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Offlinetopdog82
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Should suicide/poison be legal?
    #24012461 - 01/15/17 03:40 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I posted a thread a few months ago about nbome. Something along the lines of "why is nbome still a thing?"

ME: nbome was so 2012. we have RC's that don't have a chance of killing you in normal dosage ranges. why nbome even on the market?
Replies:People have a right to put whatever they want in their body. Thats their choice

And Thats a damn good argument that I sort of came to terms with by the end of the thread. But in this case, the variable in question (nbome) is inherently a toxic chemical. Should giving inherently toxic chemicals to the public be legal?

Should we have a regulated market for arsenic? Now granted, arsenic lacks a recreational component that nbome has. but the idea is the same? nbome is INHERENTLY toxic and we have drugs that do literally the exact same thing with 0 risk (LSD etc.). Even meth, crack or heroin don't inherently have a chance of killing you in the normal dosage range (right?)

philosophically, I want to say "yes". because each man/woman should do as they please. But in reality if nbome were available to the public, (assuming we live in a world LSD and all other major recreational drug were legal), I think nbome would be used to poison people. I mean having the ability to dose someone some nbome would be probably the cruelest way I could think of to end someone's life. The night I took 25i (thinking it was L) was the worst night of my life. You could argue that nbome already was legal at a point in time but I think nbome at that point in time was poorly understood and there was not enough research done on it to confirm its toxicity. Also; the only reason nbome exists or even got big at all was due to the fact L is illegal and often inconsistently dosed/priced. If the drug war never began, I think the only chems that would be marketed would be the major psyches (2c's, L, mesc etc.) and pharma companies would only release new chems after extensive testing/trials with the FDA. No market would open for nbome cause the chem would get outclassed

Also; if suicide were legal and poison were available to the public I feel that not only would people impulsively off themselves after say a gf breaks their heart (though in the long run it wasn't a huge deal. They are too caught up in their suffering to realize this), people may off themselves when they owe someone tons of money. Or off themselves when they are the breadwinner of the family leaving the children on their own

tl:dr; Should suicide be legal? Philosophically I want to say yes. But the reality of it seems a lot more complex than that. Should arsenic be available to the public?
We are all against the drug war, but should nbome and other inherently toxic chems (that clearly have healthier replacements that are better in almost every way) be legal?
By saying the drug war is stupid and counterproductive (which it is), where do we stand as a community on PCP?(I am told PCP has a high chance of the user freaking out) EDIT: by freaking out, I mean having a high likelihood of killing other people. What about barbiturates?(Correct me if I am wrong, but they have a low theraputic index contrary to benzos which have a high one. Hence one could just pop a few and off themselves really peacefully)

My thoughts; In the case of barbs, I think maybe we could find a way to only market the barbs with the higher theraputic indexes? Or keep barbs illegal while keeping benzos legal in this hypothetical realm? and in the case of PCP, maybe sell it mixed in with some benzo's to mitigate the stimulating aspect of PCP? OR only market dissos which don't have that freakout factor?


Edited by topdog82 (01/15/17 03:44 PM)


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OfflineCanadian Jesus
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24012507 - 01/15/17 04:01 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Assisted suicide should be legal, but only after intense lengthy psychiatric evaluation and done under the supervision of a doctor. I think Canada's first assisted suicide case was passed in the courts fairly recently. You can't just have people offing themselves for silly and inherently selfish reasons such as owing somebody money. Not to say that's going to stop people from doing it themselves through other means anyways.

Stuff like arsenic, cyanide, etc should not be available on the public market. People aren't only going to use it on themselves. There would be too many people using it to commit murder on other people.

I fully support the notion that people should have the right to put whatever they want in their body. But that's mostly regarding psychoactive drugs. If people choose to ruin their lives with heroin then that's on them. It should be a medical issue and not a legal one. I hate the drug war and all it stands for. People shouldn't be persecuted for using drugs recreationaly if they're not hurting anyone else.

In a scenario where drugs are legalized, if somebody stabs somebody else over a bag of meth, there should be an extra charge added onto the attempted (or successful) murder due to it being drug related. This should be done as a deterrent for others who might do the same thing. Same goes for theft. Add an extra year jail/prison time for it being drug related. I hope that would satisfy all those against legalization of recreational drugs.


