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InvisibleComebackKid
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Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE * 81
    #23999053 - 01/11/17 03:44 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Identifying Proper Surface Moisture
When to Increase Fresh Air Exchange




Introduction

I'm noticing lately a lot of dry substrates in the cult, possibly do to the dry winter months.
A lot of substrates are drying out before pins have formed.
If you want a nice pinset you must have favourable surface conditions for pinning.
That means proper hydration and care.


Pourpose of this TEK

To have a reference for desired surface moisture and caring for your substate.

I'm also going to write a step-by-step guide on how I achieve my desired hydration and what I look for during the process.
Please note that you may need to adjust these settings to your environment but I encourage everyone to follow this TEK once through before making any changes.


What You'll Need

What I'm going to be using for demonstration:


I'm trying to give as much credit where it's due. If someone notices me using other methods please let me know so I can credit the user and link to this demonstration.

Other things you'll need:

  • Garbage bag (liner)
  • Spray bottle
  • Patience


The TEK

First half of this will be examples of desirable surface conditions for pinning.
The second will be set up in the form of a grow log with notes along the way.


Surface Moisture:

While your waiting for your pinset to fill out you want to see beads of moisture covering the entire surface of your substrate.

If/when your substrate starts to dry, give it a generous misting.
Mist from above your tub, letting the mist gently fall to the surface of your sub. It will bead up all on its own.
You want to avoid pooling of water on the surface!


These have very large beads of moisture created naturally by the heat of the mycelium. It is not absolutely nessisary to have such large beads of moisture on the surface but this is my personal preference.


Alcapone2k's substrate right before a light misting. Majority of the sub is covered in beads of moisture but the left side has evaporated and needs a little attention.


Casing your sub is an effective way to keep the surace hydrated. Notice that the myc popping up through the casing will still bead with moisture when properly hydrated.

When to Increase Fresh Air Exchange:

After your pinset has filled in you should increase FAE by opening up your poly or even cracking the lid!


A few days after I increased FAE. They were from a Multispore grow so I waited on a few stragglers before increasing FAE. A handful of mushrooms had already developed quite a bit by the time I got around to it.


It's easy for fruits that are packed this densely to keep up their own microclimate. After the pins matured even more, I popped the micropore tape right out of the top holes in this tub and even out of some of the bottom holes. There was still lots of condensation just above the caps. 


Demonstration

This is how I achieve my desired surface moisture without misting.
This method uses low passive FAE while pinset is developing.
This will be a heavely detailed demonstration and will be updated with pictures as I go.
Here we go!


Preparing Bulk Substrate:

I'm not going to get too in depth with this one. Everyone prepares their substrates differently.
I linked to Bucket TEK earlier because that is the method I use to prepare my coir.

Mix up:
  • 4.5 quarts of water
  • 2 quarts vermiculite
  • 1 brick coir (650g)

This should give you roughly 10 quarts substrate once all is said and done


Spawning to Bulk Substrate:

FEB 6 2017

The first thing I like to do is start all the clean preparations.

1. Tape monotub holes!!!!!!!!!

Very important. No we are not fruiting and spawning at the same time. I have seen too many dry tubs only to find that whoever spawned it fruited it at the same time.
You may see fruits a few days sooner that way but you risk drying out your substrate before it is ready.
I'm asking you to have some patients...

2. Line your monotub

I like to use a whole garbage bag and leave it intact. Keep it closed and lay it in your tub, lining the bottom and sides.
The tape over the holes may come in handy here. You may be able to stick the liner to the tape in the holes or you could pin it to the sides with more tape. Whatever suits your fancy.

Now we can get messy

3. Mix spawn and substrate
Set aside 1-2 quarts of bulk substrate for later.

Then dump all six jars containing 4.5 quarts of spawn into your bucket containing the remaining 9 quarts of bulk substrate.
This gives you a 1:2 spawn:sub ratio.
Mix really well with your hands making sure to get in the bottom corners of your bucket.

4. Spawn your monotub
Pour the contents of the bucket into your lined monotub. Smooth it out nice and flat but keep the substrate light and airy.
Then cover it with the remaining quart of bulk substrate.

5. Cut the liner
Take a pair of scissors and carefully cut the garbage bag along the edge of the substrate.
If you did everything right you should now have a double liner in your tub.

A double liner is useful because it creates a dry barrier between the liner and the tub.

One liner will stick to the sub as it shrinks while the other will stick to the condensation inside the monotub.
This eliminates the problem of one liner favouring both sides and creating air pockets.



Now we wait for the tub to colonize.

Feb 12 2017

6 days after spawn


Beads of water have started to form on the surface of the substrate where the myc has popped up. The beads will continue to form grow after I fruit the tub.

The sub is fully colonized under the 2 quarts of casing. You could fruit now, but I'm still going to give it a couple more days before fruiting.

Fruiting your Monotub:

Feb 14 2017

8 days after spawn


I finally decided to introduce fresh air exchange!
I usually like to wait until the mycelium completely colonizes the casing layer but I used 2 quarts for this tub so the casing is pretty thick.
8 days is long enough imo. I wouldn't wait longer than 10 anyway.


Water is beading up nicely where the myc is popping through.

I will be dialing in using Pastywhyte's default setup for his Easy Micropore Dialed in Monos.
The only difference is that I apply the first layer on the bottom holes vertically.
This makes it easier for me to remove layers of tape down the road.


Feb 19 2017

13 days after spawn
We have pins!!! I'm feeling good about this one!



Increasing Fresh Air Exchange:

Feb 23 2017

17 days after spawn
Now that my pinset has filled in I want to increase FAE to encourage growth.
A dense pinset like this will help keep up a microclimate so my sub can handle a little more FAE without drying out.



I first start by removing the micropore tape from the top holes of my tub. Then I remove a layer from the bottom.
This should allow pleanty of FAE while still keeping RH inside the tub.


This set up makes it easy to peel off one layer of tape while leaving the rest undisturbed.

If you want to take it to the next level you can crack the lid of the tub a bit. I have had success with this in the past but you'll have to keep a much closer eye on your tub.

When allowing more FAE it is important to always keep an eye on the moisture of your tub. Give your mushrooms a good mist if they start to get dry.


Harvest:

Feb 26 2017
20 days after spawn

:raveface:


Edited by ComebackKid (03/22/17 06:11 AM)


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 2
    #23999155 - 01/11/17 04:09 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

I'm noticing lately a lot of dry substrates in the cult, possibly do to the dry winter months.
A lot of people are cleaning cultures with agar and using clean spawn. But their substrates dry out before pinset has come in.
If you want a nice pinset you must achieve proper surface moisture.



