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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #24002222 - 01/11/17 07:46 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Caine said:
It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances :shrug:




Can you elaborate on how it's inherently imperfect? Maybe our model/understanding of it isn't perfect but I don't understand how it itself is inherently imperfect.





i think math is something that cannot be perfect nor imperfect


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
Hepatitis G
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 11,392
Loc: 2535 W Fairmont Ave MD 21223 Flag
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Caine]
    #24002235 - 01/11/17 07:51 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Caine said:
Quote:

T-Funkadelic said:
Distance from one place to another wasn't invented.




"Physical circumstances"

Quote:

T-Funkadelic said:
Calculating distance and time in increments was always there, we just figured it out. I don't believe in god either.




"Model to describe physical circumstances"

Idk man, sounds like you agree with me but don't realize it




Maybe, I'm kinda lit lol. Those circumstances are still there, weather you're actually there to perceive them or not. Kind of like if a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it fall, does it still make a sound.


--------------------


Edited by T-Funkadelic (01/11/17 07:57 PM)


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
Howdy
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24002237 - 01/11/17 07:52 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

It's a difficult concept to explain IMO, math or at least the language and numbers we use for it is invented by us but only to explain things that are already there and inherently exists with or without our invention of what we use to explain it. It's simply a concept that's used to explain what is already there, so I guess my answer falls into math itself being invented yet at the same time it's just, as of now, an imperfect version or explanation of things yet to be discovered making it something inherent in nature....if that even makes sense lol.

I'm admittedly half drunk so excuse me if this doesn't make half as much sense as it did in my head :lol: I know what I mean but don't know if I explained it correctly.


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InvisibleCaine
lab rat
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Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 3,920
Loc: NE
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #24002244 - 01/11/17 07:56 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Caine said:
It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances :shrug:




Can you elaborate on how it's inherently imperfect? Maybe our model/understanding of it isn't perfect but I don't understand how it itself is inherently imperfect.




Well, I don't know, this is a tricky question. To use a pop sci example, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle - for instance, when examining an electron: you can't measure the electron's velocity and position at the same time. Of course, the electron has a position and velocity at any given time, it's just impossible to determine experimentally. Maybe that's a bad example but mathematics is full of little bumps like this one.


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #24002264 - 01/11/17 08:01 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

The units used and base counting is invented.

You can have different maths.  We currently use base 10.



We have to convert inches and feet into centimeters and meters because how we measure is invented.  The length is there regardless and this is discovered, we simply invent a way to measure it. 

But maths is also discovered.  We discovered that certain frequencies sound more appealing than others.  But the label as to what the number of the frequency is(say, 440 hz) is an invention.  It would be a different number if we used a different base system while still sounding the same.

Maths is both invented and discovered.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24002424 - 01/11/17 09:10 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Caine said:
It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances :shrug:





yes. correct IMO

Its just another way to describe what is already there. even that is stretching it..




Human interpretation of a natural phenomenon :grin:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #24002440 - 01/11/17 09:14 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Caine said:
It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances :shrug:





yes. correct IMO

Its just another way to describe what is already there. even that is stretching it..




Human interpretation of a natural phenomenon :grin:





But is it even a natural phenomenon? It seems more like a man made METHOD for describing.

Like a created law of some kind


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,364
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Last seen: 1 minute, 37 seconds
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24002450 - 01/11/17 09:19 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

I believe the Universe runs on math. Math is Universal. Its everywhere and within everything. Humans just made an abstract explaination of a real world thing.

Adding substracting dividing multiplying (im looking at u bunnies and mice) its all there already. Even calculus trig and geometry is in nature.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24002451 - 01/11/17 09:19 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Evolved, because I believe on science


--------------------


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #24002473 - 01/11/17 09:28 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I believe the Universe runs on math. Math is Universal. Its everywhere and within everything. Humans just made an abstract explaination of a real world thing.

Adding substracting dividing multiplying (im looking at u bunnies and mice) its all there already. Even calculus trig and geometry is in nature.





When you say math is universal it reminds me of south parks classroom poster :lol:

But interesting stuff there logical..as always


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Invisiblemaggotz


Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 7,539
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #24002497 - 01/11/17 09:42 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Caine said:
It's invented, math is an inherently imperfect model created by humans to describe physical circumstances :shrug:




Can you elaborate on how it's inherently imperfect? Maybe our model/understanding of it isn't perfect but I don't understand how it itself is inherently imperfect.



relevant:
http://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/Godel-IAS.pdf


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OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 3 hours, 40 minutes
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Patlal]
    #24002710 - 01/11/17 11:17 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

I dunno if anyone really ever bothers to watch the documentaries that get posted in threads but :http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv1j0n_the-secret-life-of-chaos_shortfilms

That's a pretty good one that is kind of related to this discussion. Even the seemingly total random chances are actually bound by simple mathematics. Math is the framing and foundation that the entire universe is built upon. Without it, atoms wouldn't have formed, and without atoms you don't get stars, without stars.. well it just keeps going on like that.

I swear there was another one that that was pretty much exactly what this thread is about but I can't seem to find it. It's not the story of maths, the great math mystery and don't think it's order and disorder. Only thing I remember from it specifically is a part of it explaining why we like or dislike music and the most well liked music follows a very aesthetically pleasing mathematical rhythm. Or something like that.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: SARAtonin] * 2
    #24002720 - 01/11/17 11:22 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

SARAtonin said:
Math is universal and predates organic life; it was discovered, saying it was invented is akin to saying we invented fire.





before man there was no bath, math is an extension of language. nothing more


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #24002906 - 01/12/17 12:55 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

constructed


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InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #24002914 - 01/12/17 01:02 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Math as a system of symbols used to convey information is invented.
The way the symbols interact and the meaning they hold to other humans trained to comprehend them is a product of human imagining.
Math is a tool conceived of by people.

Math as a means of comprehending the world is discovered.
If a human has two apples and eats one, he or she is presumably aware that only one of the apples remains, regardless of the capacity to express that awareness through mathematical symbols.
A tool effectively 'becomes' a tool when applied to a task.


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InvisibleNiffla
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,494
Loc: Texas
Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #24002944 - 01/12/17 01:21 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

math is a scam used only to weed out dumb motherfuckers like me from overpopulating schools and colleges

:barbershreds:


--------------------


HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING


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Invisiblepineninja
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Posts: 12,468
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24002953 - 01/12/17 01:26 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Math cannot explain conciousness and one must be awake to count.
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
constructed



:thumbup:


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24003103 - 01/12/17 04:01 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I believe the Universe runs on math. Math is Universal. Its everywhere and within everything. Humans just made an abstract explaination of a real world thing.

Adding substracting dividing multiplying (im looking at u bunnies and mice) its all there already. Even calculus trig and geometry is in nature.





When you say math is universal it reminds me of south parks classroom poster :lol:

But interesting stuff there logical..as always




Haha thats where i got it from. South Park is right: math is Universal as in it exists throughout the entire Universe.

For example the gravity constant. Time can be made accurate using quartz crystals. Time is math. The atomic clock runs on the propertie of atoms. Water always freezes at a specific temp. Log numbers exist in nature especially when it comes to biology.

Math is the backbone to hard sciences. They are forever intertwined.


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Offlinepsilly the kid
Hedge wizard/ Cultist
Male


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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #24003204 - 01/12/17 05:50 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Math is disordered language is invented  the math was always there looking at us


--------------------
CA weed @ all times unless specified
currently this high
pebbles suck
its turtles all the way down


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Is mathematics invented or discovered? [Re: psilly the kid] * 1
    #24003275 - 01/12/17 07:13 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quite the mind fuck yes?


--------------------


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