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SunnyD said:
Definitely have more respect for sheekle than I do for unjust laws


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24012514 - 01/15/17 04:05 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Yes.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24012526 - 01/15/17 04:07 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Those are two seperate issues.

So far as I know poison is legal. Cyanide for instance is legal. If you want to buy some you'll need a reason to tell the chemist shop when you open an account, like your hobby is metal plating or something. But thats just because of the control on chemicals in general in our contemperary society with so much paranoia regarding drug labs.

IMO suicide should be illegal. Its generally harmful to society so it should be discouraged. But if someone does it they can't be prosecuted under the law so the legal status is kind or irrelevant.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #24012531 - 01/15/17 04:10 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I think suicide should be legal. You should have to right to end your life because of medical reasons or not. Why should you be forced to endure a life of suffering if you don't want to? It's your life you should end it if you wish


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #24012556 - 01/15/17 04:23 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

What about NBOME's?


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OfflineCanadian Jesus
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24012580 - 01/15/17 04:34 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I'd be a hypocrite to say that NBOME's should be illegal. I think that people should be made blatantly aware of the dangers and health issues involving them. I'd imagine with cheap legal LSD that they'd fall to the wayside with few people manufacturing them and less people retailing them. And the ones that do sell it should make people aware that NBOME's are deadly in recreational doses. Maybe have a general consensus among drug manufacturers to stop producing them at all in favor of better safer drugs.


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What's the crime if I snort a line, smoke, toke shoot it up all at the same time?



SunnyD said:
Definitely have more respect for sheekle than I do for unjust laws


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Canadian Jesus]
    #24012641 - 01/15/17 05:05 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Canadian Jesus said:
I'd be a hypocrite to say that NBOME's should be illegal. I think that people should be made blatantly aware of the dangers and health issues involving them. I'd imagine with cheap legal LSD that they'd fall to the wayside with few people manufacturing them and less people retailing them. And the ones that do sell it should make people aware that NBOME's are deadly in recreational doses. Maybe have a general consensus among drug manufacturers to stop producing them at all in favor of better safer drugs.



I think/hope that in this hypothetical that the drug war ended, that people would be properly educated. some kid in my high school friend group took 5 hits of 25i. I am surprised he is alive. he was completely unaware of the dangers
Quote:

Canadian Jesus said:
Assisted suicide should be legal, but only after intense lengthy psychiatric evaluation and done under the supervision of a doctor. I think Canada's first assisted suicide case was passed in the courts fairly recently. You can't just have people offing themselves for silly and inherently selfish reasons such as owing somebody money. Not to say that's going to stop people from doing it themselves through other means anyways.

Stuff like arsenic, cyanide, etc should not be available on the public market. People aren't only going to use it on themselves. There would be too many people using it to commit murder on other people.

I fully support the notion that people should have the right to put whatever they want in their body. But that's mostly regarding psychoactive drugs. If people choose to ruin their lives with heroin then that's on them. It should be a medical issue and not a legal one. I hate the drug war and all it stands for. People shouldn't be persecuted for using drugs recreationaly if they're not hurting anyone else.

In a scenario where drugs are legalized, if somebody stabs somebody else over a bag of meth, there should be an extra charge added onto the attempted (or successful) murder due to it being drug related. This should be done as a deterrent for others who might do the same thing. Same goes for theft. Add an extra year jail/prison time for it being drug related. I hope that would satisfy all those against legalization of recreational drugs.



Didn't know a lot of this. super interesting


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OfflineReprobate420
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24012645 - 01/15/17 05:06 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I think Assisted Suicide just became legal not too long ago in my part of Canada.... not sure if it's nation-wide or not. :mushroom2:


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Reprobate420] * 1
    #24012656 - 01/15/17 05:12 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Nobody but me has the right tell me when I can or cannot die. Especially the state. Yes.


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Offlinekakashi68
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Reprobate420]
    #24012659 - 01/15/17 05:14 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

why dont muricans just buy a gun and shoot themselves... like its quicker easier and stupider why do you need posion...

Nbome is only legal because of a loophole.

If someone wants to kill themselves they will. Euthanasia however should be legal for people who are in so much pain, terminal or have a life long shitty illness.


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You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven.
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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24012676 - 01/15/17 05:22 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

If drugs were legal and readily available people wouldn't resort to using shitty drugs such a nbombs and the free market would naturally phase them out because there wouldn't be any reason for anyone to do them


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OfflineCanadian Jesus
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: pineninja]
    #24012710 - 01/15/17 05:35 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

If you want to kill yourself by your own hand then that's fine. Doctors shouldn't have to bear the burden of having to kill otherwise healthy people, especially when there's treatment available for their mental health issues.