Droplets on the surface are normal during colonization but you want those droplets to dry up when you starting fruiting to help trigger pinning and to prevent bacterial blotching.


--------------------


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kizzle] * 3
    #23999226 - 01/11/17 04:27 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

I have yet to have pinning problems due to lack of evaporation. :shrug: Mind you, I only have 5 monotub grows.


It's benificial for the pinset to have beads of moisture on the sub surface during its development. You will notice as the pins grow they use up the water supplied by the beads.






--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
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OfflinePezam
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kizzle] * 1
    #23999240 - 01/11/17 04:30 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

I'm noticing lately a lot of dry substrates in the cult, possibly do to the dry winter months.
A lot of people are cleaning cultures with agar and using clean spawn. But their substrates dry out before pinset has come in.
If you want a nice pinset you must achieve proper surface moisture.



Droplets on the surface are normal during colonization but you want those droplets to dry up when you starting fruiting to help trigger pinning and to prevent bacterial blotching.




This is true.


--------------------


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 5
    #23999381 - 01/11/17 05:20 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

No but you do have quite a few aborts there. See how some of those pins have slimy caps? That's from being in contact with those water droplets. Those pins could eventually abort from the bacteria.

In a monotub the mycelium can store more than enough water for the entire flush. No need to keep it saturated the whole time.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kizzle] * 2
    #23999451 - 01/11/17 05:40 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

I like to have a good amount of surface moisture while waiting for the pins to set up. Whether you use a mister, a casing or a little less passive FAE to accomplish this, once the pins are in you definitely want the fae dialed up to promote healthy development.


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InvisibleTookitooki
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #23999554 - 01/11/17 06:17 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Nice write up.  Will be very helpful in the next couple weeks


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #23999571 - 01/11/17 06:24 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Thanks for clarification pasty :takingnotes:
I'm going to change some of the wording I used in this write up next time I edit..
Proper surface moisture may be a little strongly worded.

Thanks Tookitooki
I'll be updating with pictures of a PFC MS grow in the next couple weeks. Just inoculated 6 jars:thumbup:


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #23999661 - 01/11/17 07:03 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

:mushroom2: :takingnotes:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: magicMerlin] * 1
    #23999735 - 01/11/17 07:27 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Nice writeup! :rockon: :awesome:

I definitely wanna try using micropore tape in place of poly for my next tubs, a lot less hassle


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Psilosoulful] * 1
    #23999752 - 01/11/17 07:32 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Join the movement
Phasing out polyfil :awesomenod:


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflinePsilosoulful
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #23999757 - 01/11/17 07:33 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

:dj:


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Psilosoulful] * 1
    #23999764 - 01/11/17 07:35 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

:doublejointed:


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte] * 2
    #23999816 - 01/11/17 07:55 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I like to have a good amount of surface moisture while waiting for the pins to set up. Whether you use a mister, a casing or a little less passive FAE to accomplish this, once the pins are in you definitely want the fae dialed up to promote healthy development.



:whathesaid:

Actually the constant cycling of drying to damp from proper misting is a massive pinning trigger IME.


--------------------
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #23999859 - 01/11/17 08:15 AM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Join the movement
Phasing out polyfil :awesomenod:




I bought two rolls of the stuff. Pasty is on to something.


--------------------
Song Of Healing
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #24000338 - 01/11/17 03:41 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

:takingnotes:
Going to have to edit so its not as black and white. It's seeming to be more of a personal preference thing.
Would be nice to have more pictures maybe. All I have are from my last few grows which is a pretty extreme example of low passive FAE


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24000357 - 01/11/17 03:55 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Is this too dry or is this moisture on the surface ok?

No pins yet ..






It's the same mono, one picutre with lightning one without :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 2
    #24000511 - 01/11/17 05:48 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Looks good, maybe spray a bit more towards the left side of the tub,
but other than that, let it evaporate off completely and repeat :thumbup:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24000705 - 01/11/17 07:10 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Join the movement
Phasing out polyfil :awesomenod:




I used ezfelt my last grow. Worked OK, I still need to learn to read my monos better.  Hopefully  LAGM 2017 helps me with that.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Psilosoulful] * 2
    #24000774 - 01/11/17 07:39 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Looks good, maybe spray a bit more towards the left side of the tub,
but other than that, let it evaporate off completely and repeat :thumbup:



:whathesaid:
Looks good man! Do you mind if I use your pictures as an example in my thread?

Just be careful not to let it get too dry or you risk mycelium matting on the surface.
If you're watching your tub that shouldn't be an issue though :thumbup:


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


Edited by ComebackKid (01/11/17 07:58 PM)


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24000796 - 01/11/17 07:52 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Thank you very much.

But now i am a Bit confused, since it's also Stated in this Thread, that a drying out surface is a pinning trigger or is it meint when the pinning has already started?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 3
    #24000820 - 01/11/17 08:00 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Evaporation from the surface is a pinning trigger. Drying out causes death of the substrate. As the evaporation occurs you need to ensure the surface is still moist. With bulk often the heat produced by the sub can produce more condensation to be evaporated. If the FAE is too high then the surface can indeed dry out too much.

One of the reasons cakes are a great way to learn is because they stress the principle that we only mist when water from the previous mist has dissipated. But we need to ensure we mist enough so the cakes do not dry out.

With bulk it's no different except that much of our RH is supplied by the substrate rather than a chamber. But the cycle is the same.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24000873 - 01/11/17 08:18 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

great info in hurr:takingnotes:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: projectbadass]
    #24001106 - 01/11/17 09:48 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

thank you very much pasty! :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24001195 - 01/11/17 10:33 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Good thread CBK.

The fourth of january I spawned my very first monotub ever.. it's and edible (Stropharia rugosoannulata their grow cycle is similar to cubes)

1.5 inches holes, tight in the botton loose on top (like Frank'S)
The air in the room is real dry, got a cool mist humidifier.
RH in the mono is high tough, theres a lot of mist on the mycelium...



--------------------
looking for a sclerotia producer print


Edited by Martinsapin (01/11/17 10:40 PM)


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Martinsapin] * 1
    #24001212 - 01/11/17 10:39 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

That mycelium looks cloudy, could indicate some contaminates affecting it's normal growth.
Keep a close eye on it, and give it a good misting to ensure you kickstart evaporation.

:goodluck:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Martinsapin]
    #24001467 - 01/11/17 11:55 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

Thankyou!
I've never grown that Species of mushroom before so I can't give you any advice but They're really nice looking mushrooms! I hope your grow goes well! :goodluck:
This write up was for Cubensis cultivation and may, or may not be good for what you're growing


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24003574 - 01/12/17 06:58 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Overnight the droplets on the surface / beds of moisture disappeared because I increased FAE (some fanning).

