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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Webster10]
    #24013789 - 01/16/17 05:12 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

It's not that all stories from CNN are "fake news" it's just that CNN has such a strong liberal bias that they slant stories and highlight analysts that are pushing a very consistent narrative of open borders, multi-culturalism, endless blame and victim-ism and they are EAGER to post stories, some unsubstantiated, that are critical of Trump.

And, Trump creates a lot of  his own problems.  He has the emotional maturity of a 14 year old boy in the middle of a raging hormone episode.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #24013792 - 01/16/17 05:15 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

sh4d0ws said:
I heard the other day if Trump had just taken his inheritance money and put it in a bank (the trust fund he got from his dad) he'd actually have more money than he does now after starting huge business "empires". He's also gone bankrupt atleast once.

Seems to me he's really not as successful as a lot of you Trump lover's believe.




That's not really true.  Consider all the jobs, paychecks and careers that have been created because of his businesses ... all the mortgage payments and kids sent to college.  Money sitting in an investment account doesn't do that ... it's just electro digits in a computer.

Trump's businesses have created a lot of wealth for himself and others over the years and there's no way in hell his money sitting in an investment account would have spun off the kind of income he has generated for himself and his family.

That story is 100% dishonest.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Webster10] * 1
    #24014023 - 01/16/17 08:34 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
Fair enough, but I'd like to point out that you saying he's emotionally immature is yet another bogus talking point used by liberal-leaning establishment media to push their narrative.




I don't listen to liberal leaning media so I can't say.  I simply am talking from my experience of seeing Trump interact politically over the last 18 months.  He way overacts to small criticism, he's overly aggressive when he doesn't need to be and he uses language that, frankly, isn't a good fit for a President.

He displays all kinds of traits of emotionally immature people.  And I have no doubt at all that he has strong executive chops as they're applied to real estate development and promotion.  He seems to constantly make up facts to suit his narrative, I suspect because as President of a tightly owned company for decades, he could operate that way because he'd simply fire you if you challenged him. 

In the public square, he's being called out constantly for his creative fact production and it's obvious he makes a lot of it up on the spot.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #24014046 - 01/16/17 08:47 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Because we both understand it's possible to acheive great things without starting rich




what are you on about trump was rich from the start




Wharton grad ... came out of college with no debt ... was given a significant seed "loan" from father to get started in Real Estate ... was no doubt given credit access because of his wealthy father.

The guy had a good head start.  Having said that, he has proven he knows how to develop and promote real estate and to use his bombastic, narcissistic personality to promote himself and other brands.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24014184 - 01/16/17 09:54 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Obama created the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, where is your outrage on what has actually already occurred has opposed to what MIGHT occur?




Specifically, how did Obama create this?  What were his policies and decisions that generated this increasing wealth inequality.  I think he contributed to it somewhat, but do you truly think the President is capable of creating this kind of situation, that takes decades to set up, in his term?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24014208 - 01/16/17 10:05 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

Obama created the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, where is your outrage on what has actually already occurred has opposed to what MIGHT occur?




Specifically, how did Obama create this?  What were his policies and decisions that generated this increasing wealth inequality.  I think he contributed to it somewhat, but do you truly think the President is capable of creating this kind of situation, that takes decades to set up, in his term?




You're absolutely correct, he basically inherited a system which created this outcome. I really don't blame Obama for anything, he never had the power to govern in the first place.

With that being said, it's quite clear that the Federal Reserves policy of QE pushed the inequality into overdrive, it's all going to blow up at some point, but these people don't think long term with their greed.




I would agree that GLOBAL QE has been a major factor in the huge runup of the wealth gap, as much from Japan and Europe as the US.  The drive to keep interest rates low to hold off increasing real estate prices dropping which would have destroyed more and more middle class net worth was, on some level a tough thing to reckon with. 

