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howsyournaggerdoin
Happy
Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Caine]
#24003289 - 01/12/17 07:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Caine said: It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)
Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24003422 - 01/12/17 08:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
SARAtonin said: Math is universal and predates organic life; it was discovered, saying it was invented is akin to saying we invented fire.
before man there was no bath, math is an extension of language. nothing more
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Patlal]
#24003498 - 01/12/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Math is an invention.
Quote:
Caine said: It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances
It can be. When you use math to describe or predict observations that is science. But math can be done without any science too. There is no requirement that math must model observations and be testable. That is why math isnt a science in the strict sense. People can, and do, do math in its own right with no regard to observations and phenomenon. (But it may be hard to get funding in that case!)
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SonicTitan
Registered: 05/17/16
Posts: 24,267
Last seen: 20 minutes, 2 seconds
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: DieCommie]
#24003512 - 01/12/17 09:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Math was created, and it is tailored to our understanding. Nature is not math but the process we use to understand it is.
-------------------- "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Caine]
#24003523 - 01/12/17 09:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Caine said: Well, I don't know, this is a tricky question. To use a pop sci example, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle - for instance, when examining an electron: you can't measure the electron's velocity and position at the same time. Of course, the electron has a position and velocity at any given time, it's just impossible to determine experimentally. Maybe that's a bad example but mathematics is full of little bumps like this one.
This is not correct. The uncertainty principle is not about experimental limitations. The full description of an electron's state does not include a position and a velocity at any given time. This is an example of science not behaving intuitively, but that doesn't make it wrong or incomplete. It means our intuition is ignorant.
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404
error
Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Shroomslip]
#24003550 - 01/12/17 09:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Math exists everywhere in the universe. The names, symbols, words etc we use to describe it may be created by us, but the principles they're based on are constant regardless of language or beings intelligent enough to name it.
yup. mathematics is basically the language of the universe... in a sense, it's what drives everything. imo, everything IS mathematics on some level, and i think it's a starting place for the argument that reality is a simulation.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Shroomslip]
#24003558 - 01/12/17 09:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Math exists everywhere in the universe. The names, symbols, words etc we use to describe it may be created by us, but the principles they're based on are constant regardless of language or beings intelligent enough to name it.
That is true of all inventions. The principles that the wheel is based on are constant regardless of beings actually constructing one. Yet we still consider the wheel an invention. A computer operates on principles that existed long before man - yet we also consider a computer to be invented.
If math is a discovery, then so is the wheel and the computer and so is everything we invent.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: 404]
#24003560 - 01/12/17 09:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said:
Quote:
Shroomslip said: Math exists everywhere in the universe. The names, symbols, words etc we use to describe it may be created by us, but the principles they're based on are constant regardless of language or beings intelligent enough to name it.
yup. mathematics is basically the language of the universe... in a sense, it's what drives everything. imo, everything IS mathematics on some level, and i think it's a starting place for the argument that reality is a simulation.
use math to explain a rock
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404
error
Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24003567 - 01/12/17 09:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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mathematics refers to a study as we know it of the underlying way things work. it's always been there, the language that you and i see it in however, has not been around forever. the universe is an infinitely sized mathematical equation that is constantly crunching/balancing out. cells divide, asteroids follow trajectories, temperatures increase and decrease, and fluids flow etc. math is there, its how everything works.Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
404 said:
Quote:
Shroomslip said: Math exists everywhere in the universe. The names, symbols, words etc we use to describe it may be created by us, but the principles they're based on are constant regardless of language or beings intelligent enough to name it.
yup. mathematics is basically the language of the universe... in a sense, it's what drives everything. imo, everything IS mathematics on some level, and i think it's a starting place for the argument that reality is a simulation.
use math to explain a rock
how big is the rock? what is the rock made up of? how many atoms are in the rock? what about the dimensions? do we get into the physics of the rock being ejected from a larger rock after being smashed by another rock of x proportion?
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psilly the kid
Hedge wizard/ Cultist
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Posts: 4,615
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: 404]
#24003575 - 01/12/17 09:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes
-------------------- CA weed @ all times unless specified currently this high pebbles suck its turtles all the way down
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SonicTitan
Registered: 05/17/16
Posts: 24,267
Last seen: 20 minutes, 2 seconds
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: 404]
#24003580 - 01/12/17 10:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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We use the process to understand but doesnt mean nature is run on it. The way we construct logic does not mean its the only way to achieve the same results math can explain. Where we are very pattern based thinkers and always find connections within things its only our logic can apply to what we see and experience. Maybe its all wrong and we are living in a delusion of thinking this is how the universe works..
I'm high as shit right now too so I am sorry if I sound dumb hahaha. Its hard to collect my thoughts right nowh haha
-------------------- "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: 404]
#24003584 - 01/12/17 10:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said:
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use math to explain a rock
how big is the rock? what is the rock made up of? how many atoms are in the rock? what about the dimensions? do we get into the physics of the rock being ejected from a larger rock after being smashed by another rock of x proportion?
I said to explain the rock with math, not tell us how it got there or what size it is
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cannabinated
Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24003616 - 01/12/17 10:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's invented cuzz its a tool lyke ur mom
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ergoticmandala
Registered: 06/03/15
Posts: 1,256
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: cannabinated]
#24003625 - 01/12/17 10:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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we were debating this in my theory of knowledge class and after giving my opinion and hearing a few other peoples' I just realized I don't give a shit its something, math is something
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404
error
Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#24003648 - 01/12/17 10:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
404 said:
Quote:
use math to explain a rock
how big is the rock? what is the rock made up of? how many atoms are in the rock? what about the dimensions? do we get into the physics of the rock being ejected from a larger rock after being smashed by another rock of x proportion?
I said to explain the rock with math, not tell us how it got there or what size it is
i could explain the rock in terms of math if i had more info ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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uan [Re: 404] 1
#24003660 - 01/12/17 10:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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We could link to some fancy equations, he wouldn't understand or believe it anyway.
Simple numbers to describe the macroscopic size and weight. A collection of vectors to describe the shape. Use quantum theory to describe the chemical makeup and behavior. Use classical mechanics to describe its macroscopic motion.
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑
Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,509
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It really just depends what we are referring to by "Math" if we mean the laws that the universe follows, then obviously we discovered them.
However Math is not equivelant to the laws of the universe, the laws are there regardless of whether there is anyone around to understand them, but mathematics is the language created by humans to try to understand these laws.
Therefore math was invented by humans, but it is used to discover universal truths about the universe.
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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"Truths about the universe" is the realm of religious mystics and philosophers. The laws you speak of are mathematical laws. They are models when it comes to describing the universe. That is an important distinction.
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XUL
OTD Janitor
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Loc: America
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: DieCommie]
#24003954 - 01/12/17 12:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Two men see two cows. One of them thought about it and discovered (learned) that there are two cows, but he is unable to communicate this idea. When he communicates it, he has invented the idea of mathematics.
That is my take.
--------------------
TRUMP 2020
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: psilly the kid]
#24004023 - 01/12/17 01:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilly the kid said: Math is disordered language is invented the math was always there looking at us
math is a big pervert.
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