Assisted suicide or euthanasia should only be available for people with debilitating physical illness or mental illness so bad that the person in question has essentially zero quality of life. And this should only be done after expensive psychiatric evaluation. The person should also be given time to re think their decision.


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What's the crime if I snort a line, smoke, toke shoot it up all at the same time?



SunnyD said:
Definitely have more respect for sheekle than I do for unjust laws


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InvisibleThemanwiththeplan
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Canadian Jesus]
    #24012744 - 01/15/17 05:51 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Yep it should be legal it your body.Why the hell not..


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Offlinealfonseelrick
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Themanwiththeplan]
    #24012799 - 01/15/17 06:26 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Someone could assasinate another person.....


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Edited by alfonseelrick (01/15/17 10:43 PM)


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: alfonseelrick]
    #24013269 - 01/15/17 09:42 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

a lot of the answers I am getting are just clear "yes" answers. Again. I understand the philosophical argument

But my real question here was from a practical standpoint, how do you expect to take care of the people who have families that they then leave behind? What about the debts they owe? Doesn't really sound practical. And people aren't really confronting this

This isn't like legalizing drugs where doing it "responsibly" would remove much of the downsides. This is a pretty serious damn issue


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OfflineCanadian Jesus
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24013370 - 01/15/17 10:40 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Having the psychiatrist speak to the family would be one thing. Also having the family members sign for the euthanasia so that they and their loved one in question fully understand the situation and repercussions. It is a very serious matter that should not be taken lightly. Offer support groups/counseling for those left behind. In the future I'd imagine it wouldn't be so stigmatized and there would be infrastructure put into place to address these issues.

Also, people with significant debt should be excluded from medically assisted suicide, or have a plan in place to settle those debts before euthanasia such as family members willing to pay the creditors.


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What's the crime if I snort a line, smoke, toke shoot it up all at the same time?



SunnyD said:
Definitely have more respect for sheekle than I do for unjust laws


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Canadian Jesus] * 1
    #24013392 - 01/15/17 10:57 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

suicide is damaging to those around you.

it's meant to be.

yes, it should be legal: here's why: because if it's legal, someone's attempts at a call for help is not suppressed as much as when it is illegal- they can receive treatment without the same stigma, hence, you have less instances of people actually committing suicide successfully, because they aren't put so much so into a corner where they can't tell anyone for the sake of not being stigmatized or committed that they are planning to commit suicide.

if someone wants to commit suicide, it should be noted that such a thing SHOULD be done for the express purpose of hurting those around them...good. if one's life sucks enough that they should consider suicide, then the people around them shouldn't act so blithely towards the fact, lest they deserve the pain that comes with knowing they could have done something.

does life suck that bad? sure it does. if no one cares...what's the point of living?

Quote:

What about the debts they owe?




the concept that one can "owe debts through someone else" is...for lack of a better term...actually there is no one term to denote how senseless, illogical, stupid, idiotic, disgraceful, moronic, foolish, condemnable, and outright astounding it is of a concept.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24013442 - 01/15/17 11:28 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

yes


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OfflineCrave
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #24013446 - 01/15/17 11:32 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Go walk through an oncology ward in a hospital to see whether Euthanasia should be legalised. It definitely should be. I think the problem though is that it's a legal and political quagmire.

Politically it's not going to be a well received policy and will inevitably cause a backlash from the evangelist religious extremists. It'd be a shit storm.

Legally it'd be a nightmare also for alot of reasons.. from a compensation and liability perspective. Who responsibility is it to complete the procedure? Who foots the bill when they screw it up? Probably not a whole lot of people lining up to take responsibility for that.

And even to just create the scheme, where do they draw the line? How do they justify ones suffering and categorise it as warranting Euthanasia? Missing only one leg? Not good enough. You can't choose to die yet, buddy. You must be atleast 75% impaired to qualify. Well.. what about Mr 74%? What about people who are more sensitive then others and can't handle whatever they've been dealt?