I don't know the answer but I do know that it is utterly and completely irresponsible for owners/investors of these big publicly traded companies to generate big IPO's and debt offerings and essentially, turn that into billions of personal wealth.  That's just not right.  It's the legal system that enables this machine like conversion of debt to personal wealth while shifting the risk and liability to the public that needs to change.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24014311 - 01/16/17 10:53 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's not sustainable and it will end badly.  It's a matter of when, not if.

My guess is that it will occur on Trump's watch, a nice present for him to get blamed for, he might have regrets about this whole President thing at some point.




I'm not convinced it will end badly.  We are on the verge of the biggest technology surge in human history.  The age of genetic engineering is just beginning and it will change everything.  Add to that nano manufacturing and there are so many game changing possibilities to re-think energy, resources and capabilities of living creatures.

As Jason Silva put it, we are soon becoming "Homo-Evolutus" ... meaning millions of humans will be born with the intelligence of Einstein, the physical skills of Michael Jordan, the motivation and innovation of Steve Jobs, and the disease resistance of the centurions...

It is tempting, as every generation has predicted, to believe the end is near but it isn't.  What's coming to an end is the scarcity of resources era.  That's what's going to change as we literally learn to turn dirt into energy.  We're just beginning to get it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24014516 - 01/16/17 12:12 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:

It was under his watch, what did he do to stop it?  Not a word.

And your main concern is Trump doing what has already been done. :facepalm:




Two steps that he did take that he obviously felt were addressing this were getting ObamaCare passed and phasing out the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

We could argue all day whether these steps were helpful or not, but I do think, in Obama's mind, he thought these were ways of reacting to the growing wealth gap.

I heard an interview a few years ago with David Stockman that had a conversation with Obama and Biden and he was stunned at how little they understood about economics, how the markets work, etc.  I think that's probably true as Obama is much more centered around what he sees as social justice than job creation.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24014646 - 01/16/17 12:57 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Good points.

It seems to me that Obama saw his election as a mandate for social justice. The economics fell by the wayside, and we see what happens when you ignore such a glaring issue for a decade.

The real question is what is Trump's plan for inequality? He wants to kick 30 million people off their health insurance, and then tax them so he can build a wall which will accomplish zero of its intended goals.

Honestly, whats his plan for this? Is there one? Some vague infrastructure plan?




Being totally honest, I can't stand Trump and find him personally repulsive.  Having said that, I don't think he truly wants to kick everyone off their health insurance.  I think he really believes that he can single handedly negotiate better prices and bring the overall cost down.  Trump IS NOT a big corporation kind of guy.  He's more of a small FAMILY BUSINESS kind of person.  He has always kept his company privately owned and has been critical of people that make money off of money.  He's a builder ... He makes stuff ... real stuff and the stock / debt game is not really his schtick.  I think, deep down, he believes the publicly traded corporate game is a big scam and although he can't say it, he thinks he's smarter than they are.

He wants to BUILD STUFF and put a lot of people to work doing it.  I think he's a lot more like Ike than any other President in terms of his thinking and goals. 

Obviously, not in temperment.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/16/17 12:58 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24014679 - 01/16/17 01:07 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Webster10 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Trump was given $200 million.  I say he's a trust fund faggot.



Trump's rich daddy gave him a leg up on life, why do you think Webster identifies with him so much?



Because we both understand it's possible to acheive great things without starting rich and because scum with a victim mentality try to deligitamize our achievements because it makes them feel better to say "you're only that way cause you grew up rich."



It's FAR, FAR easier for someone who starts out rich to make their own fortune.  This has been shown many times in this forum.




I would bet that the percentage of kids that inherit, let's say $5mm bucks or more and actually create a new company that grows to a value of >$100mm is very, very small.  Most of the generational wealth that is passed on is often done through investment trusts where nothing new is actually created.  A lot of studies have been done to illustrate how 2nd and 3rd generations, when they are brought in to run the company, have a strong tendency to ruin it and run it into the ground.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24014852 - 01/16/17 02:06 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Good points.

