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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly] * 1
    #24023979 - 01/19/17 07:47 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Knowledge, including scientific knowledge, is a property which arises in consciousness, and depending on the nature of this knowledge it may track the reality existing outside of consciousness better or worse eg. it might take more of a leap to get to a particular conclusion than some other way of conceptualising a phenomena. Your scientific and theoretical insights probably track reality existing outside conscious awareness better than most, but it is still first an appearance in consciousness and not necessarily a material reality, and this is something you are unable to admit, probably because you have total faith in your theories or at least an unrefined level of enthusiasm, and perhaps a lack of understanding of the qualitative dimensions of reality, which clouds your judgement.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling]
    #24024032 - 01/19/17 08:10 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Again, I think the object of science is to be able to grasp the hypothetical as true.



To be able to hypothesise, I think, is a human trait granted by our disproportionately large fore brains.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24024057 - 01/19/17 08:20 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

I thought the point of science is to set and then challenge a hypothesis or series of hypotheses, and eventually when a hypothesis withstands as much criticism as can be mustered it is granted to be true based on the present information available. What your describing sounds more like religion on the face of it :shrug:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling]
    #24024083 - 01/19/17 08:29 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

I think that what we can do is set and challenge a hypothesis by believing it as true until we encounter better evidence or a more informed line of rational that supposes another idea or a wider perspective.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24024144 - 01/19/17 08:46 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I think that what we can do is set and challenge a hypothesis by believing it as true until we encounter better evidence or a more informed line of rational that supposes another idea or a wider perspective.




Hypothesis are not believed - they are tested
they are also required to make predictions -  that are falsifiable - and can be tested

It is possible to have different hypotheses that explain the same thing, which again shows they are not to be believed. They  are therefore required to make falsifiable predictions, in order to gain more probability of being correct or partially correct, if experimentation bears out the predictions.

And experimentation is required to have controls, and possibly be 'blind' if human subjects are involved. Everything is done to rule out belief.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24024152 - 01/19/17 08:48 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

You don't challenge something by believing its true, but I think I know what you mean. We take something to be true based on the best evidence available at the time.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: redgreenvines] * 3
    #24024162 - 01/19/17 08:51 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it all happens in the mind.




Yet perhaps not all in the head.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #24024198 - 01/19/17 09:05 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

To want to test a hypothesis you would have to believe that at least some portion of it is true or?

I think we test the predictive capabilities of a hypothesis until we have enough evidence to call it a theory.

I agree that falsifiable research questions are important.
Quote:

Is it possible to subjugate the fight or flight response through psychedelic habituation to develop ethics by being able to draw back from instinct to think critically and make the best decision for survival?




Mankind has done plenty of experimentation that we can learn from, it's how we know about radiowaves and the anatomy of human beings, I think that sometimes all that we may need to do to prove a hypothetical as true is to find a pattern in the experimental evidence of our past.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24025653 - 01/20/17 01:21 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
To want to test a hypothesis you would have to believe that at least some portion of it is true or?
....




....I think that sometimes all that we may need to do to prove a hypothetical as true is to find a pattern in the experimental evidence of our past.




No you don't have to believe anything. A better word is 'probability'. So we could say: "One suspects there is a reasonable probability...'that at least some portion of it is true'.

this is because:  "It is possible to have different hypotheses that explain the same thing, which again shows they are not to be believed."

Also finding patterns is not accepted as a substitute for conducting experiments. The scientific method even requires experiments to be replicable or repeatable by others.
As well as have controls, etc.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #24026314 - 01/20/17 05:18 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

No you don't have to believe anything. A better word is 'probability'. So we could say: "One suspects there is a reasonable probability...'that at least some portion of it is true'.



Fair enough.

Finding patterns in the evidence of previous experiments*


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: Rahz]
    #24032515 - 01/23/17 05:17 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it all happens in the mind.




Yet perhaps not all in the head.




Quoting redgreenvines for truth.

Wherever you are, there is your mind. Wherever you go, there is your mind. As you leave to go somewhere else, there is your mind.

It is not solipsistic, but you are somehow creating pretty much everything. Not 100% but 98%.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: beforethedawn]
    #24032950 - 01/23/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it all happens in the mind.




Yet perhaps not all in the head.




Quoting redgreenvines for truth.

Wherever you are, there is your mind. Wherever you go, there is your mind. As you leave to go somewhere else, there is your mind.

It is not solipsistic, but you are somehow creating pretty much everything. Not 100% but 98%.




I agree but the head and the mind aren't the same. I don't know that gurus say some things are thought and some things are not. Perhaps some of them do, but perhaps they have a reason. I think there is a time and place for everything in that regard. Placing one's focus on a particular chakra is like that. In a general sense I think remaining calm is ideal but do not assume parts of the mind to be useless, or off limits for retrospection.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: Rahz]
    #24033759 - 01/23/17 05:00 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I seem to think we can feel 7 Chakras but that their energy is only produced by 3 locations of the head, the chest and the gut. :shrug:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24033787 - 01/23/17 05:10 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

It seems to me that energy is produced at each and every chakra. Maybe you're heavy on Ajna, Anahata and Manipura? You could have a preponderance in those places. :shrug:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24033892 - 01/23/17 05:44 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

That's certainly fair to say.



Though I would probably group Sahasrara, Ajna and Vishuddha as the head, then Anahata, Manipura and Svadhisthana at the center and Muladhara as the Desire/Instinct.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (01/23/17 09:02 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24033930 - 01/23/17 05:57 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

That's not unreasonable, though I would not prefer it.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24034021 - 01/23/17 06:22 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I seem to think we can feel 7 Chakras but that their energy is only produced by 3 locations of the head, the chest and the gut. :shrug:




Your model is more pragmatic in casual conversation and immediately approachable in that sense but I think with your level of interest as a matter of personal inquiry it is only a matter of time before you move on from three.

I see it loosely as 3/1/3 for particular reasons that go beyond location. For instance, beyond having specific locations the "three appetites" are very different from one another. One is associated with relaxing while the other two are very stimulating but in different ways. In feeling, Manipura is closer to Anahata (spirit) than the others. They are all like that, different but sharing qualities with their neighbors.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: Rahz]
    #24034590 - 01/23/17 09:17 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Fair enough, and though I don't know too much about the Chakras I think you're interpretation does make more sense to me with the Sahasrara, Ajna and Vishudda within the head, Anahata as the center soul or chest, and finally with Manipura, Svadhisthana and Muladhara as the appetitive and instinctive desires of the body/gut.

Correct me if that doesn't seem fitting but I think it goes the head, the chest and then the body.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24034756 - 01/23/17 10:52 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Fair enough, and though I don't know too much about the Chakras I think you're interpretation does make more sense to me with the Sahasrara, Ajna and Vishudda within the head, Anahata as the center soul or chest, and finally with Manipura, Svadhisthana and Muladhara as the appetitive and instinctive desires of the body/gut.

Correct me if that doesn't seem fitting but I think it goes the head, the chest and then the body.




It could be said that in a visceral sense they are variations of each other like frequencies in a linear scale. 3 or 7 are points on a scale that is not metered. There could be 1. There could be 3 or 7, or more. If there are three, there are at least 7... or is there only one? :wink:



--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: Rahz]
    #24034823 - 01/23/17 11:32 PM (7 years, 6 days ago)

How ever many Chakras may be felt in the individual, I am under the impression that the sensations are mediated by the electrical output of 3 anatomical locations.

These include:
  • brainwaves from the head and brain,
  • the cardiac and breathing activity of the chest, the heart and the diaphragm,
  • and finally the processes of metabolisation and digestion that take place throughout the gut of the body.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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