Just in general it would be a very difficult thing to accomplish. But it should be done. I think people should have a right to choose and to die with dignity.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Crave]
    #24013456 - 01/15/17 11:43 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I don't only think it should be legal I think it should be encouraged. People act like suicide is so sad. What's sad is living when you don't want to. Suicide solves that problem. It should be as simple as a flu shot.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: TheFakeSunRa] * 1
    #24013511 - 01/16/17 12:14 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

people should walk around with a gun strapped to their heads. sounds like the next neodadaist performance piece.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24013579 - 01/16/17 01:09 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
I don't only think it should be legal I think it should be encouraged. People act like suicide is so sad. What's sad is living when you don't want to. Suicide solves that problem. It should be as simple as a flu shot.



Lol but I feel many people impulsively would off themselves


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24014651 - 01/16/17 12:58 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

The reason why self assisted suicide/suicide is not legal is because of religion, period. I am 100% for assisted suicide/suicide. If the person "owes a debt" well the people that they "owe" just take the loss, too fucking bad. Thinking about it this may be another reason why people don't want people to die, money. I have been to a VA where WW2 vets are kept alive with tube feedings and meds. They can not do anything for themselves anymore. Why are they being kept alive? The family? I still don't know. I am sure there are various reasons involving family etc...but it seems selfish and stupid to keep someone alive in those conditions. So money and religion are the basis for not wanting people to die, greedy selfish fucked up people! I am glad Colorado finally passed a bill that allows self assisted suicide because when I want to die, I want to die.

Current Status

On November 8, 2016, Colorado voters passed Proposition 106, the End of Life Options Act, at the ballot by 65 to 35 percent (or 2 to 1) margin. The law went into effect on December 16, 2016.

Fifty-six percent of Colorado physicians support the option, according to the Colorado Medical Society.

History

Proposition 106, a physician-assisted dying measure, had qualified qualified for the ballot in August 2o16. According to a Colorado Mesa University September 2016 poll, 70 percent of Coloradans supported the measure, with 46 percent favoring it strongly.

The ballot measure’s success followed the failure of bills to progress in the Colorado state legislature in two subsequent sessions.

In 2015, Colorado State Representatives Lois Court (D-Denver) and Joann Ginal (D-Fort Collins) sponsored HB 15-1135, the Colorado Death with Dignity Act, which was heard and voted down in a House Committee.

In January 2016, Representatives Court and Ginal introduced HB 16-1054, a Death with Dignity bill, while Senator Michael Merrifield (D-Manitou Springs) signed on as sponsor of SB 16-025, an identical companion bill, in the Colorado Senate. The new bill was called the Colorado End-of-Life Options Act. A hearing in the Senate State, Veterans, and Military Affairs Committee took place on February 3, 2016. The bill was voted down (“postponed indefinitely”) 3 to 2 along party lines. A hearing in the House Judiciary Committee took place on February 4, 2016. The bill passed 6 to 5, again along party lines. On February 24, 2016, the bill sponsors pulled the bill from consideration by the full House due to a lack of votes to pass it.

The 2015 session was the first time a Death with Dignity bill was considered in the Colorado legislature after the Oregon Death with Dignity Act went into effect. Colorado had considered physician-assisted dying bills in 1995 (HB 95-1308) and 1996 (HB 96-1185).

Resources

Full text of Proposition 106 (originally Initiative 145)
Death with Dignity National Center ad in support of Prop 106 airing in rural areas and featuring Deborah Ziegler, Brittany Maynard’s mother
History and full text of HB 16-1054 and SB 16-025 per the Colorado General Assembly
“Aid in Dying: Colorado Confronts a Difficult Policy Question,” – An analytical report by the Colorado Health Institute, January 2016


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OfflineCrave
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #24014759 - 01/16/17 01:35 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I agree but I think the debt should be passed onto the estate. Call me cold hearted but I think it should. Otherwise their debtors will be unfairly disadvantaged.

I'd be interested to know more about how colorados scheme functions and is setup. How does it work if you know??


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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24014809 - 01/16/17 01:53 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

If you make poison legal you're going to have more people killing each other than themselves. Every self defense nut is going to spike his hollowpoints or blade for some chemical stopping power.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #24014835 - 01/16/17 02:00 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Nobody but me has the right tell me when I can or cannot die. Especially the state. Yes.




This.
I'm free to live which means I'm free to die if I wish.

Being said I do think suicide should be prevented in most cases. Most times a suicidal person still has alot to live for, have issues that can be fixed, all that stuff. But ya know if the system is going to enable the shit that is making record numbers of people depressed, stressed, and mentally ill, then we should be allowed to cope with drugs if we want and give up if we want.