It seems to me that Obama saw his election as a mandate for social justice. The economics fell by the wayside, and we see what happens when you ignore such a glaring issue for a decade.

The real question is what is Trump's plan for inequality? He wants to kick 30 million people off their health insurance, and then tax them so he can build a wall which will accomplish zero of its intended goals.

Honestly, whats his plan for this? Is there one? Some vague infrastructure plan?




Being totally honest, I can't stand Trump and find him personally repulsive.  Having said that, I don't think he truly wants to kick everyone off their health insurance.  I think he really believes that he can single handedly negotiate better prices and bring the overall cost down.  Trump IS NOT a big corporation kind of guy.  He's more of a small FAMILY BUSINESS kind of person.  He has always kept his company privately owned and has been critical of people that make money off of money.  He's a builder ... He makes stuff ... real stuff and the stock / debt game is not really his schtick.  I think, deep down, he believes the publicly traded corporate game is a big scam and although he can't say it, he thinks he's smarter than they are.

He wants to BUILD STUFF and put a lot of people to work doing it.  I think he's a lot more like Ike than any other President in terms of his thinking and goals. 

Obviously, not in temperment.




Truth be told, I'm much more wary of an emboldened GOP legislature than I am Trump. Its been my concern from day one. Its why I argued for the complete shithead of a person Hillary during the general. The country is much better served under a Democratic Congress and Senate. That won't be a reality until 2020 at the very least, barring some complete GOP meltdown. But yeah, I'm not too worried about Trump himself. Dog whistle rhetoric aside, he's a pretty liberal GOP president-elect.




I fail to see much of a difference between a R or D Congressman, both are bought and paid for by similar interests.

Trump has a much opposition from the R's today as the D's, the Ryan's, McCain's and McConnell's of the world piss on every idea Trump has proposed.




It's not so much his ideas, it's his repulsive and bombastic style in which he communicates and bullies anyone that disagrees with him.  Mature humans find this tactic unacceptable.  That's what they're reacting to.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Le_Canard] * 1
    #24016540 - 01/17/17 04:39 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
They seem to have forgotten that a large middle class is a major driver of the economy in our consumer-driven markets.




BINGO!


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24016809 - 01/17/17 08:58 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Le_Canard said:
They seem to have forgotten that a large middle class is a major driver of the economy in our consumer-driven markets.




They know all about it, but when you have $20 trillion in Federal debt, $ 6 trillion in corporate debt, $5 trillion of State debt and $4 trillion of municipal debt, even a slight move higher in growth and inflation will make the ultra low rates to move higher, that will destroy trillions in the value of debt.

If interest rates move higher, the interest payments on the debt become unmanageable. 

The US is trapped in a debt box, the rich own the debt and do NOT want to see it lose purchasing power, that's why they don't want to see real economic growth, they prefer this 1-2% growth with 0-1% inflation.




I hear what you're saying, but it's hard for me to believe that any coordinated group is trying to somehow engineer what you're talking about.  In terms of QE and ZIRP, that would suggest a strong effort to inflate the economy ... seriously, nothing that aggressive has ever happened.

I think it's Four things:

1 - 08/09 inflicted a lot more damage than most realize and the after effects are still with us
2 - Technology plus globalization plus cheap labor has dramatically squeezed the middle class
3 - Lower taxes over decades have caused a huge wealth shift
4 - The era of electro sparko currency and electro digit trading enables the conversion of debt into personal assets in a way that is simply parabolic.  You don't really need to make a product anymore to become a billionaire.  That wasn't as true in the past.  Now, just knowing how to interact with all the electro digits can create ultra wealth very quickly.

WHO the people might be that are engineering this is, to me, a total mystery because a lot of the people with the real wealth are competing like MOFO's against one another to get more of it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/17/17 09:00 AM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman] * 1
    #24016860 - 01/17/17 09:27 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The people engineering it all have similar interests, policymakers don't want to see higher interest payments which would limit how much could be spent elsewhere in the government (military, medicare, ect).

