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OfflineKulkulcan
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Registered: 05/04/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 days
questions about preparing grain spawn
    #24008003 - 01/13/17 06:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'm confused about what I've read about preparing grain spawn.

Some say to soak grain for hours before autoclaving. At least one said this was to allow bacterial endospores to germinate, because otherwise they might survive autoclaving. But others don't mention soaking.

Of those that prescribe soaking, recommendations for how long to soak range from 8 to 24 hours. Apparently there's a balance between soaking long enough to germinate bacterial endospores, but not so long so as to start fermenting the grain.

Some say to measure out certain amounts of grain and water, but others say to immerse the grain in water, soak it for however long they prescribe, and then drain it until it stops dripping.

Some say that rye berries require a bit less water than other grains, but many don't mention this.

Of those that prescribe measured amounts of grain and water, some say that larger batches require a somewhat lower water-to-grain ratio. But most don't mention this.

And some say larger batches require more time in the PC, but most don't mention this.

A couple said rye berries don't need to be cooked before autoclaving.

I don't even know how old each of the teks given are, so I can't tell if I'm reading something obsolete or not.

Here's my best guess. This is for filter patch bags.

Mix 1600 g uncooked rye berries with 1350 ml water. A little gypsum can bee added.

Soak 12 hours.

DON'T drain.

Autoclave 90 minutes.

Does this sound good?

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OfflinePezam
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Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #24008125 - 01/13/17 07:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

There are many varying opinions on this, and many of the teks are just plain wrong.  Everyone has a different situation and what works for you might not work for me.  That said, here is what works for me (I have been growing for a long time):

I think soaking grain is best, with a short simmer at the end.  I have always preferred an 18 hour soak.  When I ran winter wheat berries for a few years I wouldn't simmer at all, but it is a softer grain.  I follow the soak by good rinsing and then a short (maybe 5-8 minutes), simmer.  Another good rinse and then a bit of draining.  Yes, autoclave time should be increased if it's a large batch or packed tightly.  A bit of gypsum is a good idea.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Pezam]
    #24008128 - 01/13/17 07:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I soak wbs 24hrs. No simmering.

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OfflineDactylium
Don't touch me I'm sterile


Registered: 08/12/16
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Last seen: 11 months, 13 days
Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #24008168 - 01/13/17 07:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It's not rocket appliances. Soak for 24 hours if you aren't using heat. Heat makes the grain take on water faster so if you're looking to save some time it's a good idea. As far as germinating spores goes, Idk about all that. I've had contams take a few days to appear on agar. I doubt a 24hr soak is gonna help you reduce the spore load of your grain.

Edited by Dactylium (01/13/17 07:59 PM)

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OfflineScottishwarrior
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Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Dactylium]
    #24008207 - 01/13/17 08:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Im still trying to get down the millet. Soaked for 24hrs and pcd, burst grains. Boiled for 10min and pcd, still burst grains. Still giving me hell, but will figure it out sooner or later. Wheat berry was the easiest for me. Just boil for 10 with gypsum, toss till dry, and pc. It is a perfect batch each time.

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OfflineRealityCzech
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Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Scottishwarrior]
    #24008672 - 01/14/17 01:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have been trying out popcorn recently.  A 15 minute simmer, followed by a 24 hour soak, then simmer for 45 minutes, let drain for 90 minutes, tossing them around every 10 minutes or so, then pc for an hour and so far they have been perfect every time.  Once colonised, they g2g beautifully and then to bulk.

On the other hand, a good friend refuses to use popcorn because it has failed her more often than not.  Comparing notes, it sounds like we're doing the same thing, but when she pressure cooks them they split and goo up.  We both have very similar pressure cookers, so i suspect she keeps hers running hard.  I turn the heat down so the valve only puffs once every minute or so.  The one time I got distracted and left it hot enough to puff every few seconds I had the same problem.

My (rather rambling) point is that small differences in technique make huge differences in results.  Read as much as you can and learn from it, but when you start actually doing the things you read about you'll develop a feel for what works best for you.  Also, keep in mind that you'll learn more from your failures than from your successes.  It is disappointing to lose batches, but it is a huge and important part of the learning curve.

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InvisibleAndyHinton


Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 434
Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Scottishwarrior]
    #24009037 - 01/14/17 07:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Look beyond the specific parameters and toward the underlying reasons.

Soaking grains hydrates them, boiling lets water escape as steam, and waiting to autoclave lets bacterial endospores germinate.

I soak grains up to 12 hours, bring them just to a boil, and autoclave them within a day. I rarely use gypsum.

Start with hard winter wheat berries and RR's video.


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OfflineKulkulcan
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Registered: 05/04/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 days
Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: AndyHinton]
    #24009154 - 01/14/17 08:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK, this is all great stuff. But I had a question about using gypsum in grain spawn (if you use it).

If you're going to soak, rinse and drain, rather than pre-measure the grain and water and then soak but not rinse and drain, then when should you mix in the gypsum? After draining, right?

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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: questions about preparing grain spawn [Re: Kulkulcan]
    #24009385 - 01/14/17 10:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If you're using rhy this is what I'd do.

12-24 hour soak (the gypsum goes in here if you want it)
Bring the grain to ~200°F, then drain the water. Heating the grains allows steam to get rid of excess moisture once on a strainer.
Load your steaming grains onto a strainer and flip them untill very few rhy grains stick to your hand when you grab a handful. Box fans can be helpful if you're preping a lot.


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