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OfflineCanadian Jesus
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Asante]
    #24014899 - 01/16/17 02:24 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If you make poison legal you're going to have more people killing each other than themselves. Every self defense nut is going to spike his hollowpoints or blade for some chemical stopping power.




This.

Also domestic homicide would become more prevalent where a spouse doesn't have to use 'violent' means to kill their partner.

Mad at your boss? Slip some cyanide into his drink.

Hell, there's people even now who rub bullets into feces to ensure an infection if the bullet itself doesn't kill.


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What's the crime if I snort a line, smoke, toke shoot it up all at the same time?



SunnyD said:
Definitely have more respect for sheekle than I do for unjust laws


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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #24014913 - 01/16/17 02:33 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I say no to more government regulations on anything.  Let the free market sort itself out.  More regulations means more inefficient government spending on creating a board of incompetent, lazy people who bought their way into a government position, and who want more than anything else to keep their positions, overseeing something largely produced abroad and distributed through gray markets.  Another place for the government to bleed money and be ineffective.  No thanks.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Crave]
    #24014985 - 01/16/17 03:02 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Crave said:
I agree but I think the debt should be passed onto the estate. Call me cold hearted but I think it should. Otherwise their debtors will be unfairly disadvantaged.

I'd be interested to know more about how colorados scheme functions and is setup. How does it work if you know??



suppose the debtors have hounded the person to commit suicide. The debt was created by the customer but when they are dead it should end the debt. It's not fair to anyone else who may be related to the person that died. That's just another greedy fucked up thing people have gotten to pass as law.

I'm not sure how it works in CO. I'm guessing it would be terminally ill etc...


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82]
    #24015328 - 01/16/17 05:15 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
I don't only think it should be legal I think it should be encouraged. People act like suicide is so sad. What's sad is living when you don't want to. Suicide solves that problem. It should be as simple as a flu shot.



Lol but I feel many people impulsively would off themselves




Good


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #24015329 - 01/16/17 05:15 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
I say no to more government regulations on anything.  Let the free market sort itself out.  More regulations means more inefficient government spending on creating a board of incompetent, lazy people who bought their way into a government position, and who want more than anything else to keep their positions, overseeing something largely produced abroad and distributed through gray markets.  Another place for the government to bleed money and be ineffective.  No thanks.



Sometimes you need government regulations because companies can't be trusted upon to police themselves
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

Crave said:
I agree but I think the debt should be passed onto the estate. Call me cold hearted but I think it should. Otherwise their debtors will be unfairly disadvantaged.

I'd be interested to know more about how colorados scheme functions and is setup. How does it work if you know??



suppose the debtors have hounded the person to commit suicide. The debt was created by the customer but when they are dead it should end the debt. It's not fair to anyone else who may be related to the person that died. That's just another greedy fucked up thing people have gotten to pass as law.

I'm not sure how it works in CO. I'm guessing it would be terminally ill etc...



But then you might have parents for example who might inherit their children's debt when they know they will soon die. Or purchase an expensive home knowing they can't possibly pay it off before they die, knowing their children would inherit the house debt free..


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #24015392 - 01/16/17 05:42 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

abltsandwich said:
I say no to more government regulations on anything.  Let the free market sort itself out.  More regulations means more inefficient government spending on creating a board of incompetent, lazy people who bought their way into a government position, and who want more than anything else to keep their positions, overseeing something largely produced abroad and distributed through gray markets.  Another place for the government to bleed money and be ineffective.  No thanks.



Sometimes you need government regulations because companies can't be trusted upon to police themselves
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

Crave said:
I agree but I think the debt should be passed onto the estate. Call me cold hearted but I think it should. Otherwise their debtors will be unfairly disadvantaged.

I'd be interested to know more about how colorados scheme functions and is setup. How does it work if you know??



suppose the debtors have hounded the person to commit suicide. The debt was created by the customer but when they are dead it should end the debt. It's not fair to anyone else who may be related to the person that died. That's just another greedy fucked up thing people have gotten to pass as law.

I'm not sure how it works in CO. I'm guessing it would be terminally ill etc...



But then you might have parents for example who might inherit their children's debt when they know they will soon die. Or purchase an expensive home knowing they can't possibly pay it off before they die, knowing their children would inherit the house debt free..




