the world live in countries in which the income differential is widening. I don't know that there is any solution to this egregiousness (there probably isn't), but shit's fucked.




There is a solution. The solution is solidarity among working people. Division seems to be winning the day though, and we are easily conquered.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #24019751 - 01/18/17 11:45 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
There is a solution. The solution is solidarity among working people. Division seems to be winning the day though, and we are easily conquered.



^^^THIS^^^

But there are a surprising number of people here fighting for the RICH to keep everything that the working people earn.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24019794 - 01/18/17 12:03 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
There is a solution. The solution is solidarity among working people. Division seems to be winning the day though, and we are easily conquered.



^^^THIS^^^

But there are a surprising number of people here fighting for the RICH to keep everything that the working people earn.




It's because they are dumb cunts. I hope I get banned again.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24020400 - 01/18/17 03:29 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
There is a solution. The solution is solidarity among working people. Division seems to be winning the day though, and we are easily conquered.



^^^THIS^^^

But there are a surprising number of people here fighting for the RICH to keep everything that the working people earn.





In my opinion.....the class warfare that both side participates in ( along with the alphabet channels) makes this impossible.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24020670 - 01/18/17 04:58 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
there are a surprising number of people here fighting for the RICH to keep everything that the working people earn.



In my opinion.....the class warfare that both side participates in ( along with the alphabet channels) makes this impossible.



I absolutely disagree.  If the middle class is ever to be restored to where it used to be, we need to restore the policies we used to have when there was a strong middle class:

- Restore the minimum wage to the 1968 level ($10.85/hr in today's dollars)
- Restore tax rates back to 1960s levels
- Restore unions (and union protections)
- Restore affordable public college
- Restore overtime protections
etc.

The rich will call this "class warfare", which has a very negative connotation, but these are the things that must get done if we are to restore our middle class.

They will use other negative terms like "redistribution of wealth", when it should really be called "restoration of wealth".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24020845 - 01/18/17 06:04 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
there are a surprising number of people here fighting for the RICH to keep everything that the working people earn.



In my opinion.....the class warfare that both side participates in ( along with the alphabet channels) makes this impossible.



I absolutely disagree.  If the middle class is ever to be restored to where it used to be, we need to restore the policies we used to have when there was a strong middle class:

- Restore the minimum wage to the 1968 level ($10.85/hr in today's dollars)
- Restore tax rates back to 1960s levels
- Restore unions (and union protections)
- Restore affordable public college
- Restore overtime protections
etc.

The rich will call this "class warfare", which has a very negative connotation, but these are the things that must get done if we are to restore our middle class.

They will use other negative terms like "redistribution of wealth", when it should really be called "restoration of wealth".




It's important for you to understand that in the post WW2 world, a lot of global manufacturing in Europe and Japan was destroyed.  The US, on the other hand, had made huge leaps forward because of the war and we were in a FANTASTIC position with an enormous head start and we had first dibs on a lot of oil fields all over the world because we knew how to get it out.

This created wildly profitable companies with enormous competitive advantages.

by the mid 70's, those competitive advantages were disappearing fast with Japanese cars, Europe really surging and cheap labor all over the planet coming online.  We began losing our quality advantage which eroded our pricing advantages and then the new global economy started rooting after Nixon's efforts (Britton Woods) and the factors that enabled the kind of tax rates in the 60's were gone.  Our economy was struggling ... interest rates soared to near 20% ...

That's when big changes started happening.  You increase taxes to 80%+ TODAY and it would absolutely destroy our economy.  Companies and wealthy people would leave like never before. 

There are answers, but the 60's are over.  We need a tax plan that incentivizes shrinking the pay gap and we need labor to have seats on the board instead of  unions.  We need better profit sharing plans and incentives and lower taxes. 

The 60's are over.  They aren't coming back.  Global competition is way too intense.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24020963 - 01/18/17 06:42 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
It's important for you to understand that in the post WW2 world, a lot of global manufacturing in Europe and Japan was destroyed.



I understand that.  That gave us a small spike in exports from 1945-1950:



Yet the middle class continued to grow for the next 30 years before the policies above were destroyed in the 80s.

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
by the mid 70's, those competitive advantages were disappearing fast with Japanese cars, Europe really surging and cheap labor all over the planet coming online.



According to the graph I just posted, exports didn't dip until the 80's.  And our GDP never took a hit, so money continued to roll in for US corporations.  It just shifted from the working class to the elite.

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
We began losing our quality advantage which eroded our pricing advantages and then the new global economy started rooting after Nixon's efforts (Britton Woods) and the factors that enabled the kind of tax rates in the 60's were gone.



We know for a fact that corporations and the rich are making more than ever today.  Why can't we tax them the same as before?  :wtf:

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Our economy was struggling ... interest rates soared to near 20% ...

That's when big changes started happening.  You increase taxes to 80%+ TODAY and it would absolutely destroy our economy.  Companies and wealthy people would leave like never before.



The US taxes its citizens regardless of where they live.  And if they want to give up their citizenship they'll have to pay a massive expatriation tax.  Why do you think they would they leave today but not in the 60's?  :wtf:

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
We need a tax plan that incentivizes shrinking the pay gap and we need labor to have seats on the board instead of  unions.



Who do you think unions represent if not labor?  :wtf:

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
We need better profit sharing plans and incentives and lower taxes.



How does lowering taxes on the super rich benefit the middle class?  :wtf:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: 8 People now have more wealth than half of the planet [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24020992 - 01/18/17 06:50 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
there are a surprising number of people here fighting for the RICH to keep everything that the working people earn.



In my opinion.....the class warfare that both side participates in ( along with the alphabet channels) makes this impossible.



I absolutely disagree.  If the middle class is ever to be restored to where it used to be, we need to restore the policies we used to have when there was a strong middle class:

- Restore the minimum wage to the 1968 level ($10.85/hr in today's dollars)
- Restore tax rates back to 1960s levels
- Restore unions (and union protections)
- Restore affordable public college
- Restore overtime protections
etc.

The rich will call this "class warfare", which has a very negative connotation, but these are the things that must get done if we are to restore our middle class.

They will use other negative terms like "redistribution of wealth", when it should really be called "restoration of wealth".




I disagree. I see a very different route. As FDR himself said, the implementation of Keynesian economic principals was the final refuge for a decaying Capitalism, on its way to collapse. If we do not start implementing a Keynesian approach (which we will not be doing), Socialism will win the day. It will either be Socialism, or years of tyrannical right-wing authoritarianism, followed by Socialism (of some unknown flavor), or a drastic decline in population and living standards by way of disease, malnutrition, etc.

If guys like Webster continue to vote for bill gate's bank account, and against Joe six pack, we will all continue to pay more dearly.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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