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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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The Dream Dreams the Dreamer
    #24012587 - 01/15/17 04:36 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I was looking for web references of a quote spoken bt Neelix on Star Trek Voyager for "The Dream Dreams the Dreamer" because I thought it was a terrific summation of much that I have recently been reading and writing here.

Neelix was quoting Legendary Wisdom from Rhinax, his home planet while the holographic Doctor was looking for guidance related to indulging in a new daydream ability he had developed.

Unfortunately, a simple web search does not reveal any ancient human culture that can be quoted.

I like how it frames Dreaming as the egg from which the dreamer keeps hatching


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012606 - 01/15/17 04:48 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:


I like how it frames Dreaming as the egg from which the dreamer keeps hatching




That right there.  Thanks pal.  Just blew my mind.  Feels like pure release. :heart:
Experientially it sparked a ping that zipped through my awareness and did something special.

There are some sources I could find for it in some mystical traditions that are quiet similar and very on par with that notion.  Give me a bit and i'll post them.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (01/15/17 04:54 PM)


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OfflineLucisM
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012634 - 01/15/17 05:01 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

"This is the secret of dreams-that we do not dream, but rather we are dreamt.  We are the object of the dream, not its maker.  The French say: "Faire un reve." (To make a dream.)  This is wrong.  The dream is dreamed to us.  We are the objects.  We simply find ourselves put into a situation.  If a fatal destiny is awaiting us, we are already seized by what will lead us to this destiny in the dream, in the same way it will overcome us in reality."

-Jung

Children's Dreams:  Notes of the Seminar given in 1936-1940, pg. 159.


Not what you were looking for, but first thing which came to mind.


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©️


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012646 - 01/15/17 05:07 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Transcripts,http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/episode_listing.htm


I was curious so I looked, I think this is the episode,

http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/603.htm


Quote:

EMH: This'll take care of any potential allergens in the planet's atmosphere. I'll monitor your medical status from the bridge, but I don't anticipate any problems. Since I'm not going, I wonder if you'd mind snapping a few holo-images for me while you're down there.
NEELIX: Gladly.
EMH: Tell me something, Mister Neelix. Do you daydream?
NEELIX: On Talaxia, we have a saying. The dream dreams the dreamer.
EMH: Care to translate?
NEELIX: We like to think that fantasies and daydreams come from someplace else. Another land. They slip into our minds and whisper about things we never imagined.
EMH: A strange notion.
NEELIX: Do you daydream, Doctor?
EMH: Of course not. I'm a computer programme. I prefer wide shots, Mister Neelix. If you're feeling creative, throw in a little ultraviolet.
NEELIX: Will do.






Edited by falcon (01/15/17 05:31 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: falcon]
    #24012723 - 01/15/17 05:39 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Falcon; that's the passage! (I am binging on (Netflix) Voyager)

Fennario; it's nice to see similarities with Jung

Blind Ass; cool, that same reason is why I keep thinking back on it.


--------------------
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Offlinefalcon
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012741 - 01/15/17 05:49 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I'm going to watch some of that now that I know it's there.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012742 - 01/15/17 05:49 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

EMH: This'll take care of any potential allergens in the planet's atmosphere. I'll monitor your medical status from the bridge, but I don't anticipate any problems. Since I'm not going, I wonder if you'd mind snapping a few holo-images for me while you're down there.
NEELIX: Gladly.
EMH: Tell me something, Mister Neelix. Do you daydream?
NEELIX: On Talaxia, we have a saying. The dream dreams the dreamer.
EMH: Care to translate?
NEELIX: We like to think that fantasies and daydreams come from someplace else. Another land. They slip into our minds and whisper about things we never imagined.
EMH: A strange notion.
NEELIX: Do you daydream, Doctor?
EMH: Of course not. I'm a computer programme. I prefer wide shots, Mister Neelix. If you're feeling creative, throw in a little ultraviolet.
NEELIX: Will do.




I really like that. :smile:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: sudly]
    #24012867 - 01/15/17 07:01 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

dzogchen, tibetan dream yoga, some zen traditions like bodhidharmas and linji , the siddhi yoga of India, the huichol shamanic indians of mexico, and a few others I cannot remember at the moment all have this notion in them.  The dream is that the dream is real - idk why im saying that but I just remembered it from someplace.