Therefore I misted this morning and the surface moisture disappears after half a hour so I misted again. I overmisted it a bit so I tilted the whole mono to get rid of the water on the surface.

Now it seems quite ok.

But I cant establish these small droplets on the surface anymore. When I mist, the surface gets glistening wet but there are no droplets.

Am I doing something wrong or is everything fine? Is it to wet in the corners? To dry in the middle? What can I do?


Here some pictures:




These black parts of the substrate on the three right pictures are only shadows from my arms holding the camera :wink:


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




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Edited by AlCapone2k (01/12/17 06:59 PM)


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24003615 - 01/12/17 07:10 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Don't worry about getting it perfect, just focus on upping that FAE, that surface looks soaked and will likely delay pinning.
I'd run a fan in the same room pointed away from the tub. Good luck man


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #24003636 - 01/12/17 07:18 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Actually I don't have a fan :frown:

If I fan it to increase the FAE, I'll get a quite dry surface in the middle.

Any idea how to do it without a fan?


--------------------
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24003787 - 01/12/17 08:16 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Just keep it as is and get to practicing that misting. It takes practice but you will get it right. Once the surface dries, you'll find you gotta mist at least once a day.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24003795 - 01/12/17 08:19 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

If the surface is drying out in a half hour I would tighten up the holes a bit :shrug: monotubs are suposed to be generally low maintenance. If you're misting every half hour your not dialed in properly.

When misting you want to mist from far away and let the mist gently fall on the surface. They should bead up on their own.
If you mist too close you risk pooling.

EDIT: I wrote this before I saw Mad's comment. Obviously take his advice.
Although, I would advise against a fan.
A properly dialed in monotub will circulate fresh air all on its own. No need to over-complicate anything by adding extra variables.
Like Mad said leave it for now and focus on one thing at a time


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Edited by ComebackKid (01/12/17 08:44 PM)


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24003866 - 01/12/17 08:50 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Just keep it as is and get to practicing that misting. It takes practice but you will get it right. Once the surface dries, you'll find you gotta mist at least once a day.




thank you, I hope I haven't messed up the whole mono tub now and I will get some fruits eventhough the moisture is not perfect



Quote:

ComebackKid said:
If the surface is drying out in a half hour I would tighten up the holes a bit :shrug: monotubs are suposed to be generally low maintenance. If you're misting every half hour your not dialed in properly.

When misting you want to mist from far away and let the mist gently fall on the surface. They should bead up on their own.
If you mist too close you risk pooling.

EDIT: I wrote this before I saw Mad's comment. Obviously take his advice.
Although, I would advise against a fan.
A properly dialed in monotub will circulate fresh air all on its own. No need to over-complicate anything by adding extra variables.
Like Mad said leave it for now and focus on one thing at a time





The holes are really, really tight. I can't get them more tight, the poly can't even move a bit inside the hole. I think the problem is, that since yesterday I am fanning twice or three times a day to maintain FAE, because it seemed that my sub didn't get enough FAE.

Therefore the RH inside the mono was very low the whole day and I had to mist a lot.

So you also recommend like Mad to just take an eye on the surface and if it dries out, give it a slight mist?!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24003895 - 01/12/17 09:04 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

So you also recommend like Mad to just take an eye on the surface and if it dries out, give it a slight mist?!




This helps. But don't overdo it.
I can see some hyphal knots/primodia there. IMO it will fruit soon. :thumbup:
The evaporation of the moist surface triggers pinning a lot IME.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24003900 - 01/12/17 09:06 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Don't even worry about fanning a mono. The heat from the substrate cycles the air.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24003993 - 01/12/17 09:49 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Thank you guys, I will keep you updated.

Sorry CCK for hijacking your thread but I think the answers to my questions could also help future guys reading in this thread! :smile:

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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24004026 - 01/12/17 10:01 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Bro hijack away. It's helping me fine tune the OP so thank you!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24004069 - 01/12/17 10:17 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Don't even worry about fanning a mono. The heat from the substrate cycles the air.






And what is with misting? I know that it should be alright if dialed in correctly, but if the surface dries out, shall I mist it eventhough I believe to see some hyphal knots? :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24004073 - 01/12/17 10:18 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

If it's dry mist it. You can then dial it in for less FAE but always mist if it appears to be drying out.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24004082 - 01/12/17 10:21 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Yep. And tbh if the surface dries out, it seems to just dry out at least once a day. Even if you stuff it tight AF. Maybe it's just my climate? :shrug: but it makes sense to me that if the sub lost too much water to hold the humidity to maintain surface hydration, it needs to be replaced regularly through misting.

The trick is learning how much to mist. Not too much or not too little, it's a Goldilocks zone. I'd say it took me 6+ months of misting substrates every day before I could confidently mist properly every time. Although I didn't have a tek like this to help me out xD it was all trial and error. I bet people will learn much quicker now.


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Edited by Mad Season (01/12/17 10:28 PM)


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #24004114 - 01/12/17 10:31 PM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Hey mad. . . It's yer climate :wink:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #24004531 - 01/13/17 12:35 AM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Holy shit Mad! It must be dry as fuck where you are!
I don't need to mist at all until after I've opened my tub up a bit!
Pastywhyte's default setup for his easy MP dialed monos really does all the work for me.
I'm using that, along with not fruiting at spawn, as the backbone of the future demonstration.
It makes hydration as easy as possible and is a perfect reference point weather someone prefers to have evaporation as a pinning trigger or not.
(Although climate may throw a wrench or two here and there)
Appreciate the kind words. Still gotta iron out the kinks


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24004657 - 01/13/17 01:17 AM (6 years, 16 days ago)

I also experienced, that it's easier to Maintain a good Surface moisture, when you don't fruit at spawning.


And thank you to your answers, I hope I wont do anything wrong :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24004666 - 01/13/17 01:18 AM (6 years, 16 days ago)

Great thread, CBK!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #24008871 - 01/14/17 01:33 PM (6 years, 14 days ago)

Hey guys,

what do you think?




