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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24004175 - 01/12/17 01:49 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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404 said:
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Shroomslip said: Math exists everywhere in the universe. The names, symbols, words etc we use to describe it may be created by us, but the principles they're based on are constant regardless of language or beings intelligent enough to name it.
yup. mathematics is basically the language of the universe... in a sense, it's what drives everything. imo, everything IS mathematics on some level, and i think it's a starting place for the argument that reality is a simulation.
use math to explain a rock
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#24004284 - 01/12/17 02:24 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: 404] 1
#24004292 - 01/12/17 02:26 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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math is constructed.
when there is a construct, such as "rock", the terms used to mathematically define "rock" are invented terms, but not invented aspects of "rock"- they are discovered aspects of "rock".
but the terminology and symbols used to define it are invented.
so the definition is constructed from the terminology and the real-world existence of "rock".
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,363
Loc: The Inexpressible...
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] 1
#24004358 - 01/12/17 02:45 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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A rock contains some trillion molecules, weighs a specific amount of weight caused by the constant force of gravity, measured by complex geometry.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 2
#24004386 - 01/12/17 02:54 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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the methods to measure are static, but the measurements themselves are never static, unless you're talking about utter duplicates of things. all rocks are slightly different, thus give different results through said "static measurements".
these results needs be extrapolated by these methods, or you garner no new information.
this information is dependent on the methods of extrapolation, thus, this information is obscured by predilections on methodology; ie, what is the best method for measuring this data?
these methods are invented by man, thus the interpretations are predicated by the inventions to derive data measurements from objects.
thus said interpretations are only as real as the methods used to define them.
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psilly the kid
Hedge wizard/ Cultist



Registered: 05/17/16
Posts: 4,615
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: akira_akuma]
#24004413 - 01/12/17 03:04 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Math wrath
-------------------- CA weed @ all times unless specified currently this high pebbles suck its turtles all the way down
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: psilly the kid]
#24004461 - 01/12/17 03:17 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 2
#24004491 - 01/12/17 03:25 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: A rock contains some trillion molecules, weighs a specific amount of weight caused by the constant force of gravity, measured by complex geometry.
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: A rock contains some trillion molecules, weighs a specific amount of weight caused by the constant force of gravity, measured by complex geometry.
But it's never the same twice. No constructed thought tool will ever be able to completely describe anything.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: pineninja]
#24004561 - 01/12/17 03:43 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Actually, there are a finite number of variables and values that go into a rock's formation. It may be an extraordinarily long number, but given enough time the same pattern should repeat at some point. Just because that time table is so large it's pretty much incomprehensible to us, doesn't mean it's impossible.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Shroomslip]
#24004572 - 01/12/17 03:47 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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i could be wrong, but the "is never the same" part might have been a quantum mechanics reference?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Shroomslip] 1
#24004618 - 01/12/17 04:05 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Actually, there are a finite number of variables and values that go into a rock's formation. It may be an extraordinarily long number, but given enough time the same pattern should repeat at some point. Just because that time table is so large it's pretty much incomprehensible to us, doesn't mean it's impossible.
it's a calculation of a mathematical object, that which is an entity constructed by intuitive computation by using abstracts to create quasi-empirical theorems.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Shroomslip] 1
#24004619 - 01/12/17 04:05 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Actually, there are a finite number of variables and values that go into a rock's formation. It may be an extraordinarily long number, but given enough time the same pattern should repeat at some point. Just because that time table is so large it's pretty much incomprehensible to us, doesn't mean it's impossible.
Fundamentally disagree. Chaos exists. During the very action of measurement you shift outcomes.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,363
Loc: The Inexpressible...
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: pineninja]
#24004696 - 01/12/17 04:30 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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True, there is no absolute theory for ALL rocks, its on a specific rock-to-rock basis.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#24004709 - 01/12/17 04:35 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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I'm also talking about that singular rock never being the same twice.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Patlal]
#24004714 - 01/12/17 04:36 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Mathematics is invented OP. It is a tool created by humans to help our brains process the universe.
--------------------
date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: pineninja]
#24004793 - 01/12/17 05:00 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: I'm also talking about that singular rock never being the same twice.
I'm not sure how this matters. We know nature is in flux. Describing that change is part of what describing our observations with math is about.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: DieCommie]
#24004803 - 01/12/17 05:04 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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So is maths intrinsically a part of nature, or a just a tool being used to somewhat describe it?
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: pineninja]
#24004813 - 01/12/17 05:07 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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I already answered that, its an invention. And its far more powerful than "somewhat". Predictions from scientific theory that uses math are accurate to over a dozen decimal places.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: DieCommie]
#24004875 - 01/12/17 05:24 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Then we agree But that "accuracy" is relative only to your sense of achievement.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: 404]
#24005883 - 01/12/17 11:12 PM (7 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
404 said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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404 said:
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use math to explain a rock
how big is the rock? what is the rock made up of? how many atoms are in the rock? what about the dimensions? do we get into the physics of the rock being ejected from a larger rock after being smashed by another rock of x proportion?
I said to explain the rock with math, not tell us how it got there or what size it is
i could explain the rock in terms of math if i had more info ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
fine, the rock is granite
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