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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011380 - 01/15/17 07:07 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

To me the illusory nature of reality is minimal density.

Maximum density is that of neutronium(inside stars) with one teaspoon weighing an estimated 1-2 billion tonnes 

Quote:

A teaspoon of degenerate neutronium gas would have a mass of two billion tonnes, and if moved to standard temperature and pressure, would emit 57 billion joules of β− decay energy in the first half-life (average of 95 MW of power).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutronium




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24011469 - 01/15/17 08:17 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

so you give no weight to ideas


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24011471 - 01/15/17 08:19 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I give as much weight to ideas as I do to the amplitude of brain wave frequencies.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24011745 - 01/15/17 10:12 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Maya when infused with personality is quite mocking.
Often on salvia, people have a sense of being mocked by mind: i.e. put in a tv game show.




I have never taken Salvia, but the videos I have seen where others have I find disturbing. They seem to lose all control. One guy went through a window, ie right through the glass, and the room he was in was not ground level! Somehow he was not injured.

I believe native peoples eat the leaves because they believe the Goddess of the plant hates dryness, but loves moisture, and yet westerners DO take it that way. The 'wrong' way. Is this why many look like complete morons after smoking it?

Hmmmm


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: zzripz]
    #24011936 - 01/15/17 11:21 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

The eating of salvia leaves requires extensive chewing and bruxion against the cheeks (where absorption slowly occurs), it barely works unless you have 50 times the amount that works for smoking (this is a waste, and wasting is much more fundamentally disrespectful than smoking which is a known way of showing respect to these allies (eg smudging etc.)).

Gagging on the quids is very goofy & sloppy, I am sure that the curandero's told the W.A.S.P. researchers that they had to chew quids did it just to make fun of them, quids are actually designed to be rolled and dried into cigars - imagine how funny it was to make the scientists chew salvia cigars - it was a big hoot (the native people kept a solemn straight face while laughing madly inside) that the white world took as sacrament - total knee slapping indiginous fun!!!!

Smoking is more efficient, not the wrong way. Don't imagine that the only liars are the secret cabal of the Knights Templar etc. many people lie to foreigners for fun.

That you have to chew salvia leaves is a total 'white' lie, and since people are so superstitious in general, they accommodate the lie into their cosmologies.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: sudly]
    #24013008 - 01/15/17 08:00 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

This is a fine example of how much energy is carried by a single gummy bear, it truly puts into perspective the amount of energy that can be compacted into a single area.



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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24013287 - 01/15/17 09:49 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

The disconnect between what science tells us reality is and what our experience of reality is, is an interesting topic that I've been mulling over lately. Rahz claimed in another thread that "the goal is to become inhuman" or words to that effect. Perhaps to fully appreciate modern particle physics we must shed some of our humanity. Its really a kind of autistic way of looking at the world. All things being simply the product of relations totally desperate from our "normal" lived experience. Imagine how someone would behave if they acted as if the objects around them were mostly empty space stuck together by the interaction of chemical bonds, physical forces etc. It would look something like the autistic kid trying to figure out why water is streaming from sisters eye's some moments after the cat was put in the oven for not eating all its supper. I think morality might break down if we really imbibed such a view of the world. Which is why I always find it strange when people claim that buddhist realisations are congruent with modern particle physics. Buddhism is many things, but it is most definitely a system of ethics, and how do you get ethics from empty billiard balls bouncing off each other?


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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling] * 2
    #24013315 - 01/15/17 10:06 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

As I stated in another post, I feel that at a subatomic level, objective processes have subjective correlates, and I feel these correlates are fundamental. The quantum realm is a pretty long way form "billiard balls bouncing off each other." As a matter of fact, quantum theory overthrew classical theory. I find the ideas in the original post to have a lot to do with consciousness, metaphorically and otherwise, but to really get into all that here I feel would be tangential. Suffice it to say that the discoveries of physicists in the 1920s and 30s went way beyond billiard balls, and were indeed intimately related with esoteric thought from the East. David Bohm's notion of the Implicate order is an excellent idea encompassing all of that, East and West.


"This life of yours which you are living is not merely a piece of this entire existence, but in a certain sense the whole; only this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance. This, as we know, is what the Brahmins express in that sacred, mystic formula which is yet really so simple and so clear; tat tvam asi, this is you. Or, again, in such words as 'I am in the east and the west, I am above and below, I am this entire world.'"  --Erwin Schrödinger, one of the founders of quantum mechanics


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24013469 - 01/15/17 11:53 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I'm totally willing to admit my ignorance when it comes to modern particle physics, but I still don't see how you can get subjectivity from quantum material or any material for that matter. You are implying that you have the answer to this problem that has plagued philosophy for the last couple hundred years. Or is there a difference between subjectivity and subjective correlates?


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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling] * 2
    #24013507 - 01/16/17 12:11 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

if you want a sequence of logic to explain the aspect of the illusory reality, and how our perceptions concoct it, it'll be found in sentence structure...not an equation.

but people aren't satisfied until it's an easily boiled-down equation.

which'll never come.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24013658 - 01/16/17 02:13 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Sounds lacanian, am I close?


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling]
    #24013665 - 01/16/17 02:19 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

not really, seeing as i've never read him. maybe it is. i dunno.


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OfflinePeyote Road
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/02/15
Posts: 3,527
Loc: Great Lakes State
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24013670 - 01/16/17 02:23 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
The eating of salvia leaves requires extensive chewing and bruxion against the cheeks (where absorption slowly occurs), it barely works unless you have 50 times the amount that works for smoking (this is a waste, and wasting is much more fundamentally disrespectful than smoking which is a known way of showing respect to these allies (eg smudging etc.)).