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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24009315 - 01/14/17 06:47 PM (6 years, 14 days ago)

It looks a little distressed in comparison to last time but should be okay. Possibly due to the manual fanning and extreme cycle of drying out and rehydrating.
I see knotting along the edges so that's a good sign but can't really tell from the picture if it's hydrated or not.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24020050 - 01/18/17 10:47 PM (6 years, 10 days ago)

:takingnotes:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: fungusam0ngus] * 1
    #24022692 - 01/19/17 08:20 PM (6 years, 9 days ago)

Looks dry and starting to mat up... Might get some fruits


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: spore-ty] * 1
    #24022712 - 01/19/17 08:28 PM (6 years, 9 days ago)

threw it away guys, got a light sour smell :smile:

I'll going to start the next mono in a few minutes, this time with micropore tape. My dry house does not allow me to dial it in right wih Poly :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24022927 - 01/19/17 10:20 PM (6 years, 9 days ago)

What? Nooooo, it was such a promising looking tub :sad:
Good luck with your next one!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24023005 - 01/19/17 10:56 PM (6 years, 9 days ago)

Yeah, I thought so too, but if I think back, the spawn was a bit suspicious.

I noticed that when I shook my spawn right now before spawning into CVG, the rye berries separated from each other very easily. This wasn't that easy with the rye berries of the tub on the picture. So maybe the spawn was the fault for this sour smell.

I think this Tub will be better now, it looks really good and is now in colonization mode with a small pseudo-casing of CVG :smile:

Regards


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24023059 - 01/19/17 11:16 PM (6 years, 9 days ago)

I never dump monos until I see mold.  Now we'll never know lol

My goal is to attain this surface moisture without ever misting.  Some combination of fruiting late, packing polyfil tight, waiting for beads, then loosening out polyfil/removing top polyfil seems to be getting pretty good surface moisture for me.

I also run a humidifier in the grow room at 60% RH to create a more humid envronment in the grow-room.  Easier to fill up a 1 gallon jug every 2 days than to constantly be looking at when to mist.



Here's that tub coming along CBK

I do wonder what's lurking beneath that patch with no pins...


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle] * 1
    #24023165 - 01/20/17 12:01 AM (6 years, 9 days ago)

Lookin good Dill
It is a bit odd that they're not pinning that spot though you're right. The conditions are consistent across the whole tub too :shrug:
I'm still guessing mold but nothing has popped up yet. Fingers crossed!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 2
    #24023262 - 01/20/17 12:35 AM (6 years, 9 days ago)

Yeah, I also was waiting for mold to come but nothing happened. Actually I live in Small Students Apartment and I can't risk to have mold spores flying around Here. So I throw stuff away a Bit early maybe.

Whatever, it's shit genetic anyway, had a tub with the Same genetic that didnt fruit after 30days of fruitung :laugh:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24029196 - 01/22/17 06:35 AM (6 years, 6 days ago)

:bumpthread:

why? read the thread. thats why


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24029616 - 01/22/17 12:31 PM (6 years, 6 days ago)

Why what? :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24029724 - 01/22/17 03:01 PM (6 years, 6 days ago)

I had a tray that smelled like dirty socks and it fruited like a boss.  Never molded.  Got 4 flushes out of it.  Sometimes you never know.  The myc can handle a little bacteria.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: WeavieWonder] * 1
    #24029872 - 01/22/17 05:34 PM (6 years, 6 days ago)

great info here. I always worries about to much moisture on my subs with all the beading. I'll keep this in mind when trying to dial in the monos.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24030305 - 01/22/17 08:49 PM (6 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

AlCapone2k said:
Why what? :smile:




haha.

i think its useful and people always ask about 'should i fruit' so i bumped the thread for others
who didnt see it.

also to upload a pic.

this is what your 100% colonized substrates should look before fruiting. these had no misting.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24031771 - 01/23/17 05:10 AM (6 years, 6 days ago)

I was confused at first too. Didn't realize randy was bumping the thread :lol:
Thanks mushboy, cool if I steal that pic?
I'm starting a small collection and gunna update when I start the grow log portion.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24031783 - 01/23/17 05:15 AM (6 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
I was confused at first too. Didn't realize randy was bumping the thread :lol:
Thanks mushboy, cool if I steal that pic?
I'm starting a small collection and gunna update when I start the grow log portion.




yah go for it.. ill try to take glammer shots before/after misting and stuff:thumbup:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24032157 - 01/23/17 07:59 AM (6 years, 5 days ago)

:takingnotes:
Keep the research goin! I'm lovin this thread
Following....
I have 6 monotubs all spawned out, first time I've had more than one colonized tub at the same time..
Been trying different methods of spawning/fruiting etc
So far I feel most confident with taping the holes first vs fruiting at spawn.
I am ATM slowly introducing air with minimal FAE to 3 of the colonized tubs, while misting every other day or when necessary to keep surface covered in micro beads.

I Have had the holes taped etc and I still have had a problem with dry monotubs.
sometimes with no condensation on the walls (though that may be temps) and surface seeming dry.
This may be because its winter?
I have had to open the monotubs and mist to compensate for the dryness. Most tubs are fully colonized so I am slowly giving them air with polyfil in some of the holes. One tub is fruiting, though more on that later...
I will post many photos soon that you may use!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Motherload] * 1
    #24032898 - 01/23/17 07:10 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

That's odd. Have you considered adding more water when preparing your bulk sub?

Thanks mushboy! :rockon:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24033043 - 01/23/17 08:29 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

Yeah I've been adding 4.25 quarts of water instead of just 4 though I may bump it up to 4.5. But at this point humidity is rising again, winter has been short this year... I was at 20 to 30% RH for awhile and now I'm back up to 50 - 60% RH
I didn't want to add too much water and create anaerobic environments..

What are your suggestions on water? 4.5 quarts wont hurt anything?

When you squeeze your coco/verm does it drizzle a bit of water or only a few drips?

I'll take photos today


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Motherload] * 1
    #24033247 - 01/23/17 10:27 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

I've personally been using 4.5 but I have a hard time believing that 4.25 would not be sufficient. Either way it may be worth a shot!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24033419 - 01/23/17 11:38 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

what brand of coco??

on the left is a brand from the local garden supply joint.. nice people:thumbup:

the one on the right is ecoearth from random megashit mart. asshole everywhere.

anyway the 'premo' brand is $1 more but holds a solid 5qaurts everytime.
the ecoearth barely hold 4.5.

the ecoearth even weighs slightly more..:shrug:
vseco


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24033426 - 01/23/17 11:44 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

Wow! You'd think that at least weight would be reliable!!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24033436 - 01/23/17 11:48 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

Coir usually has a very high salt content.
I bet the garden store brand is flushed and buffered better compared to ecoearth


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24033447 - 01/23/17 11:55 PM (6 years, 5 days ago)

ive found nails, bug body parts... finger nail chunks.. all kinds of shit in ecoearth.
the shit at the garden store is hella clean. and really really hard to break up.

eco can brake up by hand sometimes.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24034557 - 01/24/17 06:04 AM (6 years, 4 days ago)