Oh no a bank might get screwed and a decent family might have somewhere to live.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24015422 - 01/16/17 05:58 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

I agree, I agree 100℅ banks routinely fuck people over and make way to much money. But it wouldn't be sustainable if people constantly racked up credit cards and accumulated debt knowing nobody would be responsible for it


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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #24015466 - 01/16/17 06:17 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
I agree, I agree 100℅ banks routinely fuck people over and make way to much money. But it wouldn't be sustainable if people constantly racked up credit cards and accumulated debt knowing nobody would be responsible for it




What's happening isn't sustainable either.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineRollin.n.Strollin
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24015645 - 01/16/17 07:31 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Unfortunately people give up on themselves to easily when it comes to suicidal ideation. Really a large portion of people who have committed suicide didn't really have to. But as I read in an above comment a lengthy psychiatric analysis of the individual should be performed before that person even thinks about suicide.


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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Rollin.n.Strollin]
    #24015652 - 01/16/17 07:33 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Rollin.n.Strollin said:
Unfortunately people give up on themselves to easily when it comes to suicidal ideation. Really a large portion of people who have committed suicide didn't really have to. But as I read in an above comment a lengthy psychiatric analysis of the individual should be performed before that person even thinks about suicide.




Why? No one who succeeds regrets it.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24015676 - 01/16/17 07:40 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

Rollin.n.Strollin said:
Unfortunately people give up on themselves to easily when it comes to suicidal ideation. Really a large portion of people who have committed suicide didn't really have to. But as I read in an above comment a lengthy psychiatric analysis of the individual should be performed before that person even thinks about suicide.




Why? No one who succeeds regrets it.



There are a lot of people burning in hell who wish they had just one human breath left they could use to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineCrave
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #24016255 - 01/16/17 11:40 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

Crave said:
I agree but I think the debt should be passed onto the estate. Call me cold hearted but I think it should. Otherwise their debtors will be unfairly disadvantaged.

I'd be interested to know more about how colorados scheme functions and is setup. How does it work if you know??



suppose the debtors have hounded the person to commit suicide. The debt was created by the customer but when they are dead it should end the debt. It's not fair to anyone else who may be related to the person that died. That's just another greedy fucked up thing people have gotten to pass as law.

I'm not sure how it works in CO. I'm guessing it would be terminally ill etc...



It's definitely harsh, if the debt lead them to suicide but that may have also been their choice to take the debt onboard. That's a very case specific thing.

But I'd say at the very least drawn out of the remainder of the estate and the excess written off from there. Otherwise people would be taking out mortgages and debts in retirement without ever intending to pay them back.

And if debts weren't passed on it would definitely have consequences for the access to credit for everyone else, as the banks won't lose and will just shift this risk or loss elsewhere.


--------------------


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24016267 - 01/16/17 11:51 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
suicide is damaging to those around you.

it's meant to be.

yes, it should be legal: here's why: because if it's legal, someone's attempts at a call for help is not suppressed as much as when it is illegal- they can receive treatment without the same stigma, hence, you have less instances of people actually committing suicide successfully, because they aren't put so much so into a corner where they can't tell anyone for the sake of not being stigmatized or committed that they are planning to commit suicide.

if someone wants to commit suicide, it should be noted that such a thing SHOULD be done for the express purpose of hurting those around them...good. if one's life sucks enough that they should consider suicide, then the people around them shouldn't act so blithely towards the fact, lest they deserve the pain that comes with knowing they could have done something.

does life suck that bad? sure it does. if no one cares...what's the point of living?

Quote:

What about the debts they owe?




the concept that one can "owe debts through someone else" is...for lack of a better term...actually there is no one term to denote how senseless, illogical, stupid, idiotic, disgraceful, moronic, foolish, condemnable, and outright astounding it is of a concept.



I was to emotional to respond correctly to the debt assertion.:thumbup:


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Just a fool on the hill.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24016276 - 01/16/17 11:54 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If you make poison legal you're going to have more people killing each other than themselves. Every self defense nut is going to spike his hollowpoints or blade for some chemical stopping power.



Thats a long and damaging to the cause bow.
I'm pretty sure the hollow point is going to do the job.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: kakashi68]
    #24016284 - 01/16/17 11:56 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

kakashi68 said:
why dont muricans just buy a gun and shoot themselves... like its quicker easier and stupider why do you need posion...
.




