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InvisibleComebackKid
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Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE * 100
    #23999053 - 01/10/17 06:44 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Identifying Proper Surface Moisture
When to Increase Fresh Air Exchange




Introduction

I'm noticing lately a lot of dry substrates in the cult, possibly do to the dry winter months.
A lot of substrates are drying out before pins have formed.
If you want a nice pinset you must have favourable surface conditions for pinning.
That means proper hydration and care.


Pourpose of this TEK

To have a reference for desired surface moisture and caring for your substate.

I'm also going to write a step-by-step guide on how I achieve my desired hydration and what I look for during the process.
Please note that you may need to adjust these settings to your environment but I encourage everyone to follow this TEK once through before making any changes.


What You'll Need

What I'm going to be using for demonstration:


I'm trying to give as much credit where it's due. If someone notices me using other methods please let me know so I can credit the user and link to this demonstration.

Other things you'll need:

  • Garbage bag (liner)
  • Spray bottle
  • Patience


The TEK

First half of this will be examples of desirable surface conditions for pinning.
The second will be set up in the form of a grow log with notes along the way.


Surface Moisture:

While your waiting for your pinset to fill out you want to see beads of moisture covering the entire surface of your substrate.

If/when your substrate starts to dry, give it a generous misting.
Mist from above your tub, letting the mist gently fall to the surface of your sub. It will bead up all on its own.
You want to avoid pooling of water on the surface!


These have very large beads of moisture created naturally by the heat of the mycelium. It is not absolutely nessisary to have such large beads of moisture on the surface but this is my personal preference.


Alcapone2k's substrate right before a light misting. Majority of the sub is covered in beads of moisture but the left side has evaporated and needs a little attention.


Casing your sub is an effective way to keep the surace hydrated. Notice that the myc popping up through the casing will still bead with moisture when properly hydrated.

When to Increase Fresh Air Exchange:

After your pinset has filled in you should increase FAE by opening up your poly or even cracking the lid!


A few days after I increased FAE. They were from a Multispore grow so I waited on a few stragglers before increasing FAE. A handful of mushrooms had already developed quite a bit by the time I got around to it.


It's easy for fruits that are packed this densely to keep up their own microclimate. After the pins matured even more, I popped the micropore tape right out of the top holes in this tub and even out of some of the bottom holes. There was still lots of condensation just above the caps. 


Demonstration

This is how I achieve my desired surface moisture without misting.
This method uses low passive FAE while pinset is developing.
This will be a heavely detailed demonstration and will be updated with pictures as I go.
Here we go!


Preparing Bulk Substrate:

I'm not going to get too in depth with this one. Everyone prepares their substrates differently.
I linked to Bucket TEK earlier because that is the method I use to prepare my coir.

Mix up:
  • 4.5 quarts of water
  • 2 quarts vermiculite
  • 1 brick coir (650g)

This should give you roughly 10 quarts substrate once all is said and done


Spawning to Bulk Substrate:

FEB 6 2017

The first thing I like to do is start all the clean preparations.

1. Tape monotub holes!!!!!!!!!

Very important. No we are not fruiting and spawning at the same time. I have seen too many dry tubs only to find that whoever spawned it fruited it at the same time.
You may see fruits a few days sooner that way but you risk drying out your substrate before it is ready.
I'm asking you to have some patients...

2. Line your monotub

I like to use a whole garbage bag and leave it intact. Keep it closed and lay it in your tub, lining the bottom and sides.
The tape over the holes may come in handy here. You may be able to stick the liner to the tape in the holes or you could pin it to the sides with more tape. Whatever suits your fancy.

Now we can get messy

3. Mix spawn and substrate
Set aside 1-2 quarts of bulk substrate for later.

Then dump all six jars containing 4.5 quarts of spawn into your bucket containing the remaining 9 quarts of bulk substrate.
This gives you a 1:2 spawn:sub ratio.
Mix really well with your hands making sure to get in the bottom corners of your bucket.

4. Spawn your monotub
Pour the contents of the bucket into your lined monotub. Smooth it out nice and flat but keep the substrate light and airy.
Then cover it with the remaining quart of bulk substrate.

5. Cut the liner
Take a pair of scissors and carefully cut the garbage bag along the edge of the substrate.
If you did everything right you should now have a double liner in your tub.

A double liner is useful because it creates a dry barrier between the liner and the tub.

One liner will stick to the sub as it shrinks while the other will stick to the condensation inside the monotub.
This eliminates the problem of one liner favouring both sides and creating air pockets.



Now we wait for the tub to colonize.

Feb 12 2017

6 days after spawn


Beads of water have started to form on the surface of the substrate where the myc has popped up. The beads will continue to form grow after I fruit the tub.