Yea I just bought a few big blocks from another supplier and was disappointed to find that after bucket tek it was completely soaked because it didn't have enough fine coir to absorb all the water... So mileage may vary with the amount of water to add to different brands of coir. 
Brand is Coco Earth, I don't recommend.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle] * 1
    #24035175 - 01/24/17 02:28 PM (6 years, 4 days ago)

I like the Exoterra stuff, once I bought coco coir from the garden store and then realized, when I was at home, that it's fertilized.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24050772 - 01/30/17 01:53 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Here some pictures of a - in my opinion - nice surface moisture. Pins are forming, still very small, but I think tomorrow or the day after I will increase FAE a bit by moving the upper Micropore-Tape of the upper holes :smile:



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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24050805 - 01/30/17 03:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Nice stuff AL! Got some fat knots there!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24070172 - 02/07/17 12:50 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Updated the grow log portion

FEB 6 2017

Spawned a 66qt monotub with:
4.5 quarts PFC grain spawn
1 brick coir
2 quarts verm
4.5 quarts water



I used 2 quarts of the bulk sub as a casing layer.

Havent grown this variety before. Excited to see how the PF Classic performs


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24070210 - 02/07/17 01:01 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Sweet!  Do you replace the Tuck Tape with micropore or poly or just leave it?  Sorry if I've missed the explanation previously.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #24070227 - 02/07/17 01:07 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I'll be replacing with MP tape.
I use pastys default setup from his easy micropore dialed monos tek
Although I have been itching to try out unmodified  lately :lol:

There's a rough outline of the procedures in the demonstration portion of the OP


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24070286 - 02/07/17 01:34 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, CBK! I was being lazy...I read back through and see the mp dial in.  Hope the tub blows up for ya!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #24070351 - 02/07/17 02:04 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks man! Meee too  :loldongs:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24085919 - 02/13/17 05:24 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Feb 12 2017

6 days after spawn


Beads of water have started to form on the surface of the substrate where the myc has popped through. The drops will continue to form grow after I fruit the tub.

The sub is fully colonized under the 2 quarts of casing but I'm still going to give it a couple more days before fruiting.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24086079 - 02/13/17 06:56 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

My beads stick around until harvest

You know what I don't even think it's condensation, I feel like it is the mycelium pumping out water dewdrops... could be wrong though

Getting the surface moisture has made growing monos such a breeze... I've stopped misting entirely and just focus on dialing in the mono and knowing when to open up FAE and when to hold off. 

I think it helps that I run a humidifier in the room at 60%RH, I'm not sure how well this would work without that boost in humidity. 

Been having a hard time to get the dew to form around the perimeter of the tub, it's always a bit drier near the walls... I really don't want to start misting though


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle]
    #24086155 - 02/13/17 07:42 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah man same for me. The beads shrink a little bit but never disappear entirely.
My last tub the pinset was so dense that there was almost no surface left though :lol:



Quote:

Thedillestpickle said:
Getting the surface moisture has made growing monos such a breeze... I've stopped misting entirely and just focus on dialing in the mono and knowing when to open up FAE and when to hold off. 
This!
Exactly what inspired me to do this whole write up in the first place.


I think it helps that I run a humidifier in the room at 60%RH, I'm not sure how well this would work without that boost in humidity. 
Give it a shot. I have a feeling the humidifier is overkill. But whatever works.

Been having a hard time to get the dew to form around the perimeter of the tub, it's always a bit drier near the walls... I really don't want to start misting though
The corners of my sub used to always be dry and pinless. I have misted them in the past and it helps with pinset but I found that thicker casing during spawn helps even out the moisture and pinset on its own




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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24088573 - 02/14/17 07:40 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

ahh ok I haven't been casing at all. I'll give that shot next weekend


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle]
    #24089074 - 02/14/17 02:36 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Next time you spawn a 66qt tub, measure and set aside 1-2qts bulk sub.
Then after you mix your spawn just layer the top with the bulk you set aside.

I've found 2 quarts to be my magic number so far but I'm still playing around with it


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24103986 - 02/20/17 05:59 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Two updates:

Feb 14 2017

8 days after spawn


I finally decided to introduce fresh air exchange!
I usually like to wait until the mycelium completely colonizes the casing layer but I used 2 quarts for this tub so the casing is pretty thick.
8 days is long enough imo. I wouldn't wait longer than 10 anyway.


Water is beading up nicely where the myc is popping through.

Feb 19 2017

13 days after spawn
Just checked on my tub. We have pins!!!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24104022 - 02/20/17 06:16 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

:awetongue:

13 days is legit.:cheers:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy]
    #24104575 - 02/20/17 03:37 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks dude! It was knotting up pretty good by day 10 even to the point where one of the cluster of knots had taken a bit of shape.



It's impossible to see all the knots due to flash but you can definitely make out some primordia back there.

Just goes to show the power of FAE as a pinning trigger I'd say


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24104800 - 02/20/17 06:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

:solidnod:

im dreading whenever i go back to work cause i will have to redial in my shit with less FAE
cause ill need to hold in the moisture better since i wont be home.

time to create the ultimate automated misting machine tek...



the wife :wink: she works from home. score!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy]
    #24112222 - 02/23/17 07:17 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Increased FAE today
Updated OP



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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24112242 - 02/23/17 07:25 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm :takingnotes::takingnotes:

:rockon:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: seventy7]
    #24112309 - 02/23/17 08:07 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

that pinset looks delicious:awetongue:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy]
    #24112984 - 02/23/17 06:14 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks dude! It's actually pretty rediculous. Still primordia forming and baby pins everywhere. Everywhere!