That we awaken from a dream into a dream and dream countless dreams to find the dreamer while fast asleep till the day we remember experiantally that we are all but asleep and so we dream the delusive dream of an ignorant sleep to rest and in doing so the cycle continues, usually at death or through intense monk like practice or shamanic practices do people glimpse the primordial minds nature - absent yet crystal clear, it is like magical illusion derp hurp derla . time for bed im off my rocker.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (01/15/17 07:04 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24012916 - 01/15/17 07:25 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I don't like that :sad::frown:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24013073 - 01/15/17 08:23 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:... The dream is that the dream is real - idk why im saying that but I just remembered it from someplace.

That we awaken from a dream into a dream and dream countless dreams to find the dreamer while fast asleep till the day we remember ...




I think that the operation of a brain (24/7) has the character of dreaming, and that  that dreaming dreams us. - everything we are and think is content of the dream which continues to generate us.

this concept really is not about waking up, and it makes no special distinction between waking or or other states - it's 24/7 whether you are aware of it or not.


--------------------
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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24013097 - 01/15/17 08:34 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

The brain may be electrically active in a 24 hour cycle but the amplitude of brain wave frequencies changes quite dramatically whilst sleeping.

Quote:

"The cerebral cortex is composed of neurons that are interconnected to each other in networks and also receive inputs from other areas of the brain.  Electrical activity in the form of nerve impulses being sent and received to and from cortical neurons is always present, even during sleep. Biologically, medically and legally, the absence of cortical activity signifies death."

"Delta and theta rhythms are low-frequency EEG patterns that increase during sleep in the normal adult.  As people move from lighter to deeper stages of sleep (prior to REM sleep), the occurrence of alpha waves diminish and is gradually replaced by the lower frequency theta and then delta frequency rhythms."

http://www.psych.westminster.edu/psybio/BN/Labs/Brainwaves.htm




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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24013174 - 01/15/17 09:06 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

The idea that we are being dreamt rather than being dreamers ourselves reminds me a lot of the post marxist philosophy, frankfort school etc.

Check out this clip from one of zizeks movies regarding film and dreams:



--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: Lucis]
    #24013179 - 01/15/17 09:08 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
"This is the secret of dreams-that we do not dream, but rather we are dreamt.  We are the object of the dream, not its maker.  The French say: "Faire un reve." (To make a dream.)  This is wrong.  The dream is dreamed to us.  We are the objects.  We simply find ourselves put into a situation.  If a fatal destiny is awaiting us, we are already seized by what will lead us to this destiny in the dream, in the same way it will overcome us in reality."

-Jung

Children's Dreams:  Notes of the Seminar given in 1936-1940, pg. 159.


Not what you were looking for, but first thing which came to mind.




That's gotta be the best Jung quote I've read. Most of his stuff irks me, but I like that :super:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: blingbling]
    #24013867 - 01/16/17 07:03 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

yes your right vine, I suppose the only distinction then would be to be nonlucidly dreaming or lucidly dreaming.


--------------------
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #24013996 - 01/16/17 08:22 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Lucid or not, the content of experience including all aspects of the person's state of mind are from the Dream.

this view seems twisted only because we think of the person dreaming not the dream personing.

the Dream is what is happening in the Brain & Body - that is the creation of the Dream which creates the dreamer.


--------------------
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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24014171 - 01/16/17 09:46 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

still there is an aspect where the dream becomes aware it is dreaming - hence a sense of self and lucidity appear - another dream :smile: but all around It seems so as you say ... mebes.:jimmies:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (01/16/17 09:48 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24014203 - 01/16/17 10:02 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I'm still aware of my dreams from 2 nights ago when I was in an old mansion being renovated which I explored, then I heard commotion outside and I appeared on the sidewalk of the front lawn. It was there that I saw a husband running up a grassy hill crying to his wife that stood beside me.

As we watched him energetically run towards us there was a small black flash before him and his throat was cut, he was being circled by a swarm of flying saw blades. They flew around him slicing him to pieces until there was nothing but lumps of meat splayed across the green.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblewolfiewolfie
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: sudly]
    #24014303 - 01/16/17 10:49 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

This thread reminds me of a meditation video that I used to listen to. I'm really picky when it comes to guided meditations but this one was different from all the rest.



A number of times I've laid in bed listening to this with a few small doses of dmt and it's just amazing.

Listen to the first minute or two (preferably theough earphones) and you will see what I mean :smile:


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The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all.

My Drawings


Edited by wolfiewolfie (01/16/17 10:50 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: wolfiewolfie]
    #24014354 - 01/16/17 11:06 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I know them feels.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: The Dream Dreams the Dreamer [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24014424 - 01/16/17 11:34 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

What an interesting dream we're in.


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full blown human


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