The sub is fully colonized under the 2 quarts of casing. You could fruit now, but I'm still going to give it a couple more days before fruiting.

Fruiting your Monotub:

Feb 14 2017

8 days after spawn


I finally decided to introduce fresh air exchange!
I usually like to wait until the mycelium completely colonizes the casing layer but I used 2 quarts for this tub so the casing is pretty thick.
8 days is long enough imo. I wouldn't wait longer than 10 anyway.


Water is beading up nicely where the myc is popping through.

I will be dialing in using Pastywhyte's default setup for his Easy Micropore Dialed in Monos.
The only difference is that I apply the first layer on the bottom holes vertically.
This makes it easier for me to remove layers of tape down the road.


Feb 19 2017

13 days after spawn
We have pins!!! I'm feeling good about this one!



Increasing Fresh Air Exchange:

Feb 23 2017

17 days after spawn
Now that my pinset has filled in I want to increase FAE to encourage growth.
A dense pinset like this will help keep up a microclimate so my sub can handle a little more FAE without drying out.



I first start by removing the micropore tape from the top holes of my tub. Then I remove a layer from the bottom.
This should allow pleanty of FAE while still keeping RH inside the tub.


This set up makes it easy to peel off one layer of tape while leaving the rest undisturbed.

If you want to take it to the next level you can crack the lid of the tub a bit. I have had success with this in the past but you'll have to keep a much closer eye on your tub.

When allowing more FAE it is important to always keep an eye on the moisture of your tub. Give your mushrooms a good mist if they start to get dry.


Harvest:

Feb 26 2017
20 days after spawn

:raveface:


Edited by ComebackKid (03/21/17 09:11 PM)


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Kizzle] * 3
    #23999226 - 01/10/17 07:27 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

I have yet to have pinning problems due to lack of evaporation. :shrug: Mind you, I only have 5 monotub grows.


It's benificial for the pinset to have beads of moisture on the sub surface during its development. You will notice as the pins grow they use up the water supplied by the beads.






--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24000357 - 01/11/17 06:55 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Is this too dry or is this moisture on the surface ok?

No pins yet ..






It's the same mono, one picutre with lightning one without :smile:


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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OfflineMartinsapin
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #24001195 - 01/11/17 01:33 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Good thread CBK.

The fourth of january I spawned my very first monotub ever.. it's and edible (Stropharia rugosoannulata their grow cycle is similar to cubes)

1.5 inches holes, tight in the botton loose on top (like Frank'S)
The air in the room is real dry, got a cool mist humidifier.
RH in the mono is high tough, theres a lot of mist on the mycelium...



--------------------
looking for a sclerotia producer print


Edited by Martinsapin (01/11/17 01:40 PM)


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24003574 - 01/12/17 09:58 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Overnight the droplets on the surface / beds of moisture disappeared because I increased FAE (some fanning).

Therefore I misted this morning and the surface moisture disappears after half a hour so I misted again. I overmisted it a bit so I tilted the whole mono to get rid of the water on the surface.

Now it seems quite ok.

But I cant establish these small droplets on the surface anymore. When I mist, the surface gets glistening wet but there are no droplets.

Am I doing something wrong or is everything fine? Is it to wet in the corners? To dry in the middle? What can I do?


Here some pictures:




These black parts of the substrate on the three right pictures are only shadows from my arms holding the camera :wink:


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


Edited by AlCapone2k (01/12/17 09:59 AM)


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #24008871 - 01/14/17 04:33 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Hey guys,

what do you think?




--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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OfflineThedillestpickle
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24023059 - 01/19/17 02:16 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

I never dump monos until I see mold.  Now we'll never know lol

My goal is to attain this surface moisture without ever misting.  Some combination of fruiting late, packing polyfil tight, waiting for beads, then loosening out polyfil/removing top polyfil seems to be getting pretty good surface moisture for me.

I also run a humidifier in the grow room at 60% RH to create a more humid envronment in the grow-room.  Easier to fill up a 1 gallon jug every 2 days than to constantly be looking at when to mist.



Here's that tub coming along CBK

I do wonder what's lurking beneath that patch with no pins...


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24030305 - 01/22/17 11:49 AM (7 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

AlCapone2k said:
Why what? :smile:




haha.

i think its useful and people always ask about 'should i fruit' so i bumped the thread for others
who didnt see it.

also to upload a pic.

this is what your 100% colonized substrates should look before fruiting. these had no misting.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24033419 - 01/23/17 02:38 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

what brand of coco??

on the left is a brand from the local garden supply joint.. nice people:thumbup:

the one on the right is ecoearth from random megashit mart. asshole everywhere.

anyway the 'premo' brand is $1 more but holds a solid 5qaurts everytime.
the ecoearth barely hold 4.5.

the ecoearth even weighs slightly more..:shrug:
vseco


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: AlCapone2k] * 1
    #24050772 - 01/30/17 04:53 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Here some pictures of a - in my opinion - nice surface moisture. Pins are forming, still very small, but I think tomorrow or the day after I will increase FAE a bit by moving the upper Micropore-Tape of the upper holes :smile:



--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24070172 - 02/06/17 03:50 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Updated the grow log portion

FEB 6 2017

Spawned a 66qt monotub with:
4.5 quarts PFC grain spawn
1 brick coir
2 quarts verm
4.5 quarts water



I used 2 quarts of the bulk sub as a casing layer.