Money managers, pensions funds and the very wealthy ALL own these bonds, even a small move to 6% on the long bond would destroy trillions in value and would cause most pension funds to become officially insolvent.

Would happens to other assets classes if growth, inflation and higher rates were to occur?  Real estate and stocks would also get wacked down lower from these high levels.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-comments-on-too-strong-dollar-send-shivers-through-stock-market-2017-01-17

Trump just sent a message these people aren't going to like, he knows the US dollar must come down if growth is going to return.




Historically, rising bond prices are good for the economy.  Usually signal healthier economy.  Higher  yields mean more interest on savings ... more money for Seniors to spend.  More income from fixed income investments ... AND ... RISING stock prices.

There is no historical evidence to back up what you're saying.

Having said that, your point about rising interest rates and our ability to service our debt payment is true and clearly that is motivating a lot of the ZIRP.  So I tend to think we are in uncharted waters here.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24016861 - 01/17/17 09:28 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
congress




Congress doesn't really have authority over the FED ... they gave that up decades ago.  The FED has become, in essence, the fourth branch of our government.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: qman]
    #24016894 - 01/17/17 09:40 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Without a doubt, it's really just simple math at work. Either policymakers kick it over or markets will do it, either way it's going to get resolved.




I think we will see some kind of very creative global debt reset event in the next 2-3 years.  Japan, Europe, the US and the Saudis driving it.  Possibly tied to the launching of a new global currency administered by the BIS.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24016900 - 01/17/17 09:43 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act, and they could repeal or alter it (if there was any political will to do so)




With government authority, you use it or lose it.  Congress has no real authority over the FED anymore ... They don't really even understand the FED, let alone control them.

It's another leg of the balance of power.  I don't like the way the FED operates in secrecy but if Congress ran the money supply, we'd be in much worse shape.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24017207 - 01/17/17 11:58 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Balls is correct.  If anything, the increasing wealth gap only supports the fact that Congress is helping out its wealthy donors.




The increasing wealth gap is being caused by three factors:

1- rapid increase in technology bringing down labor costs
2- ease of exploiting the cheapest labor ... Globalization ...
3- Easier and easier to make enormous sums of money without producing any products anymore ... just trading digits on a screen

I kinda thought Obama would have put some brakes on this but, if anything, he accelerated it as did the Clintons and GWB.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24017291 - 01/17/17 12:41 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Again, I disagree.  Without the underlying companies making money, the trading you are referring to becomes worthless.




Do you have any idea how many millionaires and billionaires have been created from companies that never made a profit?  How about from ultra leveraged (200:1) currency and commodities futures trading?

Derivatives of all types?

Right now the global derivatives market value is over 900 TRILLION dollars.  That's where the big money is being made and lost on a daily basis.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/17/17 12:43 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Trump calls CNN fake news [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24017319 - 01/17/17 01:00 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I disagree.  Without the underlying companies making money, the trading you are referring to becomes worthless.



Do you have any idea how many millionaires and billionaires have been created from companies that never made a profit?  How about from ultra leveraged (200:1) currency and commodities futures trading?

Derivatives of all types?

Right now the global derivatives market value is over 900 TRILLION dollars.  That's where the big money is being made and lost on a daily basis.



Yes, I get the derivatives market as well.  Though it is massive, for every dollar someone makes on derivatives, another dollar is lost as well.  Derivatives are a zero sum game.  It's the market value of the underlying assets where real wealth is created.




I don't think you understand how leveraged trading works ... not being a dick here, just being honest.  The whole system is designed to turn debt into assets.  Whether it's our fractional reserve lending system, the way massive derivatives leverage is created or the way IPO's are funded ... the way margin trading is done ... It's all about leverage. 

The underlying assets are MANIPULATED by the way derivatives are used to create price movements. 

Banks are not, for the most part, lending money coming from depositers for all of this stuff ... It's much more complicated than that.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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