Guns/poison are not even close to 100 percent effective. The guy who blew the lower part of his face off because he said Judas Priest told him to in subliminal messages lived three years after pulling the trigger. http://ultimateclassicrock.com/judas-priest-suicide/


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: my3rdeye]
    #24016306 - 01/17/17 12:09 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

people get poisened all the time with bleach and shit so why not legalize heroin


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InvisibleDawks
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Konyap]
    #24016689 - 01/17/17 07:40 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

A person who is suicidal may be looking for a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Their vision may be so clouded by their doom and gloom that they can't see all the bright and happy years they have ahead of them, if only they were to persevere just a little longer.

Because of this I don't think suicide should simply be enabled. People should be made aware that suicide is huge decision and that it's not to be taken lightly. They should also be educated on the impact it'll have on those around them and how incredibly selfish suicide may be. Think of a parent who spent the better part of their life trying to provide for you, possible hundreds and thousands of dollars spent on your schooling and toys and tutors - only for you to throw it all away because of some minor adversity. Not cool.

On the other hand there are people in positions where suicide is really the only logical option. This may be in a situation where you've only got a short time to live anyway and living any longer will only provide you with severe, unnecessary agony. This kind of suicide, called euthanasia, while generally considered controversial is probably practiced more than you think and many medical practitioners are sympathetic to this.

As for your tirade against the 25x class of drugs, I disagree with you. I think that people should absolutely have the freedom of choice over what drugs they decide to put into their body, especially if it's an educated decision where they consider the possible ramifications.

It's likely that novel psychedelics would indeed exist even if LSD were legal as people are always looking for new experiences. Indeed you'll find many people prefer phenethylamines such as 2c-b over classics like LSD. Just because LSD has a rich and interesting cultural history and significance doesn't automatically mean it's inherently a better drug.

Your idea of forcing these novel drugs to pass human trials before being able to be legally sold is made moot by the fact the ruling elite has already done extensive testing on your cherished LSD and determined that it's unsafe for your consumption. What makes you think that in your perfect paradise where LSD replaces alcohol as the soma of the masses that other, novel drugs will not receive the same exact unfair treatment that LSD does today?

Obviously the safety of these drugs should be assayed - but actually prohibiting people from buying them for their own use and person research is silly and counterproductive.


--------------------
date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Dawks]
    #24016737 - 01/17/17 08:21 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Id love to go out by secobarbital or propofole injection when im old. Its probably the best way to go out. Without any worries and in a blissful euphoria.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Crave]
    #24017859 - 01/17/17 04:28 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Crave said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

Crave said:
I agree but I think the debt should be passed onto the estate. Call me cold hearted but I think it should. Otherwise their debtors will be unfairly disadvantaged.

I'd be interested to know more about how colorados scheme functions and is setup. How does it work if you know??



suppose the debtors have hounded the person to commit suicide. The debt was created by the customer but when they are dead it should end the debt. It's not fair to anyone else who may be related to the person that died. That's just another greedy fucked up thing people have gotten to pass as law.

I'm not sure how it works in CO. I'm guessing it would be terminally ill etc...



It's definitely harsh, if the debt lead them to suicide but that may have also been their choice to take the debt onboard. That's a very case specific thing.

But I'd say at the very least drawn out of the remainder of the estate and the excess written off from there. Otherwise people would be taking out mortgages and debts in retirement without ever intending to pay them back.

And if debts weren't passed on it would definitely have consequences for the access to credit for everyone else, as the banks won't lose and will just shift this risk or loss elsewhere.



Then maybe there should be some forms and/or medical papers informing the bank/lender of the persons medical condition before a major loan is taken out? Seems a little crazy to try and implement something like that. If it is to be a loss to the company/corp/bank then so be it. Why should they get more money from the people connected to the person that dies? Greedy bastards have set it up so they can make even more money off the death of a person.

If one has already gotten a loan etc, and then found out they were terminally ill or any number of things afterwards, why should the bank/lender profit from the death? As long as it wasn't preconceived and done to fuck over the lender/bank, I think they shouldn't get anything from the death.


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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #24017881 - 01/17/17 04:36 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

We have a situation where some people can simply order neat fentanyl derivatives by mail. Result: Prince died in a fucking park on fent tainted heroin, junkies are dropping like flies all over.