I can't wait to see what this variety has to offer in bottles. Hoping for larger fruits due to less surface area but we'll see. Maybe bottom watering will help too?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24113054 - 02/23/17 06:53 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: catnip40]
    #24113584 - 02/23/17 10:46 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I'm a noob trying to understand proper surface moisture / when to increase FAE. I've been using a plastic magnification sheet to inspect the subs (micro-monos) and it's helped so much. I get a day or two warning on things that aren't right, and a chance to improve conditions before it all gets wrecked. As a noob it's making it a lot easier to see what the sub wants.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: crowseed]
    #24113605 - 02/23/17 10:59 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I'm glad to hear that's working for you. But I'm not quite sure what you mean by magnification sheet macro monos.
The moisture should be visible without magnification.
What exactly are you finding with the magnification sheet? :takingnotes:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24113907 - 02/24/17 01:31 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Hi. I meant the tubs I have are micro-monos (smaller than mini-monos). I'm seeing the moisture levels much more clearly with magnification and finally get it. I'd been spraying too much without realising and got some bacteria on some pin caps in one tub. I was able to remove the pins as soon as they became infected and it seems to have stopped spreading. I could finally see I was putting too much moisture in there I guess, though it would be obvious to a non-noob. Stuff was just more visible and I could see changes more quickly. I'd cased with way too much verm as well. Maybe the penny would have dropped anyway, but the magnification really helped.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24114476 - 02/24/17 04:59 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
that pinset looks delicious:awetongue:




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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: magicMerlin]
    #24121939 - 02/27/17 03:47 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)


Harvested this morning :awetongue:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24121945 - 02/27/17 03:49 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

:kaneclap:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Tookitooki]
    #24122012 - 02/27/17 04:14 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Your pinsets have been consistently excellent

So I'm trying to understand what you are doing.  It seems you wait until fully colonized, then you "fruit" as in removing tape and replacing with double layered micropore.  And then you wait for as long as it takes until you have a nice pinset, misting if needed to achieve nice beads of moisture.  Once you have the pinset in you increase FAE even more by removing one layer of micropore from the bottom holes and completely removing all the micropore from the top holes.

Did I get that right?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle]
    #24122069 - 02/27/17 04:42 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Yup that pretty much sums it up!
I even wait for the pins to mature a bit before removing layers of tape.

Thanks man :cheers:
This is what I found works for me so far but I'm always tweaking little things here and there with every grow


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24125530 - 02/28/17 05:51 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

nice post brotha! ive also been thinking the winter months have dried everyones subs and they must be told!

A+ very informative info on correct moisture levels, thanks!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: SpicyWizard]
    #24125835 - 02/28/17 08:39 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

:cheers:
Thanks for dropping a line Ralph
Hey if you ever figure out how to make galleries public let me know!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24127194 - 03/01/17 06:17 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

This seems like the right thread since I think you'll know what I'm talking about CBK

You run your tubs in three different FAE stages:
1. taped up for substrate colonization
2. pinning conditions with medium FAE
3. maximum FAE for remainder of flush

I have a few tubs that have recently finished their first flush and I'm wondering how to set the FAE to set up for a nice second flush.  Should I revert the FAE back to stage 2 with pinning conditions?  :strokebeard:

BTW i just received a case of 6 two-inch micropore tape rolls. :rockon:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle]
    #24127366 - 03/01/17 07:23 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

I usually just leave them open after I harvest. Partly out of laziness but mostly because I don't get much for a pinset on the second flush anyway.
Just give a heavy mist and keep an eye on the surface.
If it's drying quickly and you gotta cover the holes up to keep the surface happy, then do it. If you don't mind misting here and there or if your heavy mist was enough then don't bother.

:lol: damn I'm jealous! I cant wait to use up this 1"
I bought a pack of 12 online so its going to take a while
Whered you find your 2 inch?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24139125 - 03/06/17 12:52 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Was just rereading some of this thread and realized you have been casing all your tubs... ahh I forgot about that.

Spawning a couple tubs today, so I'm going to remember to case with 2 qt CVG

meanwhile, here's a tub I spawned 10 days ago, uncased.  I'm stoked to see how this tub turns out because the bulk sub contains 2 full gallons of water.   



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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle]
    #24139144 - 03/06/17 12:58 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Holy shit! 8 quarts water to one brick of coir?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24139158 - 03/06/17 01:02 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

:standingby:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24139160 - 03/06/17 01:03 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Holy shit! 8 quarts water to one brick of coir?




lol no that would be a mess

8 qt water to 1500g coir, 1 qt verm, 1/4 cup gypsum, 10 myco-quarts spawn


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Thedillestpickle]
    #24139161 - 03/06/17 01:04 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

:freewilly:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Josex]
    #24139174 - 03/06/17 01:09 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Ahaha that sounds better :lol:
I'd imagine 2 gallons to a brick would just be mud at that point


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24139204 - 03/06/17 01:22 AM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Awesome thread cbk!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Nobler Hino]
    #24158139 - 03/13/17 04:48 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Okay so I fixed my humidity problem with two solutions.
First, I switch coco coir brands..
I was using "Eco Earth" the only brand NOT recommended xD
Right now I'm using two different organic brands, both are expanding almost twice as much as the eco earth.
Second, the majority of my monotubs were simply too big.
I switched from 64qt to 56qt. THAT was KEY. Gave me 4 inch thick substrate instead of under 3 inches as well as walls FILLED with humidity.
I raised the room humidity the tubs are in by sealing up the doors better and putting a sonic mister behind a fan in the room..

I spawn with tape over the holes, and I separate a quart of "casing" (croir/verm) in a jar. Wait about 7 days, within one of those days pressure cook the jar.
When the tub is ready/colonized I also check to see if I can lift and move the tub without warping/cracking the substrate. I leave it flat on the ground while colonizing with holes taped until it holds its shape then I can stack them up without worrying about Warping and cracking substrates..
When colonized I take my sterilized jar of "casing" and case the substrate with gloves on. Right after I case it I put polyfil in top holes loosely. I put 1 layer of micro pore tape for the side facing the wall. I put one layer of micro pore for the front with a second layer over just the top half of the front /fan facing holes. I keep it with micro pore tape until I want to increase FAE, then I switch it out with polyfil... it works better for me for full fae..
I keep the actual room at around 70% to 80% humidity and so I am able to fan the boxes like mad without loosing humidity.
I've now had two of the best flushes I've ever had...
Sorry I did not post photos before but I will now as soon as this flush finishes!

With the new boxes and better coco coir I might mist ONE time for the first flush. When my casing layer gets colonized I mist a once but only if needed..


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Motherload]
    #24158463 - 03/13/17 07:52 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

That's odd. I've never heard anyone reccomend against eco earth before.
That's the brand I have been using. I do find that it expands better if you break it up first though


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24158514 - 03/13/17 08:15 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Well on page four someone showed evidence of a different brand being better for 1$ extra. It was then that I switched brands and had incredible results for just about a dollar or so more. I'm now putting 5.5 quarts of water in each tub! I could probably do 6 quarts with no problems this stuff really expands at least 20%-50% more volume than eco earth.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Motherload]
    #24158524 - 03/13/17 08:18 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

What brand?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24158552 - 03/13/17 08:34 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003DQPS5U/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489425765&sr=8-1-fkmr1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N7JNYCZ/ref=mp_s_a_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1489425668&sr=8-16&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65

Both performed equally. Order it with your vermiculite to get free shipping.
I liked the worm factory brand because they shipped it straight in a cardboard box absolutely no plastic/trash or even label.
Oh and I just realized the second link no longer carries 5pack just 10pack..


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Motherload]
    #24158589 - 03/13/17 08:49 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Sweet...thanks!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24190729 - 03/25/17 11:23 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Good stuff CBK!
Thank you!


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: PsiloPsychIn]
    #24192151 - 03/25/17 11:26 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Wonderful thread, very informative! Excited to give micropore tape a try on my next tub.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Om Namo Shivaya]
    #24240236 - 04/13/17 08:49 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

:bump:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: van hatton]
    #24290613 - 05/03/17 03:58 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Nice update!

Im still working on getting my 16 qt tubs to work more efficiently.  Maybe fruiting at spawning is a mistake.  I'm gonna tie the tubs inside a trash bag for the spawn run, see if that makes a difference.


Btw I'm fully convinced that you can grow some shrooms.  Inspiring


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kenetic]
    #24291094 - 05/03/17 07:40 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Why do u think it was a mistake?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mynakedrat]
    #24291482 - 05/03/17 12:56 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

For my particular tubs because the surface of the sub has been getting a little firm from drying and I have to mist.  I normally wouldnt even mist or anything on a normal tub.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kenetic]
    #24291483 - 05/03/17 12:57 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Im getting plenty of shrooms but it neefs to be a little more efficient.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kenetic]
    #24291559 - 05/03/17 03:06 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kenetic said:
Im getting plenty of shrooms but it neefs to be a little more efficient.





I do nothing with mine until day 5, and then I open them for a look and then just keep them closed until day 10 or when pinning starts (Typical GT).

If you start misting early you have to keep at it and it gets to be a pita. It's really easy now. Very low maint.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kenetic] * 1
    #24291561 - 05/03/17 03:08 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Ime those smaller tubs dry out way quicker as well. Especially if you're cracking the lid for fae you'll probably be misting weather you fruit at spawn or not
But like crispy said you're going to save yourself some hassle by fruiting fully colonized.

The advantages of fruiting fully colonized outweighs fruiting at spawn every time


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24291563 - 05/03/17 03:10 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

So waiting to fruit until full colonization will yield better?


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24291565 - 05/03/17 03:11 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Yup. Fully colonized gives you that edge in your favor for sure...Ahh shroomworld...:smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24291568 - 05/03/17 03:13 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not saying that yield is better, that would have to be looked at objectively.
With edible (non actives) full colonization correlates to better yield generally.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24291584 - 05/03/17 03:29 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I have a few tubs going both ways. I like fruiting at spawn, but my spawn is shit. I know there is bacteria in there. It seems this helps, not eliminates, but helps reduce the speed that mold comes on. Mold doesn't seem to like near as much FAE as shrooms do.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kenetic]
    #24335782 - 05/20/17 11:12 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Great Tek!  Followed along with great results for my first monotub.

Few concerns though, I have noticed condensation within some of the new tubs is widely different, some I can't see into the tubs because there is so much, and some are clear because there appears to be no humidity inside the tub.

First tub: good condensation, droplets on surface.
Second tub: good condensation, droplets on surface.
third tub: no condensation, not droplets on surface, AND water pooling underneath the liner...

Im not sure what happened with the third tub, as they are all same Tek and specs.  The liner I used was a garbage bag, cut so that it becomes two layers.  Is it possible it wasn't flush enough with the tub, or there is a hole I cannot see below where water is pooling out?  Very confused, but I have misted it into pinning, but obviously this is kinda not the point of a monotub if I have to cater to it every day.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: thegwd]
    #24335787 - 05/20/17 11:14 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

pics would help.

nice avatar:cool:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24348308 - 05/25/17 04:45 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Hey there, I have a question about the holes for FAE. You guys (and lots of others) have talked about holes at the bottom of the tub, as well as at the top.

I am a little confused. By holes at the bottom, do you mean where the substate is?

I have a monotub with lots of small 5mm (sorry on the metric system) holes all the way around about 1" under the lid on all 4 walls of the tub. I'm not using any polyfill or anything to block the holes.
What are the holes at the bottom that you are talking about?

I have just been misting and fanning in the morning, when i get home from work & before I go to bed. Plenty of condensation on the lid of the tub so humidity is high.

A couple of weeks ago the  sub had fully colonised under aluminum foil in the tub. I took off the foil, there was plenty of moisture starting to accumulate on the substrate. and i didn't get any pins after 7 days and there looked to be a slightly brownish tinge.  I took the advice of a friend & cased it with 50:50 coir / verm. Prob about 1" thick at most. I  Let the casing colonise for a week in the dark.
I checked it & there were 3 shrooms growing through the casing, so i figured it was time to open it to the light.
Those shrooms grew, and have had 3 others, plus a few other pins scattered along one length of the tub. No pins in the main body and none on the other length.  Very few pins all up, however I can see that the myc has poked through all thru the casing. its been 10 days since i opened it up to the light.

I did have a reptile heat mat under it while spawning the casing, and this did get pretty hot at times (my kids playing with the thermostat settings) so have now removed this.

The fruits i have had look lovely (unsure of strain), but there just aint that many of them. How long do you think I should expect to wait for more pinning? Would it be normal for it to take a few weeks?

Temperatures are at around 64-70F between night & day.

Do I need more FAE? Casing is moist so don't want to add too much h20
Could I have killed a load of the myc with the heat mat?

Thanks in advance!

peace


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Permadelica]
    #24348371 - 05/25/17 05:12 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Hahahaha

Looks like you have a while to go


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Permadelica]
    #24361042 - 05/30/17 05:13 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Things seem to be moving along now. About 30 -40 pins & babies poking through the casing! :smile:


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 3
    #24533598 - 08/06/17 05:47 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

i know this threads a little old. but i love this thread. thought i would post some pictures. i don't really observe the conditions when i do my tubs with the way i run them. but this is a good example of pinning with the beads of moisture on the surface. cool thread comebackkid! what i find so cool about it is, that in my environment i run, i pretty much do this same thing. my environment does it all without any effort. but its a good thing to look at what is providing ques to your fruiting environmental changes. once you dial in your setup, you shouldn't have to do any work. it appears you colonize with tape or what not. i don't do this. i keep poly or pinky filters in tighter. this removes the step of having to use tape or anything like that. :thumbup:

Texas Yellow Cap


Lucy Golden Teacher



i'll add a note. this tub has the filters in it 3 folded since spawning. nothing has changed. there is no fan in the room. and the bulk substrate is strawnet/coir. there was no misting done prior to this flush but the surface looks like that at pinning.there was a top layer of strawnet/coir added about 1/4" depth at spawning.

sub recipe for this tub is 1 brick coir/ 1 cup strawnet/ 1 cup gyspum to 5 quarts water.

the idea is to keep these filters as is through the process. but if needed, they will be adjusted at fruiting. this is the first run ive done with no fan or little airflow.

the filters are a little more open pored than polyfil. so i think its a little different. ive attemped with a few configurations so far but tight is the 3rd configuration. the looser methods seemed to allow too much surface drying at vital points. also, the fan in the room only has a minumum medium speed. generally i use a fan with subtle low airflow. but i had to replace the pull chord a while back and home depot only had 2 speed fan replacements for a 3 speed fan. minimum fan speed is medium now. im going to use your thread to observe my surface conditions this time and hopefully contribute.

:rockon:


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Edited by eatyualive (08/06/17 09:08 PM)


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: eatyualive]
    #24536970 - 08/07/17 10:30 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Beautiful lookin' tubs :awesomenod:
Ill see if I can incorporate some of your pics with the pinky filters into the OP, thanks Eatuyualive!

Definitely a nice benefit with your pinky filters or poly over mp tape. I'm personally just a sucker for the clean sharp look of MP tape even though its a pain in the ass to cut and layer it on there :lol:


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
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Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24550364 - 08/13/17 07:57 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Just a question

Everybody are speaking about the tub begins too dry but what about the opposite problem?


I got a tub opened 3 days ago, and beads of moisture always on the surface

I dialed well so there is a good air cicle but....it seems that the micro droplets never evaporates

am I supposed to have always bead of moisture or I have to dry them up???


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: esse_jeremy]
    #24550570 - 08/13/17 09:21 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

As long as they aren't pooling it's fine.


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24553912 - 08/15/17 03:09 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:
Its fairly common for me to see beads even after fruits have matured


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24560334 - 08/17/17 09:12 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

this thread helped me alot, thank you


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: BreakTheSOB]
    #24577780 - 08/25/17 06:07 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

I always come back to this write up! So much good info from some of the best cultivators on the site. Thanks yet again!
Pics of my SyZyGy tub from today. Day 3 in fruiting.


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"The seeds that were silent all burst into bloom, and decay
And night comes so quiet, it's close on the heels of the day..."


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Buddha19er]
    #24577819 - 08/25/17 06:29 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

I'm actually so happy to hear that this write up is still helping people.
Every once in a while I see it mentioned or someone messages me and I'm surprised because it doesn't get much action or exposure on the boards.
Thanks for taking the time to drop a line in here guys


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24578502 - 08/25/17 05:33 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

I'm using it to get my monos dialed too...Going to get some micropore at Shoppers today. Fuck polyfill. Thanks man.


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Offlineesse_jeremy
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24578627 - 08/25/17 06:45 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

I followed this little advices and I get my first SECOND flush ever.


ty a lot for this tread, finally I've found the perfect way to set a tub :smile: :smile:


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things does not exist,
everything is a process, so we proceed


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24578707 - 08/25/17 07:46 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:
Cron called me out the other day for bitching about having to change microtape dressing over the holes.
Always forget how much more of a hassle dialing in poly was.


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24578724 - 08/25/17 07:53 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

I find micropore a bit of a pita as well lol.


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: eatyualive]
    #24578744 - 08/25/17 08:01 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

If I had 2" tape I would be happy but I have to carefully place two layers of 1" wide tape to cover 2" holes in my tubs so it takes a little concentration and a lot of tape cutting to acomplish.

But compared to the poineers figuring everything out by trial and error and hoping for the best, I really should never complain about any part of this hobby :lol:
Thankful to have been brought up in this golden age of cultivation


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Offlinejivangilad
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24583197 - 08/27/17 09:25 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I only recently saw this post.
I didn't use liner.
I do see condensation on top surface.  I even misted it. But I touched the sides and it felt
pretty dry. How can it be. If there is water on top why does the inner side dont take the humidity from the top layer. And can you explain what is a gauge for correct water amount.


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: jivangilad]
    #24590338 - 08/30/17 06:08 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Liners are optional and using one is just my preffered defence against side pinning

But it sounds like you either need to tigthen up poly or mist more frequently. Your substrate should never be dry


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Offlinebill bixby
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24597328 - 09/02/17 09:33 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I just read the whole thread and learned ALOT!
cheers cbk this is going to help me a shitload in the next few weeks.
I'm about to try my first ever bulk grow using mini monos this week.
I'm going to try one unmodified mini tub and one pasty mp mini tub.

thanks again


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: bill bixby]
    #24603871 - 09/05/17 03:12 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

:rockon:
Good luck man!! Mini monos are amazing.
My mini tubs usually do better than my 66qt tubs


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24604063 - 09/05/17 04:18 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:

My best flush per quart came from a mini.:awesanta:


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy]
    #24604229 - 09/05/17 05:47 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I was going tub shopping the other day. I think I found a happy medium with 50qt tubs. Will be putting them to the test soon!
Definitely think 66qt is a little too large imo


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Offlinebill bixby
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24604453 - 09/05/17 07:14 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I'm going to try two 20qt tubs to start.
so I don't have all my shrooms in one basket


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InvisibleGreen7Alchemist
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: bill bixby]
    #24646912 - 09/21/17 12:17 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

thanks.:peacesign:


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Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
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CHRIST IS KING.

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Offlinejivangilad
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24653591 - 09/23/17 08:38 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
:rockon:
Good luck man!! Mini monos are amazing.
My mini tubs usually do better than my 66qt tubs



So I assume 1 quart spawn will be a monotub.
And if I use damion5050 tek for coco coir substrate, it means I simply
should get a smaller monotub? and the amount of substrate should be calculated from damion5050 tek, as the proportion for one quart. (so if the original tek uses 5 quarts spawn, I should devide by 5).


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: jivangilad]
    #24658069 - 09/25/17 03:21 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure what you're asking.
For 66qt monotub I generally use damion5050 bucket tek with 4.5 qts spawn (6 jars)


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24658087 - 09/25/17 03:35 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I still come back and read this every month or 2. It is a damn good reference bro!


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Offlinejivangilad
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24658190 - 09/25/17 05:04 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
I'm not sure what you're asking.
For 66qt monotub I generally use damion5050 bucket tek with 4.5 qts spawn (6 jars)



I want to use just 1 quart spawn for a monotub.
I want to rely on damion5050 tek.
Main reason is  past contaminations, and I assume that smaller monotubs means
that if one contaminates not all of them will be contaminated.
So if I use 1 quart span, what should be the size of the monotub, and how much substrate - coir, vermiculite, water


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