Havent grown this variety before. Excited to see how the PF Classic performs


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 1
    #24085919 - 02/12/17 08:24 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Feb 12 2017

6 days after spawn


Beads of water have started to form on the surface of the substrate where the myc has popped through. The drops will continue to form grow after I fruit the tub.

The sub is fully colonized under the 2 quarts of casing but I'm still going to give it a couple more days before fruiting.


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24103986 - 02/19/17 08:59 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Two updates:

Feb 14 2017

8 days after spawn


I finally decided to introduce fresh air exchange!
I usually like to wait until the mycelium completely colonizes the casing layer but I used 2 quarts for this tub so the casing is pretty thick.
8 days is long enough imo. I wouldn't wait longer than 10 anyway.


Water is beading up nicely where the myc is popping through.

Feb 19 2017

13 days after spawn
Just checked on my tub. We have pins!!!


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy]
    #24104575 - 02/20/17 06:37 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks dude! It was knotting up pretty good by day 10 even to the point where one of the cluster of knots had taken a bit of shape.



It's impossible to see all the knots due to flash but you can definitely make out some primordia back there.

Just goes to show the power of FAE as a pinning trigger I'd say


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: mushboy]
    #24112222 - 02/22/17 10:17 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Increased FAE today
Updated OP



--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: magicMerlin]
    #24121939 - 02/26/17 06:47 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)


Harvested this morning :awetongue:


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid]
    #24139125 - 03/05/17 03:52 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Was just rereading some of this thread and realized you have been casing all your tubs... ahh I forgot about that.

Spawning a couple tubs today, so I'm going to remember to case with 2 qt CVG

meanwhile, here's a tub I spawned 10 days ago, uncased.  I'm stoked to see how this tub turns out because the bulk sub contains 2 full gallons of water.   



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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: ComebackKid] * 3
    #24533598 - 08/05/17 08:47 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

i know this threads a little old. but i love this thread. thought i would post some pictures. i don't really observe the conditions when i do my tubs with the way i run them. but this is a good example of pinning with the beads of moisture on the surface. cool thread comebackkid! what i find so cool about it is, that in my environment i run, i pretty much do this same thing. my environment does it all without any effort. but its a good thing to look at what is providing ques to your fruiting environmental changes. once you dial in your setup, you shouldn't have to do any work. it appears you colonize with tape or what not. i don't do this. i keep poly or pinky filters in tighter. this removes the step of having to use tape or anything like that. :thumbup:

Texas Yellow Cap


Lucy Golden Teacher



i'll add a note. this tub has the filters in it 3 folded since spawning. nothing has changed. there is no fan in the room. and the bulk substrate is strawnet/coir. there was no misting done prior to this flush but the surface looks like that at pinning.there was a top layer of strawnet/coir added about 1/4" depth at spawning.

sub recipe for this tub is 1 brick coir/ 1 cup strawnet/ 1 cup gyspum to 5 quarts water.

the idea is to keep these filters as is through the process. but if needed, they will be adjusted at fruiting. this is the first run ive done with no fan or little airflow.

the filters are a little more open pored than polyfil. so i think its a little different. ive attemped with a few configurations so far but tight is the 3rd configuration. the looser methods seemed to allow too much surface drying at vital points. also, the fan in the room only has a minumum medium speed. generally i use a fan with subtle low airflow. but i had to replace the pull chord a while back and home depot only had 2 speed fan replacements for a 3 speed fan. minimum fan speed is medium now. im going to use your thread to observe my surface conditions this time and hopefully contribute.

:rockon:


--------------------
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Edited by eatyualive (08/06/17 12:08 PM)


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24553912 - 08/14/17 06:09 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:
Its fairly common for me to see beads even after fruits have matured


--------------------
:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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OfflineBuddha19er
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Re: Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE [Re: BreakTheSOB]
    #24577780 - 08/24/17 09:07 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I always come back to this write up! So much good info from some of the best cultivators on the site. Thanks yet again!
Pics of my SyZyGy tub from today. Day 3 in fruiting.


--------------------

"The seeds that were silent all burst into bloom, and decay
And night comes so quiet, it's close on the heels of the day..."


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