Let poisons just be very VERY hard to get OK? I'm not comfortable with a situation where joe blow the lowlife dealer can order lets say 10 grams of pure fentanyl analog for $1,000 by mail and then uses it to start cutting his merchandise.

If someone knows what hes doing, likeb those guys who sell perfectly diluted nasal spray bottles, perfect! But the neat powder should NEVER be commonly available because if you sneeze on it every mouse in your crappy appartment OD's.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24017885 - 01/17/17 04:38 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

It's a nice apartment, thank you very much...


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #24017886 - 01/17/17 04:38 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

I didnt know you had mice :grin:


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Omnicyclion.org
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InvisibleShroomerInTheRye
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #24017894 - 01/17/17 04:45 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Do I think arsenic should be legal and available to buy at the drugstore?
:no:

Do I think suicide, maybe more specifically, assisted suicide, should be legal?  100% yes.

I read somewhere that the more progressive European countries that produce tasty chocolates, like Belgium, have this policy where a person can walk into a doctor's office and request to die if they've been diagnosed with depression or some other illnesses.  The doctor has the right to either refuse the treatment or administer it.

I remember being in the hospital for attempting suicide in 2008 and I was talking to this old lady in the common room.  She'd been hospitalized many times before for attempting suicide.  We're talking over 5 attempts that she's admitting to.  In a case like that, let the lady die.  It's obviously what she wants and something inside hurts her bad enough that she keeps going back.  It's kinda cruel, in my opinion, to keep her alive if simply existing hurts that much.

I know it sounds cold on the surface, but someone like that has zero quality of life and there's been no amount of medicine or treatment to make her better.  Let her have peace.  The pain she feels in her soul is indescribably distressing.


--------------------
:nyan: <-- Clicky Clicky


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: ShroomerInTheRye]
    #24017901 - 01/17/17 04:48 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ShroomerInTheRye said:
Do I think arsenic should be legal and available to buy at the drugstore?
:no:

Do I think suicide, maybe more specifically, assisted suicide, should be legal?  100% yes.

I read somewhere that the more progressive European countries that produce tasty chocolates, like Belgium, have this policy where a person can walk into a doctor's office and request to die if they've been diagnosed with depression or some other illnesses.  The doctor has the right to either refuse the treatment or administer it.

I remember being in the hospital for attempting suicide in 2008 and I was talking to this old lady in the common room.  She'd been hospitalized many times before for attempting suicide.  We're talking over 5 attempts that she's admitting to.  In a case like that, let the lady die.  It's obviously what she wants and something inside hurts her bad enough that she keeps going back.  It's kinda cruel, in my opinion, to keep her alive if simply existing hurts that much.

I know it sounds cold on the surface, but someone like that has zero quality of life and there's been no amount of medicine or treatment to make her better.  Let her have peace.  The pain she feels in her soul is indescribably distressing.



I agree to all of this.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: ShroomerInTheRye]
    #24017917 - 01/17/17 04:54 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Now there is the necessary and pragmatic separation needed between these two SEPERATE issues.
People aren't advocating for there to be an abundance of dangerous drugs to flood the market. They just want those who have made the decision that is theirs to make to have some dignity.
While counselling is generally a good idea regardless, those who are saying that the "gravity" of the situation needs to be clearly explained to the person, just have no idea tbh.
If you think a sane person with their faculties doesn't understand the ramifications of suicide you're the one that's deluded.
And the debt thing is just fucked up "No one get out of here dead".


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OfflineRollin.n.Strollin
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Asante]
    #24018063 - 01/17/17 06:12 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
We have a situation where some people can simply order neat fentanyl derivatives by mail. Result: Prince died in a fucking park on fent tainted heroin, junkies are dropping like flies all over.

Let poisons just be very VERY hard to get OK? I'm not comfortable with a situation where joe blow the lowlife dealer can order lets say 10 grams of pure fentanyl analog for $1,000 by mail and then uses it to start cutting his merchandise.

If someone knows what hes doing, likeb those guys who sell perfectly diluted nasal spray bottles, perfect! But the neat powder should NEVER be commonly available because if you sneeze on it every mouse in your crappy appartment OD's.




I thought prince died from one of those Actiq lozenges or whatever they are? But then again Fent is spreading at a bad rate so it wouldn't surprise me.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Should suicide/poison be legal? [Re: Rollin.n.Strollin] * 2
    #24018472 - 01/17/17 08:30 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

That's why all drugs should be legal and available. Keep it off the black market.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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