Gagging on the quids is very goofy & sloppy, I am sure that the curandero's told the W.A.S.P. researchers that they had to chew quids did it just to make fun of them, quids are actually designed to be rolled and dried into cigars - imagine how funny it was to make the scientists chew salvia cigars - it was a big hoot (the native people kept a solemn straight face while laughing madly inside) that the white world took as sacrament - total knee slapping indiginous fun!!!!

Smoking is more efficient, not the wrong way. Don't imagine that the only liars are the secret cabal of the Knights Templar etc. many people lie to foreigners for fun.

That you have to chew salvia leaves is a total 'white' lie, and since people are so superstitious in general, they accommodate the lie into their cosmologies.




The difference between smoking and holding the leaves in your mouth is that smoking is short and intense while quidding is longer but more gentle. If the plant is not meant to be smoked, it is simply because of the shock of getting rocketed out of one's familiar reality so fast. Aside from that, smoking is very effective.

And the reason people look stupid on youtube is because they are dumb kids who don't know the spiritual aspects of the plant or dont care and are looking to get high or trip out. They smoke bong hits of highly concentrated extracts which would be equivalent to taking 12 grams of mushrooms your first time. Give people 12 grams of mushrooms and I bet they look stupid on camera too.

Also the way salvia works is that it takes you within, you dont remain connected with the outside world in the way that yo udo with mushrooms or LSD on salvia. It is like ketamine in that respect, all encompassing in high doses. Certain cognitive processes remain clear in salvia space and amazing insights into the nature of reality can be had.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24013673 - 01/16/17 02:25 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Lacan postulated that language once entered into invades all aspects of being, and so consciousness can be read as a language, sound familiar?


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling]
    #24013714 - 01/16/17 03:02 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

well, all organisms can communicate somehow...that's language...so i guess he could be correct.


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Invisiblepineninja
Dream Weaver
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Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South Flag
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: blingbling] * 1
    #24013719 - 01/16/17 03:05 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

The illusory nature of self, brought about by fault ridden thoughts leaves little room to objectively assess anything, let alone well enough to label it reality.

If reality is real then so Is this, but if it's an illusion then so is this.


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Just a fool on the hill.


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: pineninja]
    #24013734 - 01/16/17 03:34 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

We can't really talk about reality, since we are Reality.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: beforethedawn]
    #24013746 - 01/16/17 03:48 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

why can't reality talk about reality? we're doing it


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: zzripz]
    #24013768 - 01/16/17 04:29 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

OK, what is the Uncertainty Principle?

Quote:

What is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle?

The uncertainty principle is one of the most famous (and probably misunderstood) ideas in physics. It tells us that there is a fuzziness in nature, a fundamental limit to what we can know about the behaviour of quantum particles and, therefore, the smallest scales of nature. Of these scales, the most we can hope for is to calculate probabilities for where things are and how they will behave. Unlike Isaac Newton's clockwork universe, where everything follows clear-cut laws on how to move and prediction is easy if you know the starting conditions, the uncertainty principle enshrines a level of fuzziness into quantum theory.

Werner Heisenberg's simple idea tells us why atoms don't implode, how the sun manages to shine and, strangely, that the vacuum of space is not actually empty.




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: The illusory nature of reality [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24013799 - 01/16/17 05:38 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
The eating of salvia leaves requires extensive chewing and bruxion against the cheeks (where absorption slowly occurs), it barely works unless you have 50 times the amount that works for smoking (this is a waste, and wasting is much more fundamentally disrespectful than smoking which is a known way of showing respect to these allies (eg smudging etc.)).

Gagging on the quids is very goofy & sloppy, I am sure that the curandero's told the W.A.S.P. researchers that they had to chew quids did it just to make fun of them, quids are actually designed to be rolled and dried into cigars - imagine how funny it was to make the scientists chew salvia cigars - it was a big hoot (the native people kept a solemn straight face while laughing madly inside) that the white world took as sacrament - total knee slapping indiginous fun!!!!

Smoking is more efficient, not the wrong way. Don't imagine that the only liars are the secret cabal of the Knights Templar etc. many people lie to foreigners for fun.

That you have to chew salvia leaves is a total 'white' lie, and since people are so superstitious in general, they accommodate the lie into their cosmologies.




The difference between smoking and holding the leaves in your mouth is that smoking is short and intense while quidding is longer but more gentle. If the plant is not meant to be smoked, it is simply because of the shock of getting rocketed out of one's familiar reality so fast. Aside from that, smoking is very effective.
...




Holding salvia leaves in the mouth will do nothing.

The active ingredient, salvinorin-A, is a waxy crystalline solid that does not dissolve easily (except in acetone or ether)- consider holding a paraffin candle in your mouth. same with salvia leaves. not much will happen. you have to chew intensely to force the waxy material off the leaves' trichomes and press the salvinorin against the cell membranes of your cheeks; also you actually do have to swallow the fluid as well to get the effects from oral salvia.

Quid uses 30 to 50 times the amount of leaves as smoking does, so naturally if done right, the effect of slow absorption will be an elongated trip: instead of 5-10 minutes, you get 20-40 minutes - but the mess and effort is awful. Also if done right, the experience will not be gentle at all.

Under the tongue effects will definitely not happen EVEN IF YOU PUT PURE SALVINORIN IN YOUR MOUTH UNDER YOUR TONGUE.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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