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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: Patlal]
    #24004058 - 01/12/17 01:13 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The US government priovided you with enough resources to invade other countries. I doubt it could do the same today. Bankruptcy is to close to your ass.
If the gov eliminates income tax. How much revenue does the gov no longer collect?




I gotta side with Patlal here: the US is in a trillion dollar debt. Not billion, TRILLION.

Gotta pay for the roads and stuff. I just wish the tax from income was broken down on how it was spent: infrastructure, roads, military, government buildings, government employees, power stations, water treatment plants etc etc


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InvisibleZiran
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24004083 - 01/12/17 01:22 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

I've always wondered how you solve the problems of inflation, that is the increase in the supply of money, with more inflation. - Ron Paul

It just seems like the principle amount will always be less than the amount owed.

Principle ≠ Principle + Interest


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: Ziran]
    #24004136 - 01/12/17 01:37 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

The premise of OPs argument is absurd. We can't simply go back to 2000. The reason the budget was smaller and the tax revenue has grown is because the size of the US economy (GDP) has nearly doubled since 2000.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: koods]
    #24004155 - 01/12/17 01:41 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

The amount of federal tax revenue vs. GDP is actually lower now than it was in 2000.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: koods]
    #24004159 - 01/12/17 01:42 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

The US dollar has lost a lot of value to inflation over that time as well. $1 in 2000 dollars = $1.40 in 2016 dollars.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004164 - 01/12/17 01:44 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004173 - 01/12/17 01:48 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

That is irrelevant since all this data is measured in dollars the amount of inflation is cancelled out. 

And in terms of inflation, a 40% change in value over 16 years is very low. Historically low and historically stable.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24004185 - 01/12/17 01:54 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?



It's caused by printing more money basically. It's an intentional policy decision. If you can stuff your money under your bed and it will maintain its value indefinitely, there isn't as much incentive to invest it back into the economy.

If you buy gold or something and stuff that under your bed, even if it just maintains its buying power you will have made a "profit" on it when you sell it, and you're supposed to pay income tax on that.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: koods]
    #24004194 - 01/12/17 01:55 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
That is irrelevant since all this data is measured in dollars the amount of inflation is cancelled out. 




All what data? Did someone post some data?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24004201 - 01/12/17 01:58 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?




Pretty much. Without inflation, money has no time value. You could loan someone $1000 bucks and no matter how long they kept it they would still only owe you $1000 - how would a lender make any money off that kind of business. A credit market requires some kind of time value, so that the borrower pays something for using that money and how ling they keep it.

inflation is natural and good when it is stable and reasonable, let's say between (1 and 7%). Below 1% the incentive to loan money is not strong enough to enable a healthy credit market. Just imagine what negative inflation would look like: the person who lends money would owe interest to the borrower. That's is a crazy scenario.

But, the fundamental reason there is inflation is the upward force of trying to get as much money out of a product or service as possible. You sell something for a while and people get used to a price, then you try to get another ten cents out if it and this repeats over and over.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004207 - 01/12/17 01:59 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

koods said:
That is irrelevant since all this data is measured in dollars the amount of inflation is cancelled out. 




All what data? Did someone post some data?



Tax revenue, GDP, etc are measured in dollars so comparing one year to another, the amount of inflation is irrelevant.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: koods]
    #24004211 - 01/12/17 02:01 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Measured in today's dollars?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi] * 1
    #24004219 - 01/12/17 02:04 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?



It's caused by printing more money basically. It's an intentional policy decision. If you can stuff your money under your bed and it will maintain its value indefinitely, there isn't as much incentive to invest it back into the economy.

If you buy gold or something and stuff that under your bed, even if it just maintains its buying power you will have made a "profit" on it when you sell it, and you're supposed to pay income tax on that.



Printing more money has very little to do with inflation. A very small portion of the total amount of wealth valued in US dollars exists as a actual currency. It exists in ledger books and physical property.

People claimed that Obama would tank the dollar because of quantitative easing and firing up the printing press back during the financial crisis. Well, the dollar has been more stable during those eight years than just about any time in us history. People just don't understand economics very well.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (01/12/17 02:08 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004225 - 01/12/17 02:06 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Measured in today's dollars?



GDP in 2000 and tax revenue in 2000 are in 2000 dollars. GDP in 2016 and tax revenue in 2016 are in 2016 dollars. Apples to apples.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: Magicman69]
    #24004236 - 01/12/17 02:07 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

lol good luck with that op


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004237 - 01/12/17 02:07 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

For example, if federal government spending in 2000 was X in 2000's dollars, and spending in 2016 was 1.4 * X in 2016, real spending would actually have been the same. This is relevant to the OP's question "what more are you getting from the government now vs then?"


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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: koods]
    #24004245 - 01/12/17 02:11 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?



It's caused by printing more money basically. It's an intentional policy decision. If you can stuff your money under your bed and it will maintain its value indefinitely, there isn't as much incentive to invest it back into the economy.

If you buy gold or something and stuff that under your bed, even if it just maintains its buying power you will have made a "profit" on it when you sell it, and you're supposed to pay income tax on that.



Printing more money has very little to do with inflation. A very small portion of the total amount of wealth valued in US dollars exists as a actual currency. It exists in ledger books and physical property.



By "basically" I meant "in a loose sense". I'm not just talking about actual bank notes being cranked out. How would things be different if the money supply could not be increased?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004262 - 01/12/17 02:18 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Well if you compare tax revenue to percent of GDP, revenue has actually dropped since 2000 (ie, GDP growth is larger than revenue growth). Spending growth is slightly faster than GDP growth, but not by much, and much of that occurred during the beginning of buses and Obama's terms. Spending growth in the past 6 years is far slower than GDP growth.

And I forgot to mention the main inflationary pressure in a healthy is low unemployment. Once you get around 4.5% unemployment, you move from a not enough jobs to not enough labor. When companies cannot find workers to fill positions, they have to raise wages. Higher wages mean higher costs, and higher prices. The federal reserve sets interest rates, and when unemployment gets too low, they increase the rate to slow the economy. unemployment rates below 2% can create runaway inflation.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: koods]
    #24004263 - 01/12/17 02:19 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?



It's caused by printing more money basically. It's an intentional policy decision. If you can stuff your money under your bed and it will maintain its value indefinitely, there isn't as much incentive to invest it back into the economy.

If you buy gold or something and stuff that under your bed, even if it just maintains its buying power you will have made a "profit" on it when you sell it, and you're supposed to pay income tax on that.



Printing more money has very little to do with inflation. A very small portion of the total amount of wealth valued in US dollars exists as a actual currency. It exists in ledger books and physical property.

People claimed that Obama would tank the dollar because of quantitative easing and firing up the printing press back during the financial crisis. Well, the dollar has been more stable during those eight years than just about any time in us history. People just don't understand economics very well.



I think you mean 'interest', not inflation


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Eliminate the income tax [Re: psi]
    #24004286 - 01/12/17 02:25 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
What causes inflation?

Is it simply time?



It's caused by printing more money basically. It's an intentional policy decision. If you can stuff your money under your bed and it will maintain its value indefinitely, there isn't as much incentive to invest it back into the economy.

If you buy gold or something and stuff that under your bed, even if it just maintains its buying power you will have made a "profit" on it when you sell it, and you're supposed to pay income tax on that.



Printing more money has very little to do with inflation. A very small portion of the total amount of wealth valued in US dollars exists as a actual currency. It exists in ledger books and physical property.



By "basically" I meant "in a loose sense". I'm not just talking about actual bank notes being cranked out. How would things be different if the money supply could not be increased?



If you didn't increase the money supply, then you have negative inflation: the same amount of money but increased value of the things that money represents means the money is more valuable. That is a very bad thing, as explained before. It means cash stored under a bed gains value. People stop spending.

Money supply increases naturally however. If you spend $100,000 to build a house, then sell the house for $200,000, you have just created $100,000 out of thin air. On a ledger book, that money now exists and it is real - you can convert